Discussion
Hi Folks.
Had my check run a few evenings ago. Counting on fingers & thumbs tells me that was my 7th observed run.
Went reasonably ok but apparently deteriorated a bit towards the end. Put in for the test though & waiting for a date to come through.
I was picked up on...
1. "Your hands seem very busy on the wheel"
I've just read the steering thread(s) and very helpfull they are too. Now trying to shuffle more but any other comments?
and 2)
In the twisties, got picked up for braking a little too abruptly & jolting the checker slightly. Advice to get off the gas & brake earlier on in the approach. Plan earlier?
Fair enough, this has always been a bit of a niggle for me apparently & we did work on it a bit on the first few runs. Subconsciously, am I wanting to keep the speed up too much in the twisties I wonder? Not wanting to be seen as not making progress?
It's a T5 auto so even with an intervention to 3, there's not a lot of engine braking compared to a manual and I suspect that's still catching me out somewhat.
My observer has commented that they were quite minor levels of criticism but of course I want to get it better!
Anyway, without further comment from me at this stage - the best thing on this forum is the wealth of experience/opinions and it's surprising how hearing the same concept expressed in different ways can help.
So let's hear the suggestions please!
Cheers - Dunc.
Had my check run a few evenings ago. Counting on fingers & thumbs tells me that was my 7th observed run.
Went reasonably ok but apparently deteriorated a bit towards the end. Put in for the test though & waiting for a date to come through.
I was picked up on...
1. "Your hands seem very busy on the wheel"
I've just read the steering thread(s) and very helpfull they are too. Now trying to shuffle more but any other comments?
and 2)
In the twisties, got picked up for braking a little too abruptly & jolting the checker slightly. Advice to get off the gas & brake earlier on in the approach. Plan earlier?
Fair enough, this has always been a bit of a niggle for me apparently & we did work on it a bit on the first few runs. Subconsciously, am I wanting to keep the speed up too much in the twisties I wonder? Not wanting to be seen as not making progress?
It's a T5 auto so even with an intervention to 3, there's not a lot of engine braking compared to a manual and I suspect that's still catching me out somewhat.
My observer has commented that they were quite minor levels of criticism but of course I want to get it better!
Anyway, without further comment from me at this stage - the best thing on this forum is the wealth of experience/opinions and it's surprising how hearing the same concept expressed in different ways can help.
So let's hear the suggestions please!
Cheers - Dunc.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
1. "Your hands seem very busy on the wheel"
Try to start steering earlier... you'll find you probably use less steering angle as a result and there'll be less need to actually shuffle. If you are turning tightly make sure that your shuffles encompass 180 degrees of steering lock at a time.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
2. In the twisties, got picked up for braking a little too abruptly & jolting the checker slightly. Advice to get off the gas & brake earlier on in the approach. Plan earlier?
It's never too early to plan, but I'd potentially advocate braking later. The reasons are two fold - if you start braking early you're making a decision about your entry speed to the hazard with less clear vision of how severe hazard is - braking later gives you a better view in and thus more information about the speed loss you need. The other reason is that a firmer brake pedal (i.e. more braking force) makes it easier to modulate the pedal pressure for the chosen rate of deceleration. There's also an issue whereby the longer the braking distance, the greater effect an error in pedal pressure has on the stopping distance and the more likely it is that you'll jump of the brakes to turn into the corner.
The other thing to try is to develop the use of the phrase 'start to...' as part of the commentary, e.g.
"Coming off the gas and start to brake. Coming smoothly off the brakes tranferring to the throttle, applying a little power to stabilise the car in the corner and start to steer".
The human body is more sensitive to changes in acceleration than absolute levels of acceleration - by making yourself slow down the transitions with verbal cues you'll make them smoother and not jerk the neck of your checker.
Consider also picking a point in advance of the corner and say to yourself "I'll get the speed right by there". If you give yourself a couple of seconds to come off the brakes and reapply the throttle it will allow you to be smoother with both.
Your speed in feet per second is about 1.5 times your speed in MPH, so at sixty you'll need 180 feet to give yourself two seconds space for this.
Your speed in feet per second is about 1.5 times your speed in MPH, so at sixty you'll need 180 feet to give yourself two seconds space for this.
StressedDave said:
The human body is more sensitive to changes in acceleration than absolute levels of acceleration - by making yourself slow down the transitions with verbal cues you'll make them smoother and not jerk the neck of your checker.
In engineering parlance "jerk" is the rate of change of acceleration and is used by lift designers to make lifts accelerate without the occupants feeling a thing. What it means for braking is that you should come on and off the brakes gently and progressively rather than jabbing them. You can still brake just as firmly but be progressive how you get to that level of braking effort and, just as importantly, release the load on the brake pedal just as progressively.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
Test just arranged for Sunday - fingers crossed.
