Is the IAM now more concerned with money than safety?
Discussion
Several worrying things have started to become apparent about the IAM.
I was at our local group committe meeting last night and several items under discussion gave me cause for concern.
1. "do we want to pay £35 to have our chief observer (currently has a RoSPA gold and IAM pass) tested to become a 'senior observer'?"
It seems that we give the IAM £35 and get absolutely nothing back for it apart from hassle.
The IAM say that it is the DSA pulling the strings here. The DSA say that it is nothing to do with them since observers are all volunteers, and are not paid.
I know £35 is not a lot, but paying out for nothing is no way to carry on. We can use the money better - it pays for at least another place on a skid pan course for instance.
2. This £25 assesment drive thing the IAM are offering seems a little strange. Our group has done this for free long before I even passed my L test! Note that the local group who carry out the paid-for assesment drive see very little, if anything, of the £25. So people now have to pay for something that was always free, and a good way of enticing in members?
3. Skills for life has wiped out our member intake. Quite simply, we are situated in a poor area of the country. The average yearly wage is about £15k, and apart from that we are actively trying to recruit 17/18 year olds who may still be at school, so have little spare cash. We simply don't get too many members willing and able to pay £85 up front. (I know that for many of us it's less than a week's petrol).
The IAM are not at all sympathetic to this, and don't seem to even try to understand the problem.
4. Various IAM representitives have told us that "We're doing it wrong, we should be putting people in for test sooner" and that "our pass rate is unfeasibly high". These statements don't make sense to me. Unless the IAM want more money in retests. Of course, this could be simply be people speaking out of turn.
5. At a recent regional meeting, our representitive had to remind the head office representaive that we are all volunteers. When it's not fun or it becomes too much like work (but without the salary), we are likely to go away. Many of the other volunteers seemed to agree.
This list is not exhaustive BTW, however I do want people to read the post!!
So, is the IAM (now IAM Ltd, isn't it) slowly becoming more concerned with profit than safety now? Or am I reading in to things that aren't there?
Thanks.
I was at our local group committe meeting last night and several items under discussion gave me cause for concern.
1. "do we want to pay £35 to have our chief observer (currently has a RoSPA gold and IAM pass) tested to become a 'senior observer'?"
It seems that we give the IAM £35 and get absolutely nothing back for it apart from hassle.
The IAM say that it is the DSA pulling the strings here. The DSA say that it is nothing to do with them since observers are all volunteers, and are not paid.
I know £35 is not a lot, but paying out for nothing is no way to carry on. We can use the money better - it pays for at least another place on a skid pan course for instance.
2. This £25 assesment drive thing the IAM are offering seems a little strange. Our group has done this for free long before I even passed my L test! Note that the local group who carry out the paid-for assesment drive see very little, if anything, of the £25. So people now have to pay for something that was always free, and a good way of enticing in members?
3. Skills for life has wiped out our member intake. Quite simply, we are situated in a poor area of the country. The average yearly wage is about £15k, and apart from that we are actively trying to recruit 17/18 year olds who may still be at school, so have little spare cash. We simply don't get too many members willing and able to pay £85 up front. (I know that for many of us it's less than a week's petrol).
The IAM are not at all sympathetic to this, and don't seem to even try to understand the problem.
4. Various IAM representitives have told us that "We're doing it wrong, we should be putting people in for test sooner" and that "our pass rate is unfeasibly high". These statements don't make sense to me. Unless the IAM want more money in retests. Of course, this could be simply be people speaking out of turn.
5. At a recent regional meeting, our representitive had to remind the head office representaive that we are all volunteers. When it's not fun or it becomes too much like work (but without the salary), we are likely to go away. Many of the other volunteers seemed to agree.
This list is not exhaustive BTW, however I do want people to read the post!!
So, is the IAM (now IAM Ltd, isn't it) slowly becoming more concerned with profit than safety now? Or am I reading in to things that aren't there?
Thanks.
Fair points - well made.
I don't think that the IAM are in this for profit by any means. If they wanted to make money they'd be offering "Ride Drive" style says at £300 a pop. There again - they say they want to get into doing things for "Time Poor, Cash Rich" people so maybe, maybe...
