RE: Got problems with roundabouts?
Discussion
The worse thing I see on roundabouts is this, you are waiting to move out, a car entering the roundabout from the road to your right, is intending to turn immediately left into your road, they dont bloody indicate.
If they did you could go, but oh no, you assume they are going to pass you, but they turn left, so frustrating.
If they did you could go, but oh no, you assume they are going to pass you, but they turn left, so frustrating.
Parrot of Doom said:
I have a theory about roundabouts.
If you can't correctly navigate one, even when its confusingly laid out, you're thick.
Simple as that IMO.
If you can't correctly navigate one, even when its confusingly laid out, you're thick.
Simple as that IMO.
Oh that seems a bit harsh PoD. I will admit I sometimes feel a bit of discomfort with them, such as on a very large roundabout where choice of the right lane at the right time doesn't always seem easy.
For example, I don't like the one at the junction of the M11 and the A120.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Just a few things to say about roundybouts if I can chirp in chaps!
A few gripes about them
HATE
: I hate them, unless there is nothing else on the road, then they can be great fun - cutting the apex on roundybouts to speed up a makes for a more enjoyable journey.
When cars are about, they're a pain in the ass, but then again I hate traffic lights too. (Why do they go on red when you approach and there is bugger all coming from any other direction?
)
Anyway roundybouts (or RBs),
OLD PEOPLE & THE THICK!
Why do people use the LH lane to go right on a dual carriageway approaching a RB?
Had a guy in an old Volvo once go all the way round from the LH lane past the 1st exit, past the 2nd, past the 3rd and onto the 4th. Stopped me going straight (Was in the RH lane it was busy, LH lane full, crap stretch of road past shops with people always pulling out into the LH lane). If I hadn't anticipated him doing it (yes he was indicating right) I'd have wiped him out, and his big long beard. Needless to say, he got a few verbals. IS it ever right to go right round a RB when in the LH lane???
REPS and wVDs
You know who you are.....
Also, this peeeves me off, there I am tootling along, and some rep, or white van driver (wVD) zooms up the inside of you at the last minute, slowing you to a crawl, making you go allllll the way round the RB, also slowing himself in the process, just to go straight on. Surely its quicker for him to stay behind you, and overtake after the RB. Strictly speaking I'm not totally correct but you PHers kow where Im coming from sureley.
WOMEN: Pulling out at RBs. They do it all the time, and they're usually, head just above the steering wheel, hands at 5 to 1, and fat. With grey hair!
Everyone has their faults and I'm no
but come on people, get with it.....
A few gripes about them
HATE
: I hate them, unless there is nothing else on the road, then they can be great fun - cutting the apex on roundybouts to speed up a makes for a more enjoyable journey. When cars are about, they're a pain in the ass, but then again I hate traffic lights too. (Why do they go on red when you approach and there is bugger all coming from any other direction?
) Anyway roundybouts (or RBs),
OLD PEOPLE & THE THICK!
Why do people use the LH lane to go right on a dual carriageway approaching a RB?
Had a guy in an old Volvo once go all the way round from the LH lane past the 1st exit, past the 2nd, past the 3rd and onto the 4th. Stopped me going straight (Was in the RH lane it was busy, LH lane full, crap stretch of road past shops with people always pulling out into the LH lane). If I hadn't anticipated him doing it (yes he was indicating right) I'd have wiped him out, and his big long beard. Needless to say, he got a few verbals. IS it ever right to go right round a RB when in the LH lane???
REPS and wVDs
You know who you are..... Also, this peeeves me off, there I am tootling along, and some rep, or white van driver (wVD) zooms up the inside of you at the last minute, slowing you to a crawl, making you go allllll the way round the RB, also slowing himself in the process, just to go straight on. Surely its quicker for him to stay behind you, and overtake after the RB. Strictly speaking I'm not totally correct but you PHers kow where Im coming from sureley.
WOMEN: Pulling out at RBs. They do it all the time, and they're usually, head just above the steering wheel, hands at 5 to 1, and fat. With grey hair!
