RE: Got problems with roundabouts?
Monday 19th June 2006
High WycombeThe Institute of Advanced Motoring has issued some advice for motorists who have problems with roundabouts -- which often seems like it's everyone else...
Got problems with roundabouts?
IAM issues handy hints for drivers
High Wycombe
It is not uncommon to come across drivers who go out of their way to avoid certain roundabouts. Even experienced drivers consider them to be “high risk” locations, and feel uncomfortable with them, no matter what size the roundabout is.
The single most common mistake at a roundabout is only looking to your right as you approach, because that is where you expect traffic to come from. But what about the car ahead of you -- can he see something that you can’t?
It is better to gather as much information as you can -- start to check to your right, straight ahead, to your left, and all your mirrors as you approach the roundabout. By carrying out your observations in this sweeping/scanning motion, you are more likely to pick up if the car in front decides not to go for some reason.
The classic rear end shunt, caused by the driver ahead not going when you think he’s going, can thus be avoided. Help yourself further by keeping a good gap between you and the vehicle waiting to get on, so if he changes his mind half way you have room to stop without compromising yourself.
Drivers often approach the roundabout with the plan to continue unless they have to stop because of other traffic. The problem here is that you may notice another car just as you get close to the roundabout, but you are more likely to speed up, opting to “take a chance” because it is difficult to change your mind at the last moment.
A slightly different, but very much more effective mental outlook is to approach the roundabout thinking “plan to stop but look to go”.
As you scan, remember you are looking for gaps, as well as vehicles.
And once you are on the roundabout, remember not everybody will position themselves correctly to get off: you could find somebody sweeping across you to get to their exit. Remember that the lorry or bus needs lots of room, and try not to be actually alongside it. On a mini roundabout, if you are approach at the same time as an oncoming vehicle, clearly indicate you intention and then do a visual check -- try to catch the driver’s eye and send a message to avoid the ambiguous situation when nobody is quite sure who should go first.
Some useful information there -- but the essential skill is planning ahead, which so few drivers appear to be able or willing to do...
Discussion
The idea is to reduce visibility encouraging drivers to slow/stop rather than looking way ahead and ploughing through. The end result though is that you have no idea what is coming and have to take a chance anyway.
For those in the Wycombe area (picking up on that lovely arial photo in the article itself) would be the double roundabouts outside Great Missenden on the A413. Even without the small forests growing on them you couldn't see the other side and while the first one (in either direction) is easy enough to judge traffic on the second one is always pot luck. Thankfully the roundabouts are large enough that the sudden appearance of traffic turning right across you still gives some warning.
Thankfully I was taught to drive in Aylesbury (statistically the worst drivers in the country according to a study from a couple of years back) so I always expect the very worst and am fairly adept at taking advantage of the rare gaps in roundabout traffic.
For those in the Wycombe area (picking up on that lovely arial photo in the article itself) would be the double roundabouts outside Great Missenden on the A413. Even without the small forests growing on them you couldn't see the other side and while the first one (in either direction) is easy enough to judge traffic on the second one is always pot luck. Thankfully the roundabouts are large enough that the sudden appearance of traffic turning right across you still gives some warning.
Thankfully I was taught to drive in Aylesbury (statistically the worst drivers in the country according to a study from a couple of years back) so I always expect the very worst and am fairly adept at taking advantage of the rare gaps in roundabout traffic.
All good advice in the artical. But to be honest, if all the points were not already intuitivly obvious to people then they should not be driving in the first place! But I suppose that could be said about many aspects of driving and if implemetned, there would be no-one left on the road!
Chris944 said:
Planning ahead is restricted by idiot highway engineers putting a visual screen on the driver's right at the entrance to the roundabout thus forcing a stop.
What what what! It's actually quite a demanding process to become qualified as a highways engineer. But as you all seem to have identified, the idea is indeed that it slows traffic down (but not to a stop), although it's actually to reduce the severity should an accident occur. And before you say that it makes them more likely, the intention is that a competant driver would slow such that the available visibility is still adequate to avoid a collision. You only hit something on the roundabout if you're going too quick to stop when you see the vehicle, and that's hardly good driving is it?
