Discussion
roundabout question Is there any hard a fast rules on this?
Two lanes entering roundabout only one exit lane on all exits.
left lane going left?
right lane going right?
Straight on in which lane....
Followed three cars this morning all moved across into lane 2 on approach dual carriageway off a previous roundabout. then on final approach to roundabout in question moved into lane 1 then all proceeded to go straight over the roundabout.
I was following them in lane two as they moved over i continued in the lane onto the roundabout only to be squeezed out and forced to brake on the roundabout to prevent any problems.
hindsight tells me i should have waited until i was 100% sure all was safe to proceed at the speed i wanted but with the lane position as described, i felt sure at the time all was ok. This is a roundabout that is set to the right of the road, giving the visual impression at least to me that the right hand lane is right and straight.
Is there a hard and fast rule, or just pay attention and expect people to do what you dont expect them to do?
Two lanes entering roundabout only one exit lane on all exits.
left lane going left?
right lane going right?
Straight on in which lane....
Followed three cars this morning all moved across into lane 2 on approach dual carriageway off a previous roundabout. then on final approach to roundabout in question moved into lane 1 then all proceeded to go straight over the roundabout.
I was following them in lane two as they moved over i continued in the lane onto the roundabout only to be squeezed out and forced to brake on the roundabout to prevent any problems.
hindsight tells me i should have waited until i was 100% sure all was safe to proceed at the speed i wanted but with the lane position as described, i felt sure at the time all was ok. This is a roundabout that is set to the right of the road, giving the visual impression at least to me that the right hand lane is right and straight.
Is there a hard and fast rule, or just pay attention and expect people to do what you dont expect them to do?
7db said:
I'm sure Stressed Dave will be along shortly to remind us not to go round roundabouts with anyone else at all.
Damn straight. Never, ever overtake on a roundabout. Position yourself as far away as practical from everyone else. People do strange, unpredicatable things at roundabouts.
Don said:
I'm sure Stressed Dave will be along shortly to remind us not to go round roundabouts with anyone else at all.
Damn straight. Never, ever overtake on a roundabout. Position yourself as far away as practical from everyone else. People do strange, unpredicatable things at roundabouts.
If you are next to them apply the brake to make sure you are not. No one really has the right of way from lane one or two, so it is only ever going to end in tears and an argument!
Cheers.
Steve
Code Monkey said:In the absence of signage or lane markings, the general rule-of-thumb is to use the left-hand lane for left turns or going straight, and the right-hand lane for right turns only.
Two lanes entering roundabout only one exit lane on all exits.
left lane going left?
right lane going right?
Straight on in which lane....
Oh, and try not to negotiate a round-about side-by-side with another vehicle. It is likely that your precision driving skills will be tested with panel-scraping unpleasantness.
>> Edited by Jungles on Thursday 25th May 10:27
Code Monkey said:
Two lanes entering roundabout only one exit lane on all exits.
left lane going left?
right lane going right?
Why, on re-reading, am I reminded of Dirty Harry:-
Two lanes going into a roundabout, punk, and I know what you're asking yourself. Did that lorry take up two lanes, or was it just one? I kinda forgotten myself. But seeng as this is the A404, the most powerful dual carriageway roundabout in the world, you have to be asking yourself one question. Do I feel lucky?
Well do ya?
Perhaps it's just me...
at Dave 
As I recall, the highway code's words on roundabouts are 'suggestions' as opposed to 'you musts' (which are therefore legal requirements). As such, there is no LAW to say what you should do on a roundabout; I recall the test case (on PH) being an old guy turning right from a left hand lane to be swiped by the car on the inside and, despite it being a foolish and ridiculous move, the insurance not blaming the old guy who turned right from the left lane.
As StressedDave has said before; never enter a roundabout with anybody else as people do do weird and wonderful things - just make sure you are not there when they do.
One thing I have noticed is that more and more there are markings (be they on the road or signage) suggesting which lanes to take - is this because of poor discipline/crashes? Or simply to improve traffic flow by controlling the straight on left/right lane question?
TonyHetherington said:
One thing I have noticed is that more and more there are markings (be they on the road or signage) suggesting which lanes to take - is this because of poor discipline/crashes? Or simply to improve traffic flow by controlling the straight on left/right lane question?
Bit of both I suspect. People get confused and markings allow them to concentrate on observing traffic than actually making concious choice.
As many roundabouts have different and random layouts and the exit's number of lanes isn't always visible thay're useful for ensuring that it's possible to fully utilise as much road space as possible.
