Discussion
Just posting this topic about IAM what exactely are the benefits? I know it's meant to make you a better driver and all that but does it really make a difference on insurance? and if so how do you go about taking the test etc. I'm in Derbyshire by the way if location makes a difference!
car.chic said:
Just posting this topic about IAM what exactely are the benefits? I know it's meant to make you a better driver and all that but does it really make a difference on insurance? and if so how do you go about taking the test etc. I'm in Derbyshire by the way if location makes a difference!
If you are doing for insurance I think you'll be disappointed.
If you are doing it with an open mind out of a desire to experience, learn or just even re-enforce your already good driving, it may be of benefit.
It should teach some discipline - if you need it, and it should teach decent observation, awareness and anticipation. Looking back I see it as a step in the right direction.
It does depend who you get in with though - some are decent real world people, some are anal octogenarain speed limit obsessives
I have found no financial benefits whatsoever.
It does depend who you get in with though - some are decent real world people, some are anal octogenarain speed limit obsessives
I have found no financial benefits whatsoever.
Edited by Joe911 on Thursday 10th August 17:00
I'd consider it as the next step in your driving education.
You've done the test and passed that ..... you've got experience from driving every day ..... this is the next step.
It gives you a good basic all-round grounding on preparation, awareness and anticipation, whilst giving you the basics in ensuring that you have full control of your car at all times.
Admittedly, although it's the next rung on the driving ladder, there are alternatives to the IAM. But for what you get with the costs involved, it's a no brainer (IMHO).
Some agree and disagree with some of it's methods (a simple read through this forum will show that), and of course you have good and [sometimes] bad observers - note I say bad in context of being being able to 'click' with them. And there's the perception of them being old fuddy duddies - although people like Don (who I'm sure will be along shortly to give his view) and Tony H are extremes to this 'perception'.
Bottom line - for £85 - worth every penny. And if you're really sold on it - then move onto the next rung.
Just my tuppence worth.
K
You've done the test and passed that ..... you've got experience from driving every day ..... this is the next step.
It gives you a good basic all-round grounding on preparation, awareness and anticipation, whilst giving you the basics in ensuring that you have full control of your car at all times.
Admittedly, although it's the next rung on the driving ladder, there are alternatives to the IAM. But for what you get with the costs involved, it's a no brainer (IMHO).
Some agree and disagree with some of it's methods (a simple read through this forum will show that), and of course you have good and [sometimes] bad observers - note I say bad in context of being being able to 'click' with them. And there's the perception of them being old fuddy duddies - although people like Don (who I'm sure will be along shortly to give his view) and Tony H are extremes to this 'perception'.
Bottom line - for £85 - worth every penny. And if you're really sold on it - then move onto the next rung.
Just my tuppence worth.
K
now that does sound a bit scary!!!!!Although there are no insurance companies that I know of that offer an advertised discount for an IAM pass it is worth doing the rounds at renewal time as some do take account of this. It may also be worth goihg though a broker as they may have access to this sort of info. and know which companies will view it favourably.
However, if you also go along with the general IAM blurb about being 70% less likely to be involved in an RTA due to improved skill level ask yourself this. How much is my insurance excess. If the IAM experience saves me from one blame or part blame bump and saves me this is it worth it. Not to mention the loss of your NCB for the next three years. Even if you are not to blame for a bump and it costs you nothing financially, there is still the agro. of having your car off the road for repair blah, blah. So even avoiding one of these due to better anticipation of some numpties actions will also have benefits.
At a lesser level you will also find you get better fuel economy, use brakes less and thus increase life of discs.
(And that's assuming that they are minor enough to avoid any injury !)
However, if you also go along with the general IAM blurb about being 70% less likely to be involved in an RTA due to improved skill level ask yourself this. How much is my insurance excess. If the IAM experience saves me from one blame or part blame bump and saves me this is it worth it. Not to mention the loss of your NCB for the next three years. Even if you are not to blame for a bump and it costs you nothing financially, there is still the agro. of having your car off the road for repair blah, blah. So even avoiding one of these due to better anticipation of some numpties actions will also have benefits.
At a lesser level you will also find you get better fuel economy, use brakes less and thus increase life of discs.
(And that's assuming that they are minor enough to avoid any injury !)
Edited by over_the_hill on Friday 11th August 21:59
Go for it for the reasons above...
www.iam.org.uk/iamgroups/groupdirectory/
Should take you to your local Group...
BOF
PS - Looks like this mob have a sense of humour
www.phph.demon.co.uk/iamcar/locate.htm
www.iam.org.uk/iamgroups/groupdirectory/
Should take you to your local Group...
BOF
PS - Looks like this mob have a sense of humour
www.phph.demon.co.uk/iamcar/locate.htm
Edited by BOF on Saturday 12th August 11:23
I passed the IAM 'test' a month ago. Will I incorporate all that I was taught into my driving - no. Has it improved my driving - yes.
Will it reduce my insurance cost - no. The companies that offer discounts for IAM are also very expensive. The cheapest with discount was 30% more than I now pay without IAM discount.