Everyone has their faults and I'm no
but come on people, get with it..... davy9449 said:
Just a few things to say about roundybouts if I can chirp in chaps!
A few gripes about them
HATE : I hate them, unless there is nothing else on the road, then they can be great fun - cutting the apex on roundybouts to speed up a makes for a more enjoyable journey.
When cars are about, they're a pain in the ass, but then again I hate traffic lights too. (Why do they go on red when you approach and there is bugger all coming from any other direction?)
Anyway roundybouts (or RBs),
OLD PEOPLE & THE THICK!
Why do people use the LH lane to go right on a dual carriageway approaching a RB?
Had a guy in an old Volvo once go all the way round from the LH lane past the 1st exit, past the 2nd, past the 3rd and onto the 4th. Stopped me going straight (Was in the RH lane it was busy, LH lane full, crap stretch of road past shops with people always pulling out into the LH lane). If I hadn't anticipated him doing it (yes he was indicating right) I'd have wiped him out, and his big long beard. Needless to say, he got a few verbals. IS it ever right to go right round a RB when in the LH lane???
REPS and wVDs You know who you are.....
Also, this peeeves me off, there I am tootling along, and some rep, or white van driver (wVD) zooms up the inside of you at the last minute, slowing you to a crawl, making you go allllll the way round the RB, also slowing himself in the process, just to go straight on. Surely its quicker for him to stay behind you, and overtake after the RB. Strictly speaking I'm not totally correct but you PHers kow where Im coming from sureley.
WOMEN: Pulling out at RBs. They do it all the time, and they're usually, head just above the steering wheel, hands at 5 to 1, and fat. With grey hair!
Everyone has their faults and I'm no but come on people, get with it.....
A few gripes about them
HATE
: I hate them, unless there is nothing else on the road, then they can be great fun - cutting the apex on roundybouts to speed up a makes for a more enjoyable journey. When cars are about, they're a pain in the ass, but then again I hate traffic lights too. (Why do they go on red when you approach and there is bugger all coming from any other direction?
) Anyway roundybouts (or RBs),
OLD PEOPLE & THE THICK!
Why do people use the LH lane to go right on a dual carriageway approaching a RB?
Had a guy in an old Volvo once go all the way round from the LH lane past the 1st exit, past the 2nd, past the 3rd and onto the 4th. Stopped me going straight (Was in the RH lane it was busy, LH lane full, crap stretch of road past shops with people always pulling out into the LH lane). If I hadn't anticipated him doing it (yes he was indicating right) I'd have wiped him out, and his big long beard. Needless to say, he got a few verbals. IS it ever right to go right round a RB when in the LH lane???
REPS and wVDs
You know who you are..... Also, this peeeves me off, there I am tootling along, and some rep, or white van driver (wVD) zooms up the inside of you at the last minute, slowing you to a crawl, making you go allllll the way round the RB, also slowing himself in the process, just to go straight on. Surely its quicker for him to stay behind you, and overtake after the RB. Strictly speaking I'm not totally correct but you PHers kow where Im coming from sureley.
WOMEN: Pulling out at RBs. They do it all the time, and they're usually, head just above the steering wheel, hands at 5 to 1, and fat. With grey hair!
Everyone has their faults and I'm no
but come on people, get with it..... Quite simply if you are in an outisde lane (closest to centre of roundabout) the onus is on you to make sure you can get to the inside & your exit safely & in good time.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 19th June 23:30
Andrew D said:
Well I actually said that they were intended to reduce impact severity, and that is true.
It might well be true that they are intended to reduce impact severity, but I do wonder whether they have that effect. AFAICT, the fastest thing involved in a collision on a roundabout is usually the circulatory traffic - and that's not slowing down because of the floral blinkers. For that, circulatory traffic might even be speeding up because they no longer have sight of the hazard and so might be more inclined to trust to priority. Also, a slower joiner will have a negative speed differential for longer, and so be exposed to danger for longer. The severity of impact depends on the relative speed of the impacting bodies - and because the joiner is moving more slowly, that relative speed is likely to be greater, which implies increased impact severity - not reduced.
