Can I overtake?
Discussion
Chris71 said:
Surely this is a bit irrelevant - the only occasion you're likely to get caught speeding whilst overtaking is if its an unmarked police car. To be honest on most of the roads I'd be likely to overtake on (principally 60 limit A or B roads) there aren't goig to be speed cameras and I find it hard to believe that anyone here really does 70 on a desserted dual carriageway or motorway where you are likely to encounter them, so in terms of 'loosing my license' I'd say "overtaking roads" aren't a big threat.
As for the morality of the law - well, as I said before, under certain circumstances trying to equal even a 30mph limit can be extremely dangerous (say on market day in a village with people milling around) however I fail to see why an experienced driver in a well maintained modern car can't do the ton on an empty motorway in reasonable weather. Especially, when police seem to think its ok to 'try out' their cars at ....what was it... 169mph?
Heres another way of looking at it. If you aim to stick rigidly to the speed limit and so currently do more or less 60 on the suitable parts of a local A road, you will presumably go down there at somewhat under 40mph if the government get there way and reduce the rural speed limits to 40mph. Does this mean you were driving reclessly before? Of course not.
Likewise if a rural road has a long, wide straight with good visibility then a sharp, blind corner the appropriate speed is obviously very different at these two points that may be within 100yds of each other, yet the speed limit will almost certainly be a fixed across the whole length. The moral is simple - use your own judgement and if in doubt, slow down.
As for the morality of the law - well, as I said before, under certain circumstances trying to equal even a 30mph limit can be extremely dangerous (say on market day in a village with people milling around) however I fail to see why an experienced driver in a well maintained modern car can't do the ton on an empty motorway in reasonable weather. Especially, when police seem to think its ok to 'try out' their cars at ....what was it... 169mph?
Heres another way of looking at it. If you aim to stick rigidly to the speed limit and so currently do more or less 60 on the suitable parts of a local A road, you will presumably go down there at somewhat under 40mph if the government get there way and reduce the rural speed limits to 40mph. Does this mean you were driving reclessly before? Of course not.
Likewise if a rural road has a long, wide straight with good visibility then a sharp, blind corner the appropriate speed is obviously very different at these two points that may be within 100yds of each other, yet the speed limit will almost certainly be a fixed across the whole length. The moral is simple - use your own judgement and if in doubt, slow down.
You are only allowed to use your judgement up to the limit though, beyond that you can prosecuted.
If the NSL limits is changed to 40, then yes 40 will be the limit.
I can already travel safely much quicker than the NSL limit at times (more than double infact) but don't only from a position of legality.
Back to multi-car overtakes...
If there are three numpties, one in the lead, setting a cracking pace of say 45 in a 60 (happens a lot round here)
and
Two other numpties: a tailgater, and a tailgater of the tailgater
...I tend to overtake them anyhoo, and just look for an extra 30-40 yards of space than I otherwise would, because actually, that's all the extra space they are using and the only extra hazard they present. No different to overtaking an HGV, really.
Thoughts?
If there are three numpties, one in the lead, setting a cracking pace of say 45 in a 60 (happens a lot round here)
and
Two other numpties: a tailgater, and a tailgater of the tailgater
...I tend to overtake them anyhoo, and just look for an extra 30-40 yards of space than I otherwise would, because actually, that's all the extra space they are using and the only extra hazard they present. No different to overtaking an HGV, really.
Thoughts?
The big hazard of a multiple overtake is that one of the intermediate cars pulls out on you to make their own overtake. It's natural to concentrate on what's in front of you during an overtake so you can't trust them to see you. Combine this with a potentially high closing speed as you are accelerating past more than one car and you can have a recipe for disaster.
Good point - you can usually spot an aggressive tailgate (likely to do that) versus a lazy-minded one (will not overtake, just tailgating for the hell of it), but I guess sometime they might make a stealth manoevure on me. Spose I should have said I don't do it if I can see one of the two tailgaters clearly has ants in their pants, which does happen.
I have aborted "normal" overtakes at the point where I've changed down and I've hung a wheel out to make a final check on space, at which point the target car starts eating up the space I was going to use - because they are using it to accelerate and overtake the next car in the queue, obviously not noticed me fixing to overtake in their mirror.
I would have thought if the middle car of the three in my scenario was going to make a move, it would be adequately before I was actually abreast of the back car, and I should have space to brake and drop back in, albeit quite close to the rear car.
I have aborted "normal" overtakes at the point where I've changed down and I've hung a wheel out to make a final check on space, at which point the target car starts eating up the space I was going to use - because they are using it to accelerate and overtake the next car in the queue, obviously not noticed me fixing to overtake in their mirror.
