IAM - brisk driving?
Discussion
Sorry for the long post.
Over the past few weeks I have been having observed drives in preparation for taking the IAM ‘test’. During this time I have started 3 related posts on PH.
The first post expressed my concern that my IAM observer was requiring me to drive too slowly. Although he encouraged me to drive at the speed limit when possible (not that I needed encouragement to do this) he criticised what he referred to as my ‘boy racer tendency’ to ‘race away’ from traffic lights and roundabouts. Although I dramatically reduced the amount of acceleration that I was using he occasionally felt I was ‘still too fast’. As I realised that to past the IAM ‘test’ I would have to adhere to their standards I kept my acceleration well in check. Incidentally I am 59 and drive a 2002 2 litre Accord, so hardly the typical ‘boy-racer’! I have a full head of (brown) hair and don’t wear a hat, so I don’t even look like the general perception of the older Honda driver.
My second post was regarding overtaking on single-carriageway A-roads and how rarely it is possible to overtake safely and also keep within the speed limit.
My final related post as whether there was any point in owning a fast car in Britain today. A predicable reply was “to drive fast!”. But where on public roads? The answer seems to be – only worthwhile if the driver is prepared to break the speed limits?
I am not a saint – I do keep to 30 & 40 limits, and most 50s, but have been known to ignore 60s & 70s. In 38 years of driving I have had a number of speeding convictions – all on dual-carriageways or motorways (never in road-works) in good conditions with little traffic. Maximum alleged speed has been 105mph on a deserted M11 at 5.30 on a dry summer’s morning in 1988 – I was banned for that. My last offence was in Nov. 2003 in an Audi A4 1.8T on an empty dual-carriageway in S.Wales – 94mph recorded by a mobile speed-camera. Never had more than 6 points at any one time though.
So what would I gain by buying a faster car than that which I own now? Certainly not reduced journey times. So just image and higher running costs? No thanks.
On Saturday I took my IAM ‘test’ and passed. I am both pleased and disappointed. As was once said (by Groucho Marx?) “I wouldn’t want to join a club that will have me as a member”. If my current standard of driving merits a pass then the standard is lower than I thought. Apart from using less acceleration and separating braking and gear-changes I have changed little in my driving style since starting with the IAM. Maybe I’m a better driver than I think, but that’s not a very male attitude!
During the de-brief after the test the ‘examiner’ mentioned my tendency to “rush away from lights, junctions and roundabouts”. WTF! I had deliberately kept my rate of acceleration VERY low and felt that I was holding up other drivers unnecessary. Indeed on two occasions these drivers felt that they had to eventually overtake me at unsafe locations despite the fact that I was then travelling at the prevailing 40 speed limit. I believe that ‘making progress’ should mean gaining speed briskly as well as driving at the speed limit where possible. The insistence on using ‘acceleration sense’ followed by gentle braking, followed by a separate gear change when entering a corner also frustrates following drivers. I still can’t see the problem, on a dry straight section of road, in combining braking with a downward gear-change before a corner. I am not suggesting hard acceleration away from every stop and harsh braking before every corner but a more ‘brisk’ manner of driving than was advocated during my contact with the IAM method of driving would seem to be in order.
Over the past few weeks I have been having observed drives in preparation for taking the IAM ‘test’. During this time I have started 3 related posts on PH.
The first post expressed my concern that my IAM observer was requiring me to drive too slowly. Although he encouraged me to drive at the speed limit when possible (not that I needed encouragement to do this) he criticised what he referred to as my ‘boy racer tendency’ to ‘race away’ from traffic lights and roundabouts. Although I dramatically reduced the amount of acceleration that I was using he occasionally felt I was ‘still too fast’. As I realised that to past the IAM ‘test’ I would have to adhere to their standards I kept my acceleration well in check. Incidentally I am 59 and drive a 2002 2 litre Accord, so hardly the typical ‘boy-racer’! I have a full head of (brown) hair and don’t wear a hat, so I don’t even look like the general perception of the older Honda driver.
My second post was regarding overtaking on single-carriageway A-roads and how rarely it is possible to overtake safely and also keep within the speed limit.
My final related post as whether there was any point in owning a fast car in Britain today. A predicable reply was “to drive fast!”. But where on public roads? The answer seems to be – only worthwhile if the driver is prepared to break the speed limits?