That was unfortunately cancelled. Until today, my birthday as it happens.
Bit of a risk that, could've put a downer on the birthday but I'm trying to ignore birthdays now anyway!
Swinging wildy between "No problem" and "I don't stand a chuffing chance" but got myself to the meeting point.
An hour & a bit later I heard those magic words "You have reached the required standard"
Other words were heard which included "excellent drive" and "superb commentary" (I took the advice of the group senior Observer to "don't let the bugger get a word in edgeways or they'll only ask what sign you've just passed"
) So chuffed to little mint balls & now off for a pint or two.
Cheers all & thanks for the words of advice.
Well done, and a belated many happy returns. I hope you got many birthday kisses!!!
How did you find the duration of the test? In the PYADT, and on the course, it was always suggested that the drive would be up to 1.5 hours. Mine was much shorter, and it seems to be the norm nowadays (speaking to other recently passed Associates).
I would like to think that I was showing so much promise that the Examiner only needed a short while to assess me. He seemed to be happy to let me drive merrily along, although that may have been the short skirt (me, not him!!).
Congratulations again and well done.
Regards
Sally
How did you find the duration of the test? In the PYADT, and on the course, it was always suggested that the drive would be up to 1.5 hours. Mine was much shorter, and it seems to be the norm nowadays (speaking to other recently passed Associates).
I would like to think that I was showing so much promise that the Examiner only needed a short while to assess me. He seemed to be happy to let me drive merrily along, although that may have been the short skirt (me, not him!!).
Congratulations again and well done.
Regards
Sally
Lady Godiva said:
Well done, and a belated many happy returns. I hope you got many birthday kisses!!!
Sadly not a one...
Lady Godiva said:
How did you find the duration of the test? In the PYADT, and on the course, it was always suggested that the drive would be up to 1.5 hours. Mine was much shorter, and it seems to be the norm nowadays
It was about 1hr 20mins including the brief & debrief so I think the drive was only just over the hour.
Started off with some dual carriageway, then off into the twisties. Back into urbanish areas & onto the m-way followed by a mix of urban & rural & urban again taking us back to the start point.
I'd worked hard on commentary skills and gave commentary for the full duration of the drive. It certainly helped me both in concentration & in effect by 'showing off' points of knowledge that it's hard for the examiner to determine otherwise. He said he was impressed anyway
The Mark Kendrick commentary DVD from eBay worked wonders, I know there's another available from a company that a PHer is involved in & I'd like to get hold of that one too. The sample looked very good, just need to remember which company it was! Think that was a little more expensive though.
Watching a DVD of someone putting the system into practice & commenting upon it (& other things too) helped slot everything into place for me as did the previous advice on this thread.
Lady Godiva said:
He seemed to be happy to let me drive merrily along, although that may have been the short skirt
I considered that option but my legs are banned under the Geneva Convention!
Cheers - Dunc.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
The Mark Kendrick commentary DVD from eBay worked wonders, I know there's another available from a company that a PHer is involved in & I'd like to get hold of that one too. The sample looked very good, just need to remember which company it was! Think that was a little more expensive though.
It's from us : www.cadence.co.uk and IIRC we're 95p cheaper than Mark's
StressedDave said:
It's from us : www.cadence.co.uk and IIRC we're 95p cheaper than Mark's
Hmm, I paid £15 for Hugh's and £22.25 for Mark's.
StressedDave said:
It's from us : www.cadence.co.uk and IIRC we're 95p cheaper than Mark's
That's the one! For some reason, I had the idea it was much more expensive and I actually picked Mark's up from ebay (new) - think he was experimenting with different sales methods. You might want to put a paypal button on that page to make it a bit easier for people to buy on impulse but you'll be getting an order from me in any event. Just because I've passed IAM doesn't mean I want to stop learning!
Got you bookmarked now for when I find enough change down the sofa for one of your courses.
Cheers.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
StressedDave said:
It's from us : www.cadence.co.uk and IIRC we're 95p cheaper than Mark's
That's the one! For some reason, I had the idea it was much more expensive and I actually picked Mark's up from ebay (new) - think he was experimenting with different sales methods. You might want to put a paypal button on that page to make it a bit easier for people to buy on impulse but you'll be getting an order from me in any event. Just because I've passed IAM doesn't mean I want to stop learning!
Got you bookmarked now for when I find enough change down the sofa for one of your courses.
Cheers.
Dear P B Fool - I got the Cadence one several months ago, and I can recommend it. It certainly helped with my commentary, and the sales staff were more than helpful every step of the way.
Whats amazed me on here is how many say they did the commentary for the duration of the test. I waited until I was asked, then I did it for about 10 minutes, then he told me to stop as everything was okay. He later said it was a very good one, so at least I did something correct!
Enjoy your DVD, and sorry you missed out on the Birthday kisses.
Regards
Sally
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