Skill for Life is very good for IAM central. I believe we can still offer Associate membership, though? SFL is also discounted for the young to about £70 I think - not cheap enough but at least cheaper.
The reason youngsters aren't signing up isn't that the £70 is too much - "Pass Plus" costs far more. The problem is that
1) They don't know who we are
2) When they find out the first question is "What's in it for me?"
3) IAM Select Insurance is SHIT - they can't save money.
4) All the other benefits are secondary to a teenager. They only care as to whether or not its going to save them money. Until the IAM can use real "mass purchasing" power to get a *deal* for youngsters its going to be hard to sign them up.
Which is a shame as they are the ones who are dying. The death rate for 18-25 year olds is APALLING. Yes I know its self-inflicted but that's what we're trying to FIX!
We have decided as a local group to offer free lectures to schools and technical colleges. We're aiming at talking to 16 year olds....BEFORE..they pass their driving test. The aim? To scare the living shit out of them to the point that they understand that NOT doing the IAM test is like saying: "Hello. I want to die."
We'll see if it works.
..and on to...
Senior Observer costing £35? Bargain. That pays for the test. What's it worth? Who can say. I'm considering it myself as I'll get £35 quid's worth of Observer training from a Class 1 - an hour an half in the car with a Class 1 and an Associate. Should be fun. It also qualifies me (in my Group anyway) to do "Cross Checks" - which ordinary Observers should not do. What is that worth? Consistency across Groups. Good for the IAM. Good for the Associates. Not so good for the bloke forking out £35 but there you go...
I don't think that the IAM are in this for profit by any means. If they wanted to make money they'd be offering "Ride Drive" style says at £300 a pop. There again - they say they want to get into doing things for "Time Poor, Cash Rich" people so maybe, maybe...
Skill for Life is very good for IAM central. I believe we can still offer Associate membership, though? SFL is also discounted for the young to about £70 I think - not cheap enough but at least cheaper.
The reason youngsters aren't signing up isn't that the £70 is too much - "Pass Plus" costs far more. The problem is that
1) They don't know who we are
2) When they find out the first question is "What's in it for me?"
3) IAM Select Insurance is SHIT - they can't save money.
4) All the other benefits are secondary to a teenager. They only care as to whether or not its going to save them money. Until the IAM can use real "mass purchasing" power to get a *deal* for youngsters its going to be hard to sign them up.
Which is a shame as they are the ones who are dying. The death rate for 18-25 year olds is APALLING. Yes I know its self-inflicted but that's what we're trying to FIX!
We have decided as a local group to offer free lectures to schools and technical colleges. We're aiming at talking to 16 year olds....BEFORE..they pass their driving test. The aim? To scare the living shit out of them to the point that they understand that NOT doing the IAM test is like saying: "Hello. I want to die."
We'll see if it works.
..and on to...
Senior Observer costing £35? Bargain. That pays for the test. What's it worth? Who can say. I'm considering it myself as I'll get £35 quid's worth of Observer training from a Class 1 - an hour an half in the car with a Class 1 and an Associate. Should be fun. It also qualifies me (in my Group anyway) to do "Cross Checks" - which ordinary Observers should not do. What is that worth? Consistency across Groups. Good for the IAM. Good for the Associates. Not so good for the bloke forking out £35 but there you go...
We have 3 class 1s on the books. Training can be internal for us for zero cost. 
I concede the point about consistancy of training though.
We have good links with the local council and they plug us at their better driving courses... This helps with the "what's in it for me?" thing. I'm only just over 25 myself. I considered advanced training vital for purchasing a "fast" car.
The IAM are making it difficult for us to put in associates for test.
Tell me about IAM insurance! I run 2 rare grp 20 cars. They don't want to know... I raised this point at a regional meeting and got lots of support from members, but none from the head office people.
Don't get me started on Pass plus - it's a political game as far as I can see.
I concede the point about consistancy of training though.
