Can I overtake?
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
always assume you need to accelerate at your cars maximum potential even if you don't need to.
Absolutely agree. In fact I pretty much always pass at full chat - saves a lot of nonsense and reduces the "danger time" on the far side of the road.
Not only that I find that in the Tiv/Porsche that this generally utterly demoralises the overtakee and they are happy to drop back and tootle on as they were earlier.
If you are going to overtake - do it decisively. The more decisively the better once committed IMO.
Don said:
If you are going to overtake - do it decisively. The more decisively the better once committed IMO.
Spot on. Don't let yourself get in a situation where your safety depends on their common sense and manners. Accelerate as necessary to maintain youre desired relative speed, and if you can't maintain it then look for other options such as a firm brake to drop back (gentle brake is no good as it leaves you vulnerable to bl**dy minded behaviour from the other party).
GreenV8S said:
Don said:
If you are going to overtake - do it decisively. The more decisively the better once committed IMO.
Spot on. Don't let yourself get in a situation where your safety depends on their common sense and manners. Accelerate as necessary to maintain youre desired relative speed, and if you can't maintain it then look for other options such as a firm brake to drop back (gentle brake is no good as it leaves you vulnerable to bl**dy minded behaviour from the other party).
I'd usually try to err on the side of subtlety and giving the overtakee a pleasant experience (reading that story about the guy who drives home after a payrise a bit daft, then slows down but ends up in a bad crash, but everyone saw him being a spoon earlier thinking it's because he was driving fast thingy), but I guess I was too subtle and left myself open to danger because they have more time to be small minded and do silly things.
I guess if your clear about your intentions to other road users, then a road user has no excuse to be startled by someone overtaking them quickly. I guess if we could all make that assumption then we would assume they'd let us overtake in a nice smooth restrained manner as I attemted though
Can't really win really, best to just get a car with loadsa bhp/tonne, and go past on a small throttle opening in a highish gear, if they speed up just go wide open throttle and get past with their ears hurting as punishment for being silly
Dave
Given some of the cars I've been in, I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to go past at full chat every time. By all means go WOT to get the speed differential required to complete the overtake in the space you've allocated, but to continue to accelerate once this speed differential has been attained only results in you eating up the distance between you and the next hazard at a quicker rate than necessary, which cuts into your observation and planning time.
I've been in too many situations where the drivers has done just that and while still patting himself on the back, makes an absolute Horlicks of the next bend hazard...
I've been in too many situations where the drivers has done just that and while still patting himself on the back, makes an absolute Horlicks of the next bend hazard...
StressedDave said:
Given some of the cars I've been in, I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to go past at full chat every time. By all means go WOT to get the speed differential required to complete the overtake in the space you've allocated, but to continue to accelerate once this speed differential has been attained only results in you eating up the distance between you and the next hazard at a quicker rate than necessary, which cuts into your observation and planning time.
I've been in too many situations where the drivers has done just that and while still patting himself on the back, makes an absolute Horlicks of the next bend hazard...
I've been in too many situations where the drivers has done just that and while still patting himself on the back, makes an absolute Horlicks of the next bend hazard...
Good point. After taking up the following position, moving out, taking a very careful look up the road to check the manouever is still on, deciding to commit and selecting the proper gear I floor it. Then I lift. The idea is pass the car in front a.s.a.p. then slow fairly rapidly to my desired cruising speed.
I want to spend the minimum time possible on the "wrong" side of the road. But, also, I don't want to have retained such a high level of momentum I can't make the next corner!
But I stand by my "do it decisively" statement. Trickling by help no-one and opens you up to risks - as Peter points out you are then at the mercy of their manners - rather than being in control of the situation.
Don said:
I want to spend the minimum time possible on the "wrong" side of the road. But, also, I don't want to have retained such a high level of momentum I can't make the next corner!
Additionally if the next bend is a left-hander, you've got a cheeky bit of positioning set-up already which you even might not have to abandon for safety as you run into the bend if the view is maintained from out there.
Don said:
After taking up the following position, moving out, taking a very careful look up the road to check the manouever is still on, deciding to commit and selecting the proper gear I floor it. Then I lift. The idea is pass the car in front a.s.a.p. then slow fairly rapidly to my desired cruising speed.
Small question - you get into a responsive gear before getting out or after? On the limited efforts I make, I select the gear before moving out.