The problem is that some people seem just a little immature in this area, they resent having to pay the price of a couple of seconds journey time (or more often, the fun of hammering into the roundabout at high speed like they're Senna, lets be honest) in return for a significant reduction in deaths and serious injuries.
I'd like to drive on the motorways at 155mph, but I accept that it'd be dangerous if everyone could and thus don't complain about laws stopping me doing it!
(That should get the discussion going!)
eein said:
All good advice in the article. But to be honest, if all the points were not already intuitively obvious to people then they should not be driving in the first place! But I suppose that could be said about many aspects of driving and if implemented, there would be no-one left on the road!
Oh I think there would still be 'Big Brian' from West Yorkshire.
Best wishes all,
The part time humour department.
Andrew D said:
But as you all seem to have identified, the idea is indeed that it slows traffic down (but not to a stop), although it's actually to reduce the severity should an accident occur. And before you say that it makes them more likely, the intention is that a competant driver would slow such that the available visibility is still adequate to avoid a collision.
The big problem with that is those of us who were properly using COAST to adjust their time of arrival to slot into a gap at free-travelling speed can no longer do so. The result is drivers forced to slow to a speed from which they can't slot in and have to wait for unrealistically (on todays inadequate infrastructure) large gaps, which results in huge tailbacks, which results in frustration and many taking risks or cutting up the traffic already on the roundabout. The delay for each car is not just a few seconds; it's a few seconds for every vehicle in front of them when they join the queue.
The five most important factors of road safety are:
* Concentration (also Care/Courtesy);
* Observation;
* Anticipation;
* Space; and
* Time.
These infernal screens seriously prevent the application of four of those five tenets (leaving only Concentration) - and you say they're there to improve safety
Andrew D said:
Chris944 said:
Planning ahead is restricted by idiot highway engineers putting a visual screen on the driver's right at the entrance to the roundabout thus forcing a stop.
I'd like to drive on the motorways at 155mph, but I accept that it'd be dangerous if everyone could and thus don't complain about laws stopping me doing it!
(That should get the discussion going!)
If *everyone* drove at 155mph it wouldn't be such a problem - the issue is the speed differentials and how to cope with some people driving at half that speed. Suggest you move these thoughts to a seperate thread though
Getting back on topic - the whole point of roundabouts is to maximise throughput without causing accidents. The problem with putting the raised roundabouts in is that it counters both of those points. Throughput is reduced and the number of accidents is increased.
The roundabout outside my estate is typical of this. Hardly a day goes by where I don't have to make an emergency stop because someone pulls out directly infront of me either because they couldn't be bothered to look or stop. All I want to do is turn right. The speeds involved seem irrelevant (I've tried everything in terms of experimentation) the only real factor seems to be the weight of traffic. When very light or very heavy it is relatively safe but in normal (average?) traffic I will risk an accident. This is neither good or safe planning on the part of the council. The only thing they seem interested in is making the roundabout pretty with lots of shrubs and flowers (comically it is almost like something out of Monty Python).
The worst part of this decoration is that it is within 100 yards of a large school entrance with drop-off area while the bus-stops are another 100 yards down the road (other side of the roundabout) so you have unattentive school children thrown into the equation along with equally unattentive parents delivering/collecting their beloved children. That the number of accidents is actually quite low is more a miracle than down to any thoughtful planning.
When i was but a lad I had a Honda 70. Driving steadily (as you do on a Honda 70) round a roundabout, an ambulance hit me from behind and sent me flying, the driver came over and started shouting and kicking me whilst I was on the ground, I asked him if he was on commission and he kicked me again!
willcove said:
These infernal screens seriously prevent the application of four of those five tenets (leaving only Concentration) - and you say they're there to improve safety
Well I actually said that they were intended to reduce impact severity, and that is true. The fact is that using visibility obstructions on a busy roundabout is pointless, because you don't get gaps anyway. They're only really useful at locations where traffic is comparatively light and approach speeds are thus high, and where drivers obviously have difficulty judging gap acceptability correctly.