While many post here that you shouldn't be on a roundabout next to another person it's not always practical or possible in very busy scenarios. Some of the roundabouts on the south circ (A205) are good examples - you'd end up waiting all day to get a space where you're not alongside someone. Most of these roundabouts have very clearly marked approach lanes, marked lanes on the roundabout and on exit so it should be simple for numpties to keep in lane. Reality differs significantly though.
7db said:
I'm sure Stressed Dave will be along shortly to remind us not to go round roundabouts with anyone else at all.
Oh, all right then...
Remember, don't go around a roundabout with anyone else
In any case, you really want to be using all the lanes on entry and exit to have fun (or in my case negotiation without steering). And no, I'm not joking - if you consider you want the car to be as stable as possible then you want the widest radii so as to not need to rely on the grip of the tyres.
And if you want my other recommendation, the best place in the world for driver training is Milton Keynes (in particular the A421 and the other d/c spine roads that run through it) - you have roundabouts with three lanes on entry and two on exit so you can practice to your hearts content and the the other traffic around you makes it really easy to get the system of car control (or whichever system you happen to be using) down pat and at reasonable speeds (they're ALL NSL roads)
von - it's an order of magnitude more fun than the A507 leading into it, if you're allowed any leeway in route selection...
Which all reminds me, we need to go to MK one day, Dave.
My top tip from having been working on my roundabout technique recently is that there's just as much of a threat to traffic coming in from the left and not yielding (because they don't expect you to be going *quite* that fast on entry), as there is to it the stuff that has priority from the right.
My other top tip is that you don't want to practice any of this at Stirling (despite the fact that it appears to be a perfectly set-up RAB for it) as there are any number of other nutters coming in and out of Hendon...
My top tip from having been working on my roundabout technique recently is that there's just as much of a threat to traffic coming in from the left and not yielding (because they don't expect you to be going *quite* that fast on entry), as there is to it the stuff that has priority from the right.
My other top tip is that you don't want to practice any of this at Stirling (despite the fact that it appears to be a perfectly set-up RAB for it) as there are any number of other nutters coming in and out of Hendon...
TonyHetherington said:And nobody ever looks at these markings. A roundabout near to me is a big three-lane jobbie. The entry to this roundabout is three lanes wide, with lanes 1&2 being painted as straight ahead. Lane 3 is marked for right turn.
One thing I have noticed is that more and more there are markings (be they on the road or signage) suggesting which lanes to take - is this because of poor discipline/crashes? Or simply to improve traffic flow by controlling the straight on left/right lane question?
Well, pretty much everybody uses lanes 2&3 for straight ahead. If I use lane 1 it confuses the hell out of people.
7db said:
Which all reminds me, we need to go to MK one day, Dave.
Drop me an e-mail - Mondays and Fridays are good as I'm busy teaching on the other days
7db said:
My top tip from having been working on my roundabout technique recently is that there's just as much of a threat to traffic coming in from the left and not yielding (because they don't expect you to be going *quite* that fast on entry), as there is to it the stuff that has priority from the right.
Slow in, really, really fast out...
7db said:
My other top tip is that you don't want to practice any of this at Stirling (despite the fact that it appears to be a perfectly set-up RAB for it) as there are any number of other nutters coming in and out of Hendon...
The problem with Stirling Corner is the topography of the roundabout and the height of the armco for certain cars (like my MX-5). However, you can still have loads of fun on the exit because of the tightening radius if you continue on the A1.
TonyHetherington said:
As I recall, the highway code's words on roundabouts are 'suggestions' as opposed to 'you musts' (which are therefore legal requirements). As such, there is no LAW to say what you should do on a roundabout; I recall the test case (on PH) being an old guy turning right from a left hand lane to be swiped by the car on the inside and, despite it being a foolish and ridiculous move, the insurance not blaming the old guy who turned right from the left lane.
As StressedDave has said before; never enter a roundabout with anybody else as people do do weird and wonderful things - just make sure you are not there when they do.
One thing I have noticed is that more and more there are markings (be they on the road or signage) suggesting which lanes to take - is this because of poor discipline/crashes? Or simply to improve traffic flow by controlling the straight on left/right lane question?
If you are on the inside of ther roundabout, it is your responsibilty to make sure you can get from the inside & to your exit safely in good time.
As has already been said, be ahead or behind, but not beside.
StressedDave said:
I'm sure Stressed Dave will be along shortly to remind us not to go round roundabouts with anyone else at all.
Oh, all right then...
Remember, don't go around a roundabout with anyone else
In any case, you really want to be using all the lanes on entry and exit to have fun (or in my case negotiation without steering). And no, I'm not joking - if you consider you want the car to be as stable as possible then you want the widest radii so as to not need to rely on the grip of the tyres.