Of course, the circulatory traffic should be travelling at a speed from which they can stop within the distance they can see to be clear and can reasonable expect to remain clear. However if you try that, you're likely to get rear-ended or be the catalyst of an accident of impatience. So, around most of these roundabouts, circulatory traffic is travelling too fast for safety and it's all because of these floral blinkers. Either they don't understand the danger or see relying on priority to be the lesser of two evils.
I have noticed a couple of particularly egregious examples of large and overgrown roundabouts near Nottingham being stripped of their foliage recently. Being Nottingham I very much doubt the activity was connected to road safety. More likely the 'sponsors' pulled put and the council weighed up the ecological credits of the plants vs. the cost of maintenance and decided to trash the plants.
Either that or the bushes were getting in the way of a good scamera spot.
There are a number of places where a slow roundabout approach might just offer the possibility of a decent and liberal dose of weedkiller to the offending 'greenery'.
As for my local council, they seem to have deliberately planted trees and bushes next to a new roundabout - sole purpose to facilitate access to a distribution centre under development with an estimated 3000 artics per day expected to negotiate said roundabout when the facility is fully operational - in order to obscure the sight lines that original plan called for.
I would mail them and ask them why but it's probably not worth it. A couple of weeks ago I mailed and queried how wide a road though a housing estate should be if it is a designated bus route. Not even an acknowledgement. So much for e-government.
Either that or the bushes were getting in the way of a good scamera spot.
There are a number of places where a slow roundabout approach might just offer the possibility of a decent and liberal dose of weedkiller to the offending 'greenery'.
As for my local council, they seem to have deliberately planted trees and bushes next to a new roundabout - sole purpose to facilitate access to a distribution centre under development with an estimated 3000 artics per day expected to negotiate said roundabout when the facility is fully operational - in order to obscure the sight lines that original plan called for.
I would mail them and ask them why but it's probably not worth it. A couple of weeks ago I mailed and queried how wide a road though a housing estate should be if it is a designated bus route. Not even an acknowledgement. So much for e-government.
What annoys me is people indicating right at a roundabout - in any lane. You cannot turn right off a roundabout!- you can only ever turn left. Approaching a roundabout the inside lane is for turning left (usually 1st exit) or going straight on (usually second). If there is a middle lane this should be for straight on only. Right hand lane is for straight on, turning right (third exit), or continuing round (180 deg). As you pas the exit before the one you want, then indicate left - not before.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
the dodger said:
What annoys me is people indicating right at a roundabout - in any lane. You cannot turn right off a roundabout!- you can only ever turn left. Approaching a roundabout the inside lane is for turning left (usually 1st exit) or going straight on (usually second). If there is a middle lane this should be for straight on only. Right hand lane is for straight on, turning right (third exit), or continuing round (180 deg). As you pas the exit before the one you want, then indicate left - not before.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
Well, when roundabouts were roundabouts I guess that was about right though I'm not entirely convinced you are typo free in the post.
But these days things referred to as roundabouts are often more like variations on gyratory systems. If you ever get a chance to investigate the 'roundabout' at J24 of the M1 (now only 2 entrance roads not covered by light control) you might like to consider how the rules would apply. Suggest you try this BEFORE they repaint all the missing lane markings though as it will be less confusing until that time.
It is an especially interesting example of the modern genre, though my no means unique.
J23 is fun as well, though for entirely different reasons. It is small, tight, over grown so destroying sight lines but also has lights which seem to be sequenced to ensure vehicles stop on the roundabout in the middle of a lane change thus offering maximum inconvenience and potential accidents.
And there is a monstrosity at the Tamworth part of the M42 which looks like it was designed by a monkey wielding a crayon whilst it was masturbating.