I am not a saint – I do keep to 30 & 40 limits, and most 50s, but have been known to ignore 60s & 70s. In 38 years of driving I have had a number of speeding convictions – all on dual-carriageways or motorways (never in road-works) in good conditions with little traffic. Maximum alleged speed has been 105mph on a deserted M11 at 5.30 on a dry summer’s morning in 1988 – I was banned for that. My last offence was in Nov. 2003 in an Audi A4 1.8T on an empty dual-carriageway in S.Wales – 94mph recorded by a mobile speed-camera. Never had more than 6 points at any one time though.
So what would I gain by buying a faster car than that which I own now? Certainly not reduced journey times. So just image and higher running costs? No thanks.
On Saturday I took my IAM ‘test’ and passed. I am both pleased and disappointed. As was once said (by Groucho Marx?) “I wouldn’t want to join a club that will have me as a member”. If my current standard of driving merits a pass then the standard is lower than I thought. Apart from using less acceleration and separating braking and gear-changes I have changed little in my driving style since starting with the IAM. Maybe I’m a better driver than I think, but that’s not a very male attitude!
During the de-brief after the test the ‘examiner’ mentioned my tendency to “rush away from lights, junctions and roundabouts”. WTF! I had deliberately kept my rate of acceleration VERY low and felt that I was holding up other drivers unnecessary. Indeed on two occasions these drivers felt that they had to eventually overtake me at unsafe locations despite the fact that I was then travelling at the prevailing 40 speed limit. I believe that ‘making progress’ should mean gaining speed briskly as well as driving at the speed limit where possible. The insistence on using ‘acceleration sense’ followed by gentle braking, followed by a separate gear change when entering a corner also frustrates following drivers. I still can’t see the problem, on a dry straight section of road, in combining braking with a downward gear-change before a corner. I am not suggesting hard acceleration away from every stop and harsh braking before every corner but a more ‘brisk’ manner of driving than was advocated during my contact with the IAM method of driving would seem to be in order.
I'm not sure how to respond, other than to say I think your instincts are right, and the IAM are wrong.
I have no advanced driving qualifications, so I am probably in no position to comment.
But I have no intention of doing an IAM course precisely for the attitude and approach you mention - my one and only contact with my local IAM showed the same bias towards, to my mind, excessive caution and blind adherence.
My view on driving has always been that it is a responsibility, a privilege, but also a pleasure. I take pride in my observation. I seek to improve my car control, both within and on the limit. And above all I am seeking to improve my patience and my courtesy (my weaknesses). But that does not stop me using my car, where appropriate, in a manner that means I enjoy all of it's performance.
And as I am responsible for my actions, I feel I should be some judge of what is and isn't appropriate for the road and conditions (speed, positioning, gaps left...). Not a popular viewpoint at the moment, but one that fits with my own sense of responsibility and individuality.
Take pride in your IAM pass...but take advice from those who are better still - John Lyons and his peers. They will, I hope, show you the next stage in driving ability.
I have no advanced driving qualifications, so I am probably in no position to comment.
But I have no intention of doing an IAM course precisely for the attitude and approach you mention - my one and only contact with my local IAM showed the same bias towards, to my mind, excessive caution and blind adherence.
My view on driving has always been that it is a responsibility, a privilege, but also a pleasure. I take pride in my observation. I seek to improve my car control, both within and on the limit. And above all I am seeking to improve my patience and my courtesy (my weaknesses). But that does not stop me using my car, where appropriate, in a manner that means I enjoy all of it's performance.
And as I am responsible for my actions, I feel I should be some judge of what is and isn't appropriate for the road and conditions (speed, positioning, gaps left...). Not a popular viewpoint at the moment, but one that fits with my own sense of responsibility and individuality.
Take pride in your IAM pass...but take advice from those who are better still - John Lyons and his peers. They will, I hope, show you the next stage in driving ability.
I am an IAM member and Observer. I drive a Porsche and a TVR. I often enjoy brisk acceleration. I have accelerated briskly during tests - in fact I have "demonstrated the accelerative capabilities of the car" - after discussing with the examiner that I was going to (that was on my Rospa test).
I have also provided a chauffeur-like-ultra-low-acceleration-ultra-early-smooth-braking drive in the same car to demonstrate I am capable of either as and when I like.
If your Observer and Examiner commented on something you should take it under advisement - there is something there in your driving *you* may wish to look at in the future. Despite this you reached the standard and were able to demonstrate this - WELL DONE! You may think it was easy. Chances are, for *you*, it was! Some people pass in just four Observed drives! There are many more who require ten, twelve and more drives and still remain "borderline".
So. Well done - do not belittle your own achievement...there are others incapable of it. Take the criticism as something for *your* benefit and information.
I have also provided a chauffeur-like-ultra-low-acceleration-ultra-early-smooth-braking drive in the same car to demonstrate I am capable of either as and when I like.
If your Observer and Examiner commented on something you should take it under advisement - there is something there in your driving *you* may wish to look at in the future. Despite this you reached the standard and were able to demonstrate this - WELL DONE! You may think it was easy. Chances are, for *you*, it was! Some people pass in just four Observed drives! There are many more who require ten, twelve and more drives and still remain "borderline".
So. Well done - do not belittle your own achievement...there are others incapable of it. Take the criticism as something for *your* benefit and information.
Don said:
You may think it was easy. Chances are, for *you*, it was! Some people pass in just four Observed drives! There are many more who require ten, twelve and more drives and still remain "borderline".
Thanks for all your comments. I had 5 observed drives and the last one as at my request as the observer was happy after 4.
Perhaps thinking I am not good enough is the right attitude - at least it encourages me to carry on learning!
Don said:
Philbes said:
Perhaps thinking I am not good enough is the right attitude - at least it encourages me to carry on learning!
There is always more to learn. And the process of doing so is great fun!
Any suggestions from anyone as to any course I could now take to further improve my driving? I'm not interested in track driving I just want to be as good a driver as possible (by who's definition?) on the public roads.
Just to illustrate that examiners sometime open mouths and insert foot, on my last check test I got picked up for accelerating too quickly, and then later in the same debrief praised for using positive speed increase which "really pushed me back into my seat, and I like to feel that." In quote marks for obvious reasons.
Then he realised what he'd said and spent a couple of minutes trying to plait fog. Stuff it I knew what he meant, and he was right tbh, just liked to leave him to squirm for a minute.
Then he realised what he'd said and spent a couple of minutes trying to plait fog. Stuff it I knew what he meant, and he was right tbh, just liked to leave him to squirm for a minute.
Don said:
Well done - do not belittle your own achievement...there are others incapable of it.
Oh hello Don - is that you getting at me again?
OK, only joking. On Saturday I had a trip down to Eaton Socon to meet some other folk for a driving day. I drove a 75 mile route accompanied by a gentleman who is IAM, RoSPA Gold and an HPC member, and he was quite complimentary. He offered the opinion that with a bit more consistent attention to speed limits and one or two minor aspects, I ought to be able to pass the IAM test without much effort, and Rospa at maybe Silver grade, but he didn't think it was worth me bothering with those, as I would gain nothing that would be particularly useful. He felt I would be better advised to go to Cadence or Ride Drive if the aim is to make significant advances. Food for thought eh?
Oh, beg pardon - many congratulations Phil. Enjoy your success.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Don said:
Well done - do not belittle your own achievement...there are others incapable of it.
Oh hello Don - is that you getting at me again?
OK, only joking. On Saturday I had a trip down to Eaton Socon to meet some other folk for a driving day. I drove a 75 mile route accompanied by a gentleman who is IAM, RoSPA Gold and an HPC member, and he was quite complimentary. He offered the opinion that with a bit more consistent attention to speed limits and one or two minor aspects, I ought to be able to pass the IAM test without much effort, and Rospa at maybe Silver grade, but he didn't think it was worth me bothering with those, as I would gain nothing that would be particularly useful. He felt I would be better advised to go to Cadence or Ride Drive if the aim is to make significant advances. Food for thought eh?
Oh, beg pardon - many congratulations Phil. Enjoy your success.
Would that be a certain T5 estate ownwer Dave?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Rick448 said:
TripleS said:
Don said:
Well done - do not belittle your own achievement...there are others incapable of it.
Oh hello Don - is that you getting at me again?
OK, only joking. On Saturday I had a trip down to Eaton Socon to meet some other folk for a driving day. I drove a 75 mile route accompanied by a gentleman who is IAM, RoSPA Gold and an HPC member, and he was quite complimentary. He offered the opinion that with a bit more consistent attention to speed limits and one or two minor aspects, I ought to be able to pass the IAM test without much effort, and Rospa at maybe Silver grade, but he didn't think it was worth me bothering with those, as I would gain nothing that would be particularly useful. He felt I would be better advised to go to Cadence or Ride Drive if the aim is to make significant advances. Food for thought eh?
Oh, beg pardon - many congratulations Phil. Enjoy your success.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Would that be a certain T5 estate owner Dave?
Yes, a fellow rebel admittedly.
Am I taking too much comfort from his verdict? I don't know the right answer to that, but it seemed to be a useful degree of vindication, which is always welcome.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
When I did an advanced motorcyclists course twenty or so years ago (with off duty police motorcycle riders as instructors) NSL meant No Sodding Limit and if you didn't "make good progress" you failed. If you didn't use the available performance of your motorcycle you were deemed to be afraid of it and weren't put forward for the test.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
BliarOut said:
When I did an advanced motorcyclists course twenty or so years ago (with off duty police motorcycle riders as instructors) NSL meant No Sodding Limit and if you didn't "make good progress" you failed. If you didn't use the available performance of your motorcycle you were deemed to be afraid of it and weren't put forward for the test.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
Well it sounds like they were applying the rules they were trained under to you, which of course they shouldn't be doing because they had an exemption when they did it & you don't. (They incidently had no exemption when instructing you either.)
Yes, times have changed.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th July 21:49
BliarOut said:
When I did an advanced motorcyclists course twenty or so years ago (with off duty police motorcycle riders as instructors) NSL meant No Sodding Limit and if you didn't "make good progress" you failed. If you didn't use the available performance of your motorcycle you were deemed to be afraid of it and weren't put forward for the test.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
A friend has done at least one check-ride with bike IAM following, and he said the same thing...so I think it's just car IAM that are, shall we say, 'conservative' in their approach. Probably because they all drive cars nearly as old as them, which are dangerous over 60mph!!!
vonhosen said:
BliarOut said:
When I did an advanced motorcyclists course twenty or so years ago (with off duty police motorcycle riders as instructors) NSL meant No Sodding Limit and if you didn't "make good progress" you failed. If you didn't use the available performance of your motorcycle you were deemed to be afraid of it and weren't put forward for the test.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
Well it sounds like they were applying the rules they were trained under to you, which of course they shouldn't be doing because they had an exemption when they did it & you don't. (They incidently had no exemption when instructing you either.)
Yes, times have changed.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th July 21:49
It may not have been legal in the true sense of the word but the general rule was stick under the ton on single carriageways and 30 MPH zones were to be rigidly adhered to. The training was good and based on common sence not blind rule adherence. Back then it was known that speed wasn't the major cause of accidents, it was observation and anticipation that were key to staying safe. We were taught to ride to the same system employed by the police.
From what I've read the IAM seems to be about driving miss Daisy. Something like Ride Drive is probably more useful for the sorts of roads I drive on regularly.
No disrespect to those that have done it, but it doesn't sound like it's for me.
BliarOut said:
vonhosen said:
BliarOut said:
When I did an advanced motorcyclists course twenty or so years ago (with off duty police motorcycle riders as instructors) NSL meant No Sodding Limit and if you didn't "make good progress" you failed. If you didn't use the available performance of your motorcycle you were deemed to be afraid of it and weren't put forward for the test.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
My, how times have changed. It sounds to me like the IAM are running a slow cycle race these days.
Well it sounds like they were applying the rules they were trained under to you, which of course they shouldn't be doing because they had an exemption when they did it & you don't. (They incidently had no exemption when instructing you either.)
Yes, times have changed.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th July 21:49
It may not have been legal in the true sense of the word but the general rule was stick under the ton on single carriageways and 30 MPH zones were to be rigidly adhered to. The training was good and based on common sence not blind rule adherence. Back then it was known that speed wasn't the major cause of accidents, it was observation and anticipation that were key to staying safe. We were taught to ride to the same system employed by the police.
From what I've read the IAM seems to be about driving miss Daisy. Something like Ride Drive is probably more useful for the sorts of roads I drive on regularly.
No disrespect to those that have done it, but it doesn't sound like it's for me.
There's nobody who can legally instruct you to drive at speeds in excess of the limits without an exemption. Where they do, both you & they commit offences.
You don't need to learn to make "good progress" on road, if that is beyond the level of progress you can legally make on road.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th July 23:47
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