And if you want my other recommendation, the best place in the world for driver training is Milton Keynes (in particular the A421 and the other d/c spine roads that run through it) - you have roundabouts with three lanes on entry and two on exit so you can practice to your hearts content and the the other traffic around you makes it really easy to get the system of car control (or whichever system you happen to be using) down pat and at reasonable speeds (they're ALL NSL roads)
von - it's an order of magnitude more fun than the A507 leading into it, if you're allowed any leeway in route selection...
I already use MK for RA's *often*, was there today infact.
(I can go where ever I like, not tied to set routes) Just make sure you keep left if you are going there.
My little footnote (advice) for others
If apexing on approach (to n/s kerb) the tendency is to ease off the brake too early & not lose enough speed, because you are apexing (& looking at daylight so to speak). Stay with the brake, against what seems the natural urge to ease off it earlier. If you are heading towards the roundabout in lane 2 it naturally encourages you to keep braking, but if you apex & can see daylight people tend to ease off it too early & carry too much speed in.
The safe speed for the roundabout is dictated more by the amount of steering right (around the roundabout you have to do) than the line of entry. You should be tickling the throttle as you steer right, squeezing as you then steer left & then firmer acceleration when you have the wheels straight on the exit side.
The focus for apexing on road, should be balance & poise, NOT speed.
You apex to minimise your steering inputs & the lateral forces acting on the vehicle as a result.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 25th May 17:15
I don't think it's been said, but taking a position in lane one when going straight on exposes you to risk of faster traffic crossing your path as they exit from the inside of the roundabout through to the first junction you are about to pass.
(*lots of fun to be had be towing tailgaters onto the roundabout at higher speeds than they are capable of....)
(*lots of fun to be had be towing tailgaters onto the roundabout at higher speeds than they are capable of....)
bor said:
I don't think it's been said, but taking a position in lane one when going straight on exposes you to risk of faster traffic crossing your path as they exit from the inside of the roundabout through to the first junction you are about to pass.
(*lots of fun to be had be towing tailgaters onto the roundabout at higher speeds than they are capable of....)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but are you anticipating difficulties from somebody already on the roundabout, in which case should you not be making provision for them to go first anyhow? If you do this, and keep a bit of free space around you, why should there be any problem?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Hi Dave,
Two examples,
1. Car travelling behind you at higher speed, enters roundabout behind/alongside you and makes assumption that you are committing to exit first left and intends to make an O/T as you both exit left (don't ask me about this.Just.Don't. :]
2. Faster traffic already on roundabout catches you as you accel from standstill and makes assumption/error crossing you path.
Neither being your fault, but obviously worth avoiding if poss.
Regards,
BOR
Two examples,
1. Car travelling behind you at higher speed, enters roundabout behind/alongside you and makes assumption that you are committing to exit first left and intends to make an O/T as you both exit left (don't ask me about this.Just.Don't. :]
2. Faster traffic already on roundabout catches you as you accel from standstill and makes assumption/error crossing you path.
Neither being your fault, but obviously worth avoiding if poss.
Regards,
BOR
bor said:
1. Car travelling behind you at higher speed, enters roundabout behind/alongside you and makes assumption that you are committing to exit first left and intends to make an O/T as you both exit left (don't ask me about this.Just.Don't. :]
Hmm... does this fall nicely into the never, ever, ever (and I really mean this) turn with any other vehicle on a roundabout? Never assume as it makes an ASS of U and ME...
BOR said:
2. Faster traffic already on roundabout catches you as you accel from standstill and makes assumption/error crossing you path.
And this one falls into the grouping of 'I'm going to drive in such a way that I'm not dependent on another driver either doing something or not doing something'. An advanced driver should be aware of the fact that other drivers do unexpected things all the time (I've had my share of people turning right at roundabouts from lane 1) and plan so that it doesn't matter. And I'm not trying to sound sanctimonious - I've had my share of complete
-ups over the years. Perhaps we should be like airline pilots - any landing you walk away from (or at least are carried by lithe stewardesses) is considered a success.Hi Dave,
yes this definitely comes under your advice of not positioning yourself next to another car on the roundabout(advice I wished I'd taken notice of twenty years ago, LOL).
But although it's good advice for driver no.2 closing on driver no.1 it doesn't include any defensive advice for driver no.1, in whose case I maintain that you should avoid exposing yourself by always being in lane 2 (unless completely obvious from road markings etc.)
BOR
yes this definitely comes under your advice of not positioning yourself next to another car on the roundabout(advice I wished I'd taken notice of twenty years ago, LOL).
But although it's good advice for driver no.2 closing on driver no.1 it doesn't include any defensive advice for driver no.1, in whose case I maintain that you should avoid exposing yourself by always being in lane 2 (unless completely obvious from road markings etc.)
BOR
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