Vaux said:
Don said:
After taking up the following position, moving out, taking a very careful look up the road to check the manouever is still on, deciding to commit and selecting the proper gear I floor it. Then I lift. The idea is pass the car in front a.s.a.p. then slow fairly rapidly to my desired cruising speed.
Small question - you get into a responsive gear before getting out or after? On the limited efforts I make, I select the gear before moving out.
I think 'before' makes best sense. You don't want to be doing your gear change at the same time as concentrating on your final look, and then maybe wanting to accelerate immediately.
Mind you, this is not a problem that often confronts me!
Best wishes all,
Dave - by 'eck I could just fancy a banana.
7db said:
Before and with a nice revvy downchange so they can hear you coming...
I can just hear it now...
"clatter clatter clatter, clunk, clat clat clat clat"
Mmmm, the sound of a 4 pot diesel being blipped on the downshift
I left my car in 5th(top) which should have been plenty, especially with a bit of a downhill gradient helping me along and just hitting peak torque. I guess the dynamics of overtaking and being decisive alter quite alot with a car with 100bhp/tonne or less.
Thanks for the tips and advice everyone. Tis good to learn a few things and then apply them next time you drive, and that realisation of how much more complete and easy everything feels as a consequence of the better method.
Dave
7db said:
That's a horrible situation to find yourself in. And exactly the one I found myself in yesterday.
Chav-boy decided that my passing him was an invitation to a race so opened up trying to strand me on the offside. Fortunately there was sufficient vision to complete the overtake. From your noctural Roadcrafting, you would too have been in a position to notice that it was a likely outcome (observe size of exhaust pipe, manner of driving when you adopt the overtaking position) and wait for a good long stretch before committing.
His second mistake was following me into the next corner after I'd spent a day on a handling course. I didn't see him again.
Chav-boy decided that my passing him was an invitation to a race so opened up trying to strand me on the offside. Fortunately there was sufficient vision to complete the overtake. From your noctural Roadcrafting, you would too have been in a position to notice that it was a likely outcome (observe size of exhaust pipe, manner of driving when you adopt the overtaking position) and wait for a good long stretch before committing.
His second mistake was following me into the next corner after I'd spent a day on a handling course. I didn't see him again.
Had a very similar experience myself a few weeks ago, though it wasn't a "chav-boy" but just your generic numpty who gets the arse when people overtake, in a Punto, doing 40 in an NSL down a straight which precedes one of my favourite sequences of bends. Being overtaken seemed to send him into "chase mode"; he put his foot down as I was coming past - though apparently still in fifth gear, so it didn't affect the overtake very much - and put his headlights on; the first bend blocked my view of him, but I then saw him coming out of it still with his lights on and much more aggressively than his previous style, though he was a long way behind by then and that was the last I saw of him; I was slightly surprised when he didn't catch me up in the village that is half a mile or so after the rest of the bends, but didn't worry about it. Went down the same road a few days later and on the exit from the last bend in the sequence there was a big plough mark leading into the ditch...
Still feel obscurely guilty over this, despite telling myself there is no way to predict that an entirely safe overtaking manoeuvre would cause the overtakee to do a Jekyll->Hyde and go off the road four bends later, and come to that I don't even know if it was him who made the plough marks or someone else in the intervening few days.
Hahaha, thats brilliant.
i just dont understand why some people get the hump so much when you overtake them, its almost as if you are making a slur on thier personality, not just that you want to go faster than they are.
Twits
Had an instance this morning, lad infront in a civic was fannying around trying to get past a 40mph old man, big wide open straight comes up, he looked like he was looking to go, but didnt. SO i just dropped a gear and did them both in one go. Job Done. I carried on my way in a NSL zone, which turns into a 30mph.
I was tootling along at 30mph for a while and i saw in my mirrors this civic coming up behind with full beams on closing on me extremely quick. (Must have been doing 50 at least - TIT!)
He then proceeded to weave around behind me and come really close to my bumper etc.
Probably has short-man syndrome or something....
i just dont understand why some people get the hump so much when you overtake them, its almost as if you are making a slur on thier personality, not just that you want to go faster than they are.
Twits
Had an instance this morning, lad infront in a civic was fannying around trying to get past a 40mph old man, big wide open straight comes up, he looked like he was looking to go, but didnt. SO i just dropped a gear and did them both in one go. Job Done. I carried on my way in a NSL zone, which turns into a 30mph.
I was tootling along at 30mph for a while and i saw in my mirrors this civic coming up behind with full beams on closing on me extremely quick. (Must have been doing 50 at least - TIT!)