There are some hideously designed roundabouts near me, two mini ones in an adjacent road which you have to go round the wrong way from a certain direction else you would NEVER see anything coming! A couple of huge, unnecessary ones that have been introduced near a supermarket, which I have never seen anyone go around, just straight across the middle. And, near in my sisters up and coming 'invented' town there was one which had two exits with a 19mph speed limit, one at 30mph and one at 5mph!! I have no idea what the speed limit around the roundabout was.
I believe at one point the apparant speed reducing mini-roundabouts and badly designed humps in my town were once called 'the most viscious attempt at speed reduction ever' by Mr Clarkson himself!
But then I favour the roundabout over those stupid filters in Guernesy anyday!
I believe at one point the apparant speed reducing mini-roundabouts and badly designed humps in my town were once called 'the most viscious attempt at speed reduction ever' by Mr Clarkson himself!
But then I favour the roundabout over those stupid filters in Guernesy anyday!
LongQ said:
I have noticed a couple of particularly egregious examples of large and overgrown roundabouts near Nottingham being stripped of their foliage recently. Being Nottingham I very much doubt the activity was connected to road safety. More likely the 'sponsors' pulled put and the council weighed up the ecological credits of the plants vs. the cost of maintenance and decided to trash the plants.
Either that or the bushes were getting in the way of a good scamera spot.
There are a number of places where a slow roundabout approach might just offer the possibility of a decent and liberal dose of weedkiller to the offending 'greenery'.
As for my local council, they seem to have deliberately planted trees and bushes next to a new roundabout - sole purpose to facilitate access to a distribution centre under development with an estimated 3000 artics per day expected to negotiate said roundabout when the facility is fully operational - in order to obscure the sight lines that original plan called for.
I would mail them and ask them why but it's probably not worth it. A couple of weeks ago I mailed and queried how wide a road though a housing estate should be if it is a designated bus route. Not even an acknowledgement. So much for e-government.
Either that or the bushes were getting in the way of a good scamera spot.
There are a number of places where a slow roundabout approach might just offer the possibility of a decent and liberal dose of weedkiller to the offending 'greenery'.
As for my local council, they seem to have deliberately planted trees and bushes next to a new roundabout - sole purpose to facilitate access to a distribution centre under development with an estimated 3000 artics per day expected to negotiate said roundabout when the facility is fully operational - in order to obscure the sight lines that original plan called for.
I would mail them and ask them why but it's probably not worth it. A couple of weeks ago I mailed and queried how wide a road though a housing estate should be if it is a designated bus route. Not even an acknowledgement. So much for e-government.
One more thing, and I'll keep this one short. Talking about putting obstructive and odd things at roundybouts. Perhaps the most odd thing ever is Balls!
You're thinking I'm talking b****ks again, but I am literally talking about bo*****s... in a roundybout.
OK they aren't hairy, but straight up, in Hartlepool our local wizards they call a council decided to invest in a sh*t load of 'kin great bo***ks to mount on a roundybout! somewhere in the region of £50K I think. They're that big, even King Kong would struggle to carry them round his tage (Hey, did he have on in that film - must have been awfully small!).
Other 'odd' mountings are, a Huge Ships anchor, now going rusty in the middle of a RB and a burnt out Mk 3 Escort RS look-a-like. (not sure the council paid for the last one though.)
All not really that obstructive, just a waste of bloody money!
Incidentally we voted a monkey in as mayor
.... nuff saidthe dodger said:
What annoys me is people indicating right at a roundabout - in any lane. You cannot turn right off a roundabout!- you can only ever turn left. Approaching a roundabout the inside lane is for turning left (usually 1st exit) or going straight on (usually second). If there is a middle lane this should be for straight on only. Right hand lane is for straight on, turning right (third exit), or continuing round (180 deg). As you pas the exit before the one you want, then indicate left - not before.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
Don't try this on a miniroundabout near here... As usual with indications, it's all a question of who you are indicating to. On approach to a RAB the indication right makes a lot of sense if you are travelling closely with other vehicles as it is your direction relative to their travel that you are trying to indicate. Similarly as you pass each exit, traffic waiting will know if you are continuing if you are indicating right as you pass - if your road position doesn't make this clear.
willcove said:
Of course, the circulatory traffic should be travelling at a speed from which they can stop within the distance they can see.