We have good links with the local council and they plug us at their better driving courses... This helps with the "what's in it for me?" thing. I'm only just over 25 myself. I considered advanced training vital for purchasing a "fast" car.
The IAM are making it difficult for us to put in associates for test.
Tell me about IAM insurance! I run 2 rare grp 20 cars. They don't want to know... I raised this point at a regional meeting and got lots of support from members, but none from the head office people.
Don't get me started on Pass plus - it's a political game as far as I can see.
not sure if this is right, but it seems to me that there is quite a big gap for a teenager between the test (with or without passplus) and what happens at IAM. This is from experience with one teenager and one group so it is by no means authoritative! Having learned to drive at the under 17 car club, my daughter is well versed and quite skilled in roadcraft (and well used to being observed). Even so, she found the IAM experience not great.
So along with making it more attractive for teenagers to join (I have some ideas about that, but they are not relevant here), it would need to be an experience designed for the audience - teenagers just passed, excess of bravado over skill, low tolerance of stuff that doesn't catch their attention etc.
What's wrong with pass plus btw? I have no view, just interested.
Graham
So along with making it more attractive for teenagers to join (I have some ideas about that, but they are not relevant here), it would need to be an experience designed for the audience - teenagers just passed, excess of bravado over skill, low tolerance of stuff that doesn't catch their attention etc.
What's wrong with pass plus btw? I have no view, just interested.
Graham
I passed my IAM test in 1997 and have just completed 1 years service on the local IAM committee. I can say that, without doubt, it has been the biggest waste of my time, bar none.
I've stepped down with a view to getting involved with something that is actually beneficial to improving road safety.
I've stepped down with a view to getting involved with something that is actually beneficial to improving road safety.
Philbes said:
This thread is rather worrying as I only recently paid my £85 and have my 2nd observed drive on Saturday.
I was also surprised by the announcement of a charged-for assessment drive. My local group offered me this free.
In the circumstances I would hope you'll not worry about this aspect. You've paid your money and started the process now.
Just concentrate on getting the best out of the observed drives and look forward to success on test day.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Don said:
3) IAM Select Insurance is SHIT - they can't save money.
Amen, Brother Don. I've been an IAM member for over 9 years and I don't even bother calling Select these days. What's the point of a discount when the discounted amount is still laughably over the next cheapest quote and light-years from the cheapest quote? 
Fortunately I didn't do the IAM training to reduce my insurance cost, but as you say, this is all younger drivers are going to be interested in.
Philbes said:
Thanks Dave.
I will be carrying on and taking the 'test'. It was more the long term outlook I was concerned about as it is my intention to stick around and try to make a contribution to the organisation.
In that case it becomes more relevant later on, but not just now. I would suggest you try to put it out of your mind for the time being.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
In that case it becomes more relevant later on, but not just now. I would suggest you try to put it out of your mind for the time being.
Very wise.
For the record - I do not believe that HQ think the IAM is in this for the money. If they were there are more profitable things to do than run "Groups" and yet they do.
However. HQ clearly have a problem in that grass roots members (active ones whose opinions count) are not totally happy. I suggest communicating this to HQ and making sure they're well aware. They can't fix a problem if they don't know it exists...
Surely fewer collisions = lower insurance premium?
Perhaps some people in the insurance industry think that an IAM pass isn't worth that much?
Apparently the TRL conducted some research into advanced driving which was not favourable to the IAM. When IAM HQ found out the apparently pushed for a good day to bury bad news. Allegedly.
Perhaps some people in the insurance industry think that an IAM pass isn't worth that much?
Apparently the TRL conducted some research into advanced driving which was not favourable to the IAM. When IAM HQ found out the apparently pushed for a good day to bury bad news. Allegedly.
ipsg.glf said:
Apparently the TRL conducted some research into advanced driving which was not favourable to the IAM. When IAM HQ found out the apparently pushed for a good day to bury bad news. Allegedly.
Really? I thought the substantiated claim was that an IAM pass was (proportionally) 20% less likely to have a prang and that when they did have prangs they were less serious?
I must go try and find that claim and see what its based on...
ipsg.glf said:
Surely fewer collisions = lower insurance premium?