I would have thought if the middle car of the three in my scenario was going to make a move, it would be adequately before I was actually abreast of the back car, and I should have space to brake and drop back in, albeit quite close to the rear car.
I'd like to add that I have been on the receiving end of the "You're not overtaking me if I can help it" brigade - nobody seems to like being overtaken by a very old car! Even if they are bimbling along at a ridiculously low speed (one recent example - overtook someone doing just under 30mph in a 50 zone). I've had them speed up drastically to prevent me from overtaking, and often I've had to pull back in behind them for my own safety, or else I have the idiots then tailgate me for a mile or two before our ways then part.
It's not about legality, convenience, etc for these people, it really does eem to be an attitude problem - "I won't be overtaken by a Morris Minor!" Well sorry, but you will if you're going too slowly and it's clear for me to pass!
It's not about legality, convenience, etc for these people, it really does eem to be an attitude problem - "I won't be overtaken by a Morris Minor!" Well sorry, but you will if you're going too slowly and it's clear for me to pass!
I used to have that when I drove old minis! If I did get past safely, I used to prove the point by driving faster round the corners than they could and pull away from them.
Just to get back the point slightly, overtaking a car that is travelling below the speed limit in dry, safe conditions is a perfectly acceptable thing to do - it's like walking faster than someone on a street. I see absolutely nothing wrong in breaking the speed limit temporarily in order to execute the overtake. This reduces my exposure time and allows me to pull in ahead of the car without compromising his braking distance. this is surely safer than bimbling along at 60 beside him for a minute, provided I drop back to a safe speed upon completion of the overtake.
Just to get back the point slightly, overtaking a car that is travelling below the speed limit in dry, safe conditions is a perfectly acceptable thing to do - it's like walking faster than someone on a street. I see absolutely nothing wrong in breaking the speed limit temporarily in order to execute the overtake. This reduces my exposure time and allows me to pull in ahead of the car without compromising his braking distance. this is surely safer than bimbling along at 60 beside him for a minute, provided I drop back to a safe speed upon completion of the overtake.
waremark said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
A question for VH (apologies if it has been asked before 
)
Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
) Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
Personally I don't think you should expect a public answer to such a question - and why does it matter?
Because if he does, he is a hypocrite. Simple really. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes VH does
) You are right about your first point and openly admitting it in public. Perhaps VH could mail me instead...
Cheers,
Steve
Fat Audi 80 said:
waremark said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
A question for VH (apologies if it has been asked before )
Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
) Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
Personally I don't think you should expect a public answer to such a question - and why does it matter?
Because if he does, he is a hypocrite. Simple really. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes VH does
) You are right about your first point and openly admitting it in public. Perhaps VH could mail me instead...
Cheers,
Steve
I have clearly said previously I am not perfect, but I strive to be
The important thing is that should I fail, I accept it is my responsibility. I'm not going to be bleating & blaming others for it.
There is nothing hypocritical in that.
What would be hypocritical is saying it's alright for me to do it, but I'm not saying that at all, quite the opposite infact. It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 25th September 19:55
vonhosen said:
It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
From comments you've made in the past I suspect that the consequences for you may actually be far more severe than they would be for Joe Public. Perhaps if I had that hanging over me I would be inclined to obey the letter of the law more scrupulously. As it is, I'm prepared to take my chances from time to time, because I see no good reason to obey the speed limit so I obey it only to the extent necessary to protect myself from persecution. Driving safely on the other hand is something that I consider very important. Obedience to the speed limit is more or less irrelevent to that though.
GreenV8S said:
vonhosen said:
It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
From comments you've made in the past I suspect that the consequences for you may actually be far more severe than they would be for Joe Public. Perhaps if I had that hanging over me I would be inclined to obey the letter of the law more scrupulously. As it is, I'm prepared to take my chances from time to time, because I see no good reason to obey the speed limit so I obey it only to the extent necessary to protect myself from persecution. Driving safely on the other hand is something that I consider very important. Obedience to the speed limit is more or less irrelevent to that though.
I consider safety very important, I hope you are not suggesting that I don't.
Safe & legal can quite happily exist harmoniously.
vonhosen said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
waremark said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
A question for VH (apologies if it has been asked before )
Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
) Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
Personally I don't think you should expect a public answer to such a question - and why does it matter?
Because if he does, he is a hypocrite. Simple really. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes VH does
) You are right about your first point and openly admitting it in public. Perhaps VH could mail me instead...
Cheers,
Steve
I have clearly said previously I am not perfect, but I strive to be
The important thing is that should I fail, I accept it is my responsibility. I'm not going to be bleating & blaming others for it.
There is nothing hypocritical in that.