He then proceeded to weave around behind me and come really close to my bumper etc.
Probably has short-man syndrome or something....
Peat said:
The worst drivers though are the ones which go painfully slow through the corners and then gun it on the straights, it leaves me screwed with no chance to make a move.
I don't mind them so much. Some cars don't go round corners very well: at least they're making an attempt to corner at a safe speed but to keep up a reasonable road speed on the straights. Even if it would be even more courteous of them to hang back on a straight to let the car behind past.
The ones I don't like are people who don't have the confidence to drive faster than 50mph (or even slower) on a single carriageway, and then when they reach a dual carriageway section they speed up to 80 thus forcing you to go way over the speed limit if you're going to overtake them.
Vaux said:
Don said:
After taking up the following position, moving out, taking a very careful look up the road to check the manouever is still on, deciding to commit and selecting the proper gear I floor it. Then I lift. The idea is pass the car in front a.s.a.p. then slow fairly rapidly to my desired cruising speed.
Small question - you get into a responsive gear before getting out or after? On the limited efforts I make, I select the gear before moving out.
Debateable this. Personally I tend to select the most responsive gear before for the exact reason StressedDave says - I don't want to waste time on the "wrong" side of the road! The downside of doing this is that after moving out and getting the full view up the road if the overtake isn't on (OK OK - if your observation was good enough it should be - but...) than after tucking back in you are going to need to change back to the cruising gear.
So - yes - before.
Don said:
Debateable this. Personally I tend to select the most responsive gear before for the exact reason StressedDave says - I don't want to waste time on the "wrong" side of the road! The downside of doing this is that after moving out and getting the full view up the road if the overtake isn't on (OK OK - if your observation was good enough it should be - but...) than after tucking back in you are going to need to change back to the cruising gear.
So - yes - before.
Don
I don't think going out for a look and then deciding that the overtake isn't on is a somehow 'wrong'. Apologies if I misunderstood your position.
Don said:
Debateable this. Personally I tend to select the most responsive gear before for the exact reason StressedDave says - I don't want to waste time on the "wrong" side of the road! The downside of doing this is that after moving out and getting the full view up the road if the overtake isn't on (OK OK - if your observation was good enough it should be - but...) than after tucking back in you are going to need to change back to the cruising gear.
So - yes - before.
Not Necessarily . Moving to the other side of the road may "open up" more of a view than you had when following.
This extra bit of info might make up your mind for you.
Definitely gear before. There is always a risk that you might miss/not get it in which is not so good on
the wrong side of the road. If you have to move back in behind and change up, failing to make a change
would be less of a danger.
Edited by over_the_hill on Thursday 6th July 17:12
over_the_hill said:
Not Necessarily . Moving to the other side of the road may "open up" more of a view than you had when following.
This extra bit of info might make up your mind for you.
Definitely gear before. There is always a risk that you might miss/not get it in which is not so good on
the wrong side of the road. If you have to move back in behind and change up, failing to make a change
would be less of a danger.
This extra bit of info might make up your mind for you.
Definitely gear before. There is always a risk that you might miss/not get it in which is not so good on
the wrong side of the road. If you have to move back in behind and change up, failing to make a change
would be less of a danger.
It does need to be a two-stage process. The first thing is to position yourself so that you know that it's safe to move into the other lane. You then need to get out there and ask the question 'is it safe to overtake?'. You should never make that decision until you have all the possible information.
As to worrying about dropping up and down gears, don't. If you're smooth enough with the changes, the only person who will notice is you...
Overtaking seems to be falling out of favour these days. What do you guys think? I see less of it going on which results in really long queues of traffic building up quite unnessasarily. It makes overtaking half a dozen cars a much bigger problem. I find it particularly annoying being stuck behind lets say 5 cars with none of them being prepared to overtake and then they dont leave gaps to allow me to make the over take either. I must admit I always manage to open a gap up myself though
Crippo said:
Overtaking seems to be falling out of favour these days. What do you guys think? I see less of it going on which results in really long queues of traffic building up quite unnessasarily. It makes overtaking half a dozen cars a much bigger problem. I find it particularly annoying being stuck behind lets say 5 cars with none of them being prepared to overtake and then they dont leave gaps to allow me to make the over take either. I must admit I always manage to open a gap up myself though
If they haven't left big enough gaps for you to overtake how do you manage to open the gap up ?
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