Not completely. Competition is an issue. IAM Select appear to have little bargaining power with the underwriters. Or are just crap at it or something.
Its a sad state of affairs that ELEPHANT offer more discount for an IAM pass than IAM Select do!
ipsg.glf said:
Perhaps some people in the insurance industry think that an IAM pass isn't worth that much?
Maybe maybe. Is it worth as much as ten years accident free driving statistically - probably not!
Hello there,
Here are a few thoughts ...
- As far as I'm aware, the IAM isn't in it for the money. For example, Skills for Life actually costs more than 85 quid, so it's subsidised by head office.
- 25 pounds isn't an unreasonable sum of money for many people. Giving something for free can devalue it. When you actively have to choose to pay for something, you value it more.
- The IAM has (finally!) got together a decent strategy and some proper goals. However, it needs funds to achieve its strategic goals.
- IAM Select isn't always cheaper, because the IAM's size (only 120,000 members) isn't sufficiently large to be much bargaining power. The discount is generally based on negotiation with the insurance companies, so bargaining power is essential.
- Please be careful not to throw in the woes of car mambers and bike members. Nearly all bike insurers offer around 5-20% annual discount for an IAM pass. Equally, bike group's generally don't have the old Committee issues of car groups. IAM bike groups have little difficulty in attracting new riders too. It's not hard to see why bikers are the one growing section of the IAM.
>> Edited by SVS on Monday 22 May 15:48
Here are a few thoughts ...
- As far as I'm aware, the IAM isn't in it for the money. For example, Skills for Life actually costs more than 85 quid, so it's subsidised by head office.
- 25 pounds isn't an unreasonable sum of money for many people. Giving something for free can devalue it. When you actively have to choose to pay for something, you value it more.
- The IAM has (finally!) got together a decent strategy and some proper goals. However, it needs funds to achieve its strategic goals.
- IAM Select isn't always cheaper, because the IAM's size (only 120,000 members) isn't sufficiently large to be much bargaining power. The discount is generally based on negotiation with the insurance companies, so bargaining power is essential.
- Please be careful not to throw in the woes of car mambers and bike members. Nearly all bike insurers offer around 5-20% annual discount for an IAM pass. Equally, bike group's generally don't have the old Committee issues of car groups. IAM bike groups have little difficulty in attracting new riders too. It's not hard to see why bikers are the one growing section of the IAM.
>> Edited by SVS on Monday 22 May 15:48
ipsg.glf said:
I'd be very interested to know exactly what some gets for their £85 SFL package. I can't quite see how IAM HQ can subsidise given that the actual observing is done by local groups for free.
SFL:
One year's IAM membership.
One year's local Group membership.
One test fee.
From the end punter's perspective they also get as much tuition as they need. The truth is that SFL just about pays the fees that you would pay if you joined all that lot up seperately but it lumps it into one easy payment. People who just join the local Group haven't invested much...whereas £85 is an incentive to want to complete the course and take the test...as it is "free" anyway...after you've paid up for SFL.
SVS said:
IAM bike groups have little difficulty in attracting new riders too. It's not hard to see why bikers are the one growing section of the IAM.
Something the bike groups seem to have got exactly right is the social side of things. Very, very few bikers travel by bike as their only means of transport. For the majority the bike is either a "toy" or is a combined "toy" and transportation device. Nearly all bikers are bike enthusiasts - rather than the bike being something they're forced into by circumstances.
This means the groups are run for and by enthusiasts.
If you are an enthusiastic biker what better than to go for a convoy ride out with some mates? Even better - some mates who you know are skilled and have a really good attitude towards biking safely. The groups combine the safety and learning aspect quite brilliantly with a social side that the car groups simply cannot compete with.
They can't compete for two reasons I can see:
1) The demographic of who joins up is totally different. They're not all motoring enthusiasts by any means.
2) Convoy runs are far harder to manage with cars.
Others (ahem) manage convoy runs by driving significantly faster than everyone else and overtaking a lot. Not something the IAM Groups can really do when they don't drive over the speed limit...(ahem)
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