What would be hypocritical is saying it's alright for me to do it, but I'm not saying that at all, quite the opposite infact. It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 25th September 19:55
Don't get me wrong I am not questioning your proffessional integrity or your ability on the job. I guess what I am hinting at is in all of your advice you advocate that no member of the public should ever break the speed limit, yet I wonder do you actually subscribe to that when OFF DUTY?
I suspect you will not / cannot answer this, but have you ever travelled at more than 70 mph on a motorway when OFF DUTY?
I would suspect that the answer is you probably have. I cannot believe someone with your ability and training would be comfortable when OFF DUTY not making efficient progress.
Sorry to go off topic, but I was curious.
Cheers,
Steve.
P.S. And should I fail, or be caught speeding then I am fully prepared to accept responsibility for it and my actions too. I choose to break the speed limit and choose to accept the consequences that go with it.
Edited by Fat Audi 80 on Tuesday 26th September 08:53
vonhosen said:
GreenV8S said:
vonhosen said:
It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
From comments you've made in the past I suspect that the consequences for you may actually be far more severe than they would be for Joe Public. Perhaps if I had that hanging over me I would be inclined to obey the letter of the law more scrupulously. As it is, I'm prepared to take my chances from time to time, because I see no good reason to obey the speed limit so I obey it only to the extent necessary to protect myself from persecution. Driving safely on the other hand is something that I consider very important. Obedience to the speed limit is more or less irrelevent to that though.
I consider safety very important, I hope you are not suggesting that I don't.
Safe & legal can quite happily exist harmoniously.
....and so can safe and illegal, er, I venture to suggest - so no surprises there.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Fat Audi 80 said:
vonhosen said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
waremark said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
A question for VH (apologies if it has been asked before )
Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
) Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
Personally I don't think you should expect a public answer to such a question - and why does it matter?
Because if he does, he is a hypocrite. Simple really. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes VH does
) You are right about your first point and openly admitting it in public. Perhaps VH could mail me instead...
Cheers,
Steve
I have clearly said previously I am not perfect, but I strive to be
The important thing is that should I fail, I accept it is my responsibility. I'm not going to be bleating & blaming others for it.
There is nothing hypocritical in that.
What would be hypocritical is saying it's alright for me to do it, but I'm not saying that at all, quite the opposite infact. It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 25th September 19:55
Don't get me wrong I am not questioning your proffessional integrity or your ability on the job. I guess what I am hinting at is in all of your advice you advocate that no member of the public should ever break the speed limit, yet I wonder do you actually subscribe to that when OFF DUTY?
I suspect you will not / cannot answer this, but have you ever travelled at more than 70 mph on a motorway when OFF DUTY?
I would suspect that the answer is you probably have. I cannot believe someone with your ability and training would be comfortable when OFF DUTY not making efficient progress.
Sorry to go off topic, but I was curious.
Cheers,
Steve.
P.S. And should I fail, or be caught speeding then I am fully prepared to accept responsibility for it and my actions too. I choose to break the speed limit and choose to accept the consequences that go with it.
I am prepared to accept the consequences, but don't want them. To that end I attempt to avoid them by attempting to obey the limit whenever I drive OFF DUTY.
vonhosen said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
vonhosen said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
waremark said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
A question for VH (apologies if it has been asked before )
Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
) Q. Have you ever broken the speed limit in your private vehicle? (Honestly)
Personally I don't think you should expect a public answer to such a question - and why does it matter?
Because if he does, he is a hypocrite. Simple really. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes VH does
) You are right about your first point and openly admitting it in public. Perhaps VH could mail me instead...
Cheers,
Steve
I have clearly said previously I am not perfect, but I strive to be
The important thing is that should I fail, I accept it is my responsibility. I'm not going to be bleating & blaming others for it.
There is nothing hypocritical in that.
What would be hypocritical is saying it's alright for me to do it, but I'm not saying that at all, quite the opposite infact. It's as illegal for me to do it as it is for you and if I fail I should face the same fate as everyone else.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 25th September 19:55
Don't get me wrong I am not questioning your proffessional integrity or your ability on the job. I guess what I am hinting at is in all of your advice you advocate that no member of the public should ever break the speed limit, yet I wonder do you actually subscribe to that when OFF DUTY?
I suspect you will not / cannot answer this, but have you ever travelled at more than 70 mph on a motorway when OFF DUTY?
I would suspect that the answer is you probably have. I cannot believe someone with your ability and training would be comfortable when OFF DUTY not making efficient progress.
Sorry to go off topic, but I was curious.
Cheers,
Steve.
P.S. And should I fail, or be caught speeding then I am fully prepared to accept responsibility for it and my actions too. I choose to break the speed limit and choose to accept the consequences that go with it.
I am prepared to accept the consequences, but don't want them. To that end I attempt to avoid them by attempting to obey the limit whenever I drive OFF DUTY.
Fair enough!
Cheers,
Steve.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff