Road positioning in bends
Discussion
7db said:
StressedDave said:
7db said:
If only Dave could datalog the pink car's progress...
I've got plenty of representative data... and even such modern things as measures of radius and path
Wondered where you had got to. Conversation with Mike the other night about whether you were right or wrong ended in a draw. You have me to thank...
Assume that you'll be posting up some data to show a car tightening its line under power soon...
I'd disappeared off to recce some routes for an event. Mike is both right and wrong - mass doesn't transfer unless you've got a very long fuel tank but it's dynamic weight distribution that's important.
I've not got time to go back through the data at the mo so you'll have to make do with von's piccies for now...
Big Fat F'er said:
townrow said:
I've never had an accident that was my fault
Thought as much!
BFF
Other than being t-boned by a van on my bike and a pedestrian running into me by Leciester Square - I've had no accidents. But I've sure overted plenty others, by using ones nonce and being aware of other road users body/car attitude, and just paying attention which is alot more than can be said for 99% of other road users.
I'm sure riding a bike in central london will teach you more road awarness than any advanced driving instructor - not that I would in any way devalue what an advanced driving course gives in road saftey.
townrow said:
Big Fat F'er said:
townrow said:
I've never had an accident that was my fault
Thought as much!
BFF
Other than being t-boned by a van on my bike and a pedestrian running into me by Leciester Square - I've had no accidents.
I think he was possibly commenting on how many folk think the accidents aren't anything to do with them.
townrow said:
...paying attention which is alot more than can be said for 99% of other road users.
Correct. In fact if everyone else was as good as us there wouldn't be any problems (perhaps said a little tongue in cheek and ever so slightly facetiously)..
townrow said:
I'm sure riding a bike in central london will teach you more road awarness than any advanced driving instructor
Your evidence for that is what exactly.
Regards
Sally
Edited by Lady Godiva on Wednesday 9th August 17:18
Edited by Lady Godiva on Wednesday 9th August 17:20
townrow said:
I'm still alive......
doing 120 miles a day in the capital on a motorbike for 2 years will sharpen your senses like nothing else...... beleive me....
doing 120 miles a day in the capital on a motorbike for 2 years will sharpen your senses like nothing else...... beleive me....
I see motorcyclists testing that (staying alive) often. It doesn't appear that being on two wheels alone sharpens all motorcyclists senses sufficiently. The amount who place their safety almost completely in other peoples hands (filtering at speed etc) can be breath taking at times.
No doubt (as common with a lot of 4 wheel drivers, it isn't just 2 wheel) their perceived ability is rather better than their actual.
It's not been my experience that a motorcyclist will always be a better driver than someone who holds no bike licence when they come to do further car training.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 9th August 18:49
Well i would agree - as I would see or hear about one fatality every week at least - and I've seen some shocking behaviour by bikers - I'm on a bike i own thw road attitude - i'm sorry but i'm not one of those. Testing and paper dosn't mean your better than everyone - but if everyone took the test I would feel safer!
townrow said:
I've seen some shocking behaviour by bikers - I'm on a bike i own thw road attitude - i'm sorry but i'm not one of those.
It's amazing how few are.
When you said that your 2 years driving was giving you increased road awareness etc., how come it ain't good enough to avoid having those 2 accidents.
By the way, I've driven in, around and through London many many times over many many years. I've seen a lot of motorbike riders, both professional and otherwise. Keeping it nice and simple, some are absolute dickheads. Solos are not good riders. Only good solos are good riders. Strange thing is, they all think it's the others that are crap. Would it be too much of a wild guess to think that you would put yourself above average by any chance.
It might be just me but 14 years, a couple of track days, an odd karting session and 2 years professional biking don't sound that special. Not enough to start comparing yourself to Advanced Instructors, anyway.
BFF
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Thursday 10th August 12:19
Good thread, as for me 25 yrs, many at 60k miles+ , never had an accident, 1 speeding and wanted a kick for not seeing him (0/10 for observation), a few trackdays and some racing but after it all still very average (I think I'm great
, but know I'm not). I'm well past the point where I will improve with practice and have probably spent many years compounding my bad points but don't drive like a complete moron.
Is the cost of IAM the same as ROSPA and does anyone know anybody in S. Wales with either who can be recommended as I have read the tales of people being put off by certain styles of instruction/observation.
I've been trying the 'green' cornering line and as much as the benefits are obvious it can still feel a little unnatural, I have always driven somewhere between the green and red but do probably end up in a position of potential conflict too often, I'll keep trying!
, but know I'm not). I'm well past the point where I will improve with practice and have probably spent many years compounding my bad points but don't drive like a complete moron. Is the cost of IAM the same as ROSPA and does anyone know anybody in S. Wales with either who can be recommended as I have read the tales of people being put off by certain styles of instruction/observation.
I've been trying the 'green' cornering line and as much as the benefits are obvious it can still feel a little unnatural, I have always driven somewhere between the green and red but do probably end up in a position of potential conflict too often, I'll keep trying!
do80 said:
Good thread, as for me 25 yrs, many at 60k miles+ , never had an accident, 1 speeding and wanted a kick for not seeing him (0/10 for observation), a few trackdays and some racing but after it all still very average (I think I'm great, but know I'm not). I'm well past the point where I will improve with practice and have probably spent many years compounding my bad points but don't drive like a complete moron.
Is the cost of IAM the same as ROSPA and does anyone know anybody in S. Wales with either who can be recommended as I have read the tales of people being put off by certain styles of instruction/observation.
I've been trying the 'green' cornering line and as much as the benefits are obvious it can still feel a little unnatural, I have always driven somewhere between the green and red but do probably end up in a position of potential conflict too often, I'll keep trying!
, but know I'm not). I'm well past the point where I will improve with practice and have probably spent many years compounding my bad points but don't drive like a complete moron. Is the cost of IAM the same as ROSPA and does anyone know anybody in S. Wales with either who can be recommended as I have read the tales of people being put off by certain styles of instruction/observation.
I've been trying the 'green' cornering line and as much as the benefits are obvious it can still feel a little unnatural, I have always driven somewhere between the green and red but do probably end up in a position of potential conflict too often, I'll keep trying!
I can't comment on IAM or Rospa in South Wales, but I know some of the roads there are a hooners delight.
Stick with the green for now on road driving within the limit. There are many things that felt unnatural at first, but got easier with practice. You stuck with them so stick with this!!!
BFF
Big Fat F'er said:
townrow said:
I've seen some shocking behaviour by bikers - I'm on a bike i own thw road attitude - i'm sorry but i'm not one of those.
It's amazing how few are.
When you said that your 2 years driving was giving you increased road awareness etc., how come it ain't good enough to avoid having those 2 accidents.
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Thursday 10th August 12:19
I suppose no Advanced driving instructor has ever had an accident - because if he/her had he would die of embarresment and disapear up his own a**e.
I don't think all instructors think like you and are willing to look at things from other peoples perspective - it's like saying someone who has has a degree is cleverer than someone has not - tell that to Richard branson or Alan sugar! How arrogant can you be!
townrow said:
Big Fat F'er said:
townrow said:
I've seen some shocking behaviour by bikers - I'm on a bike i own thw road attitude - i'm sorry but i'm not one of those.
It's amazing how few are.
When you said that your 2 years driving was giving you increased road awareness etc., how come it ain't good enough to avoid having those 2 accidents.
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Thursday 10th August 12:19
I suppose no Advanced driving instructor has ever had an accident - because if he/her had he would die of embarresment and disapear up his own a**e.
I think you'll find that some driving instructors have indeed had collisions. Difference is, they will accept some of the responsibility, and not blame it all on the other person, even where someone ran into them.
townrow said:
I don't think all instructors think like you and are willing to look at things from other peoples perspective - it's like saying someone who has has a degree is cleverer than someone has not - tell that to Richard branson or Alan sugar! How arrogant can you be!
I can't really comment on that, as it makes no sense whatsoever. However, to try and explain further for you, I was commenting on your assertions about your skill and your experience. It never fails to amaze me how many drivers (or bikers) say everyone else is bad, but not them.
Thing is (see if you can follow this, nice and simple) I don't think you are as good as you think you are. When you start to try and explain why VH or StressedDave et al are wrong (cornering lines, etc), you had better have your facts straight, and the experience to back it up. A couple of trackdays is nothing. Trust me, nothing. Driving a bike in London. Wow. Your assertion that your chosen position was safe and gave better vision was not only dangerous but factually incorrect.
By the way, Branson and Sugar begin in uppercase (that's a big letter to you).
BFF
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Saturday 12th August 15:40
BFF'r - I guess you think people call you that because they like you?
You have very selective reading ability - try reading all of what I write in threads - I do indeed have an open mind that is willing to learn and understand what others are telling me.
Police drivers take advanced driving courses - well most of them drive so dangerously I'm not suprised they write off so many cars and kill so many people each year - and try to defend that with some lame 'They must be better than you I can use big letters' crap.
You do nothing for the Advanced mostorists cause. The other people here have taken time to try and explain why it's safer - and if you took time to notice I agree with them.
And just to clarify something I do not believe I am better than anyone else and above learning - I welcome advice and look to learn everyday - sorry if I have opinions that differ from yours maybe you should try listening sometimes instead of using your intelligent brain to put others down.
Have fun
David
You have very selective reading ability - try reading all of what I write in threads - I do indeed have an open mind that is willing to learn and understand what others are telling me.
Police drivers take advanced driving courses - well most of them drive so dangerously I'm not suprised they write off so many cars and kill so many people each year - and try to defend that with some lame 'They must be better than you I can use big letters' crap.
You do nothing for the Advanced mostorists cause. The other people here have taken time to try and explain why it's safer - and if you took time to notice I agree with them.
And just to clarify something I do not believe I am better than anyone else and above learning - I welcome advice and look to learn everyday - sorry if I have opinions that differ from yours maybe you should try listening sometimes instead of using your intelligent brain to put others down.
Have fun
David
townrow said:
BFF'r - I guess you think people call you that because they like you?
I chose the handle to make it easier for little scroats and scuffers to remember. I am totally indifferent as to whether anyone 'likes' me.
townrow said:
You have very selective reading ability - try reading all of what I write in threads - I do indeed have an open mind that is willing to learn and understand what others are telling me.
Good. That way you'll learn more.
townrow said:
Police drivers take advanced driving courses - well most of them drive so dangerously I'm not suprised they write off so many cars and kill so many people each year - and try to defend that with some lame 'They must be better than you I can use big letters' crap.
It doesn't need defending. Bigger men than you have tried to write deliberately antogonistic comments that are so silly they don't need a response.
townrow said:
You do nothing for the Advanced mostorists cause. The other people here have taken time to try and explain why it's safer - and if you took time to notice I agree with them.
So presumeably you'll be taking the green line from now on then. Excellent, you've listened to advice and learned from it.
townrow said:
And just to clarify something I do not believe I am better than anyone else and above learning - I welcome advice and look to learn everyday - sorry if I have opinions that differ from yours maybe you should try listening sometimes instead of using your intelligent brain to put others down.
Different opinions are good. Read through your comments and it looks more like you were disagreeing with what was being said. Maybe its the way you wrote it. I wouldn't try and put you down, you are doing that yourself.
townrow said:
Have fun
I usually do.
BFF
This is a very informative and thought provoking thread....well apart from some of the stuff on page 4. 
I discovered the 'green bend line' through the Ridedrive website about a year ago and feel far safer for now using it (I've got over the uncomfortable stage). It allows me to drive quicker than I could before because I can see more easily what hazards may lie ahead.
I discovered the 'green bend line' through the Ridedrive website about a year ago and feel far safer for now using it (I've got over the uncomfortable stage). It allows me to drive quicker than I could before because I can see more easily what hazards may lie ahead.
boxsey said:
This is a very informative and thought provoking thread....well apart from some of the stuff on page 4. .
.No idea what you mean, Boxsey.
boxsey said:
I discovered the 'green bend line' through the Ridedrive website about a year ago and feel far safer for now using it (I've got over the uncomfortable stage). It allows me to drive quicker than I could before because I can see more easily what hazards may lie ahead.
Well said (good site innit). Safer and quicker. Fick me, the green line must be okay then.
BFF
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