This is the whole root of the problem. Roads are designed to impress restraint upon the driver due to the perceived level of danger, and this is achieved both by the layout of the road (severity of bends, visibility, superelevation (banking)) and by the imposition of statutory speed limits. Which means roundabouts shouldn't have nice long straights, banked curves and 295m visibility, because people would treat them like the Indy 500! Unfortunately driving standards are heading down the toilet, so the idea of helping the driver to select an appropriate speed is becoming less viable. A signficiant proportion of drivers no longer give a sh*t about speed limits except where they are enforced with scameras; and vastly over-estimate their abilities and those of their vehicle, and drive at highly inappropriate speeds for the roads in question.
As a result if you have a de-restricted dual carriageway heading into a roundabout, you're very likely to get some Kevin in his Nova charging towards it a 80mph, notice a marginal gap coming round, and go for it taking a chance. And if he gets it wrong at that speed, which I'm sure you'll agree is not unheard of, he'll likely execute the occupants of the car he hits (no doubt an innocent 80 year old in a Prius, like it seems to have been on the A6 on Saturday).
However, the whole theory hinges on the assumption that blocking the line of sight will have any effect on the driver, and I'm not convinced that it would.
If you want to see *bad* design I suggest you take a gander at the layout of the new roundabout outside Brunel University. With all the new developments there someone thought it would be a good idea to effectively "shut" one entrance and force all traffic through the other (on that side of the campus). To control traffic a largish roundabout was built. This would be fine but in order to make it fit the roundabout has to offset from the road toward the campus. Anyone going straight through (toward Hillingdon hospital) basically would have a straight line "over" said roundabout with obvious consequences. So some bright spark decided to create an "obstacle" so that everyone has to slow down - in principle I would describe this as a good idea and under most circumstances worthy of commendation. Sadly the imbecile who penned it made the obstacle so wide that even small cars carrying straight on have to occupy the innermost circle of the roundabout in order to clear the turn without ending up on the wrong side of the road at the exit. Given that this is a fairly busy bus route you can imagine the chaos this caused.
The profile of the road has been updated since the roundabout was constructed to try and reduce the problem but the issue still remains - particularly for buses. They still have to swing across all the available space to make the switchback and still end up on the wrong side of the road. Thankfully small, even family sized cars can now make the turn without risking an accident with the unwary but I pity any "poor" student turning up for their first day by car unaware of the potential danger of pulling out onto a seemingly wide road or coming the other way and not expecting a bus to swing into oncoming traffic. To make things even worse this would all occur directly over a pedestrian crossing so if a bus or car ever has to swerve it would be straight into the point at which pedestrians would be waiting to cross...
The only viable solution is to rip the roundabout up and put in a proper junction while putting the original planner up against the wall to be shot. I would like to think that the whole thing is down to the construction crews misreading the plans but the fact that it is still a total cluster[censored] after it has been "fixed" suggests that it is just incompetence of the highest degree...
The profile of the road has been updated since the roundabout was constructed to try and reduce the problem but the issue still remains - particularly for buses. They still have to swing across all the available space to make the switchback and still end up on the wrong side of the road. Thankfully small, even family sized cars can now make the turn without risking an accident with the unwary but I pity any "poor" student turning up for their first day by car unaware of the potential danger of pulling out onto a seemingly wide road or coming the other way and not expecting a bus to swing into oncoming traffic. To make things even worse this would all occur directly over a pedestrian crossing so if a bus or car ever has to swerve it would be straight into the point at which pedestrians would be waiting to cross...
The only viable solution is to rip the roundabout up and put in a proper junction while putting the original planner up against the wall to be shot. I would like to think that the whole thing is down to the construction crews misreading the plans but the fact that it is still a total cluster[censored] after it has been "fixed" suggests that it is just incompetence of the highest degree...
the dodger said:
What annoys me is people indicating right at a roundabout - in any lane. You cannot turn right off a roundabout!- you can only ever turn left. Approaching a roundabout the inside lane is for turning left (usually 1st exit) or going straight on (usually second). If there is a middle lane this should be for straight on only. Right hand lane is for straight on, turning right (third exit), or continuing round (180 deg). As you pas the exit before the one you want, then indicate left - not before.
Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
They probably do it for the same reason I do, its in the highway code, quote:- Appologies if this has already been said - I didn't read all of this topic.
When taking the last exit or going full circle
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you
If more drivers did this, even more would know where the hell they are going, and be able to move onto the roundabout a little faster.
A classic example is the roundabout on the A90 in Aberdeen as it approached the Dee bridge.
Vehicles over 6 ft wide cannot use the bridge, therefore have to turn left at the roundabout to go via another bridge. Vehicles approaching from the road immediately to their right, have two lanes, the inside lane has an arrow on the road inducating traffic should turn left, so if you are coming from this side of the roundabout, and wish to go straight across, or turn off to the 3 o'clock position, ie the bridge, then you are in the outside lane.
If you approach with the right hand indicator on, as the HC says you should, then the lorrys waiting to turn left, can immediately see that you intend to go around the roundabout, and not straight on, which is the single lane road they are waiting to turn into, hope this makes sense.
Edited by vipers on Tuesday 20th June 17:41
LongQ said:
....there is a monstrosity at the Tamworth part of the M42 which looks like it was designed by a monkey wielding a crayon whilst it was masturbating.
Oh it's funny you should say that. I used to have difficulty getting onto that roundabout* at busy times due to all the A5 traffic, but after the work carried out there this past year or two I've found it much easier.
* from the M42 southbound exiting at J10 and heading for Trinity Road towards Kingsbury, and from Trinity Road and wishing to go M42 northbound.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Edited by TripleS on Tuesday 20th June 19:18
Isn't the basic problem that people should be tackling roundabouts in......
"Planning to stop but looking to go" mode.
When in reality they actually do so in.....
"I'm going, I tell you I'm going! OK I might stop if somebody heaves into view, but only might mind you, and they won't get a signal, or if they do get a signal that should tell them their luck is in and should buy a lottery ticket on Saturday
"Planning to stop but looking to go" mode.
When in reality they actually do so in.....
"I'm going, I tell you I'm going! OK I might stop if somebody heaves into view, but only might mind you, and they won't get a signal, or if they do get a signal that should tell them their luck is in and should buy a lottery ticket on Saturday
My personal hate is the me-toos, you know the ones.
Somebody pulls out onto the roundabout infront of you, you have to come off the throttle maybe brake a little, not a problem just the average ignorant driver.
Then the me-too decides that because the car in front got out they can, you end up doing an emergency stop in the middle of a roundabout hoping that the driver behind or right stops in time to avoid hitting you. The me-too seldom even notices that you just avoided parking your car in their drivers seat.
I think the me-too relies on the driver in front to have correctly checked for an appropriate gap so they can obviously squeeze in without going to the effort of actually turing their head and looking. Obscuring the entrance to a roundabout has no effect on a me-too as they do not bother to look anyway they have their own internal blinkers.
Not just at roundabouts of course, me-toos unfortunately inhabit many parts of the road system though I am not sure what they do when there is no car to follow.
Somebody pulls out onto the roundabout infront of you, you have to come off the throttle maybe brake a little, not a problem just the average ignorant driver.
Then the me-too decides that because the car in front got out they can, you end up doing an emergency stop in the middle of a roundabout hoping that the driver behind or right stops in time to avoid hitting you. The me-too seldom even notices that you just avoided parking your car in their drivers seat.
I think the me-too relies on the driver in front to have correctly checked for an appropriate gap so they can obviously squeeze in without going to the effort of actually turing their head and looking. Obscuring the entrance to a roundabout has no effect on a me-too as they do not bother to look anyway they have their own internal blinkers.
Not just at roundabouts of course, me-toos unfortunately inhabit many parts of the road system though I am not sure what they do when there is no car to follow.
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