The problem is that roundabouts are intended for locations at which there are roughly equal flows coming from the major arms of the junction, and a high proportion of right-turn movements in those flows. If those conditions are true then the opposing flows generally provide breaks in one another and allow an equal capacity in each direction. Unfortunately a lot of roundabouts are pretty old and traffic patterns have changed, or else are placed inappropriately when the patterns aren't balanced, and this promotes establishment of a constant stream of traffic from one arm, unbroken by traffic from the right, which blocks the other arms. That's the route of capacity problems.
Edited by Andrew D on Monday 19th June 15:17
Taking task to High Wycombe... There's a roundabout at the bottom of Hamilton Hill. Immediately after turning right there is a pedestrian crossing. People coming from the Morissons road have to pay a hell of a lot of attention to avoid running into someone who's stopped to let a pedestrian cross the road. The Turnpike roundabout and the one by Wycombe Abbey School going up Marlow Hill are also good for this accident inducing stunt by the local council.
Yeah.. I have problems with roundabouts that have poor lane markings, poor signposting and muppet town councilors who like to paint black and white lines 2 metres after the roundabout to let pedestrians cross. Before everyone has a go at me about allowing pedestrians cross the road.... I agree that pedestrains need crossing points. But surely they shouldn't be literally a couple of metres after the roundabout. Give the driver a chance to get the car pointed in the right direction before forcing them to stop.
BTW... Which roundabout is that one on the picture?
Yeah.. I have problems with roundabouts that have poor lane markings, poor signposting and muppet town councilors who like to paint black and white lines 2 metres after the roundabout to let pedestrians cross. Before everyone has a go at me about allowing pedestrians cross the road.... I agree that pedestrains need crossing points. But surely they shouldn't be literally a couple of metres after the roundabout. Give the driver a chance to get the car pointed in the right direction before forcing them to stop.
BTW... Which roundabout is that one on the picture?
Andrew D said:
The problem is that roundabouts are intended for locations at which there are roughly equal flows coming from the major arms of the junction, and a high proportion of right-turn movements in those flows. If those conditions are true then the opposing flows generally provide breaks in one another and allow an equal capacity in each direction. Unfortunately a lot of roundabouts are pretty old and traffic patterns have changed, or else are placed inappropriately when the patterns aren't balanced, and this promotes establishment of a constant stream of traffic from one arm, unbroken by traffic from the right, which blocks the other arms. That's the route of capacity problems.
Edited by Andrew D on Monday 19th June 15:17
Also if the roundabout is too big the gaps left by exiting traffic get filled up by circulating traffic so there is no way in for waiting traffic. Hence the traffic signals.
Round here there seems to be a regular stream of muppets who haven't learnt that you have to go round a roundabout with grass and half-dead trees on it. Failure to do so does nasty things to your suspension.
The worst thing is these pillocks who seem to have forgotten the highway code and basically how to drive all together! For example, I see many people using the left hand lane to turn right (no, really!) and indicating right when they are going straight on in the left hand lane! What's the matter with these people!? 
Andrew D said:
TripleS said:
Oh I think there would still be 'Big Brian' from West Yorkshire.
Who's Brian? Well so far he's declined to confirm that it's Brian, that was my invention, but from his PH name he appears to have three characteristics - large, corpulent and a third one about which I ought not to speculate. I expect he'll be along later and then I'll be in trouble again.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Mafioso said:
The worst thing is these pillocks who seem to have forgotten the highway code and basically how to drive all together! For example, I see many people using the left hand lane to turn right (no, really!) and indicating right when they are going straight on in the left hand lane! What's the matter with these people!?
They just need a suitably qualified person to spend a little time with them helping them to see better how these situations should be dealt with.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Wintermute said:
Yeah, my local council decided to put some bushes on the central reservation approaching a roundabout, blocking vision until actual on the roundabout.
Made even more fraught when combined with numpties using right hand lane to go straight on and/or not using indicators.
Question, if you approach a roundabout with two lanes, and there is two going off, why not use the outside land to go straight on?. Thought this was OK to do, Lack of indicators, yes bad thing? Made even more fraught when combined with numpties using right hand lane to go straight on and/or not using indicators.
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