Will I become an observer - no. I don't feel that I believe enough in the total IAM 'message' to pass it on to others.
However, I recommend that you do it. Your driving will improve. Ask your employer for, at least, a contribution to the £85 cost.
Will it reduce my insurance cost - no. The companies that offer discounts for IAM are also very expensive. The cheapest with discount was 30% more than I now pay without IAM discount.
Will I become an observer - no. I don't feel that I believe enough in the total IAM 'message' to pass it on to others.
However, I recommend that you do it. Your driving will improve. Ask your employer for, at least, a contribution to the £85 cost.
BOF said:
Top quality - Well done - certainly helps to remove the sigma of the IAM. I'd love to see their newsletter.
K
Philbes,
If you are personally happy at having passed the 'O' level of advanced driving - good on you, I am sorry that you do not feel the message worth passing on.
I am out every week 'passing the message on' - sometimes it is not convenient for me, it costs me around £600 per year in petrol to meet my Associates and I sometimes wonder if it worth the effort.
But, if advanced driver training can save just ONE life?
BOF.
If you are personally happy at having passed the 'O' level of advanced driving - good on you, I am sorry that you do not feel the message worth passing on.
I am out every week 'passing the message on' - sometimes it is not convenient for me, it costs me around £600 per year in petrol to meet my Associates and I sometimes wonder if it worth the effort.
But, if advanced driver training can save just ONE life?
BOF.
Philbes said:
I passed the IAM 'test' a month ago. Will I incorporate all that I was taught into my driving - no. Has it improved my driving - yes.
Will it reduce my insurance cost - no. The companies that offer discounts for IAM are also very expensive. The cheapest with discount was 30% more than I now pay without IAM discount.
Will I become an observer - no. I don't feel that I believe enough in the total IAM 'message' to pass it on to others.
However, I recommend that you do it. Your driving will improve. Ask your employer for, at least, a contribution to the £85 cost.
Will it reduce my insurance cost - no. The companies that offer discounts for IAM are also very expensive. The cheapest with discount was 30% more than I now pay without IAM discount.
Will I become an observer - no. I don't feel that I believe enough in the total IAM 'message' to pass it on to others.
However, I recommend that you do it. Your driving will improve. Ask your employer for, at least, a contribution to the £85 cost.
Edited by BOF on Saturday 12th August 20:48
[quote=BOF]
If you are personally happy at having passed the 'O' level of advanced driving - good on you, I am sorry that you do not feel the message worth passing on.
I am out every week 'passing the message on' - sometimes it is not convenient for me, it costs me around £600 per year in petrol to meet my Associates and I sometimes wonder if it worth the effort.
But, if advanced driver training can save just ONE life?
BOF.
I'm impressed with your dedication - 80 miles a week meeting associates?
My concern in 'passing on the message' as it was given to me is the insistance (at least with my observer and examiner) on very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping. This visually annoyed following drivers and, on a number of occassions, lead to dangerous overtaking.
If you are personally happy at having passed the 'O' level of advanced driving - good on you, I am sorry that you do not feel the message worth passing on.
I am out every week 'passing the message on' - sometimes it is not convenient for me, it costs me around £600 per year in petrol to meet my Associates and I sometimes wonder if it worth the effort.
But, if advanced driver training can save just ONE life?
BOF.
I'm impressed with your dedication - 80 miles a week meeting associates?
My concern in 'passing on the message' as it was given to me is the insistance (at least with my observer and examiner) on very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping. This visually annoyed following drivers and, on a number of occassions, lead to dangerous overtaking.
Philbes,
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
In the time it is taking me to post this comment, someone has died...or is just about to die, in a road 'accident' on the average day.
And every death on the roads involves parents, friends, family, neighbours..., the Trafpol who lose sleep after clearing up the mess and having to inform the parents/wifes/children...maybe up to 1000 hearts broken?
Until the Government stop frigging around with Elastoplast for a large wound, all we amateurs can do is try to stop the bleeding?
BOF.
PS - X Type AWD - 24 to the gallon - Optimax at nearly a fiver a gallon - nearer £500 a year including demo drives, I exaggerated, - still a bargain?
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
In the time it is taking me to post this comment, someone has died...or is just about to die, in a road 'accident' on the average day.
And every death on the roads involves parents, friends, family, neighbours..., the Trafpol who lose sleep after clearing up the mess and having to inform the parents/wifes/children...maybe up to 1000 hearts broken?
Until the Government stop frigging around with Elastoplast for a large wound, all we amateurs can do is try to stop the bleeding?
BOF.
PS - X Type AWD - 24 to the gallon - Optimax at nearly a fiver a gallon - nearer £500 a year including demo drives, I exaggerated, - still a bargain?
BOF - You make some good points. Ir's just that becoming an observer and suggesting to others that they should drive in a manner that I don't totally believe in myself seems rather hypocritical. However, after your comments I will give it further thought.
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
Philbes said:
My concern in 'passing on the message' as it was given to me is the insistance (at least with my observer and examiner) on very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping. This visually annoyed following drivers and, on a number of occassions, lead to dangerous overtaking.
I'll just comment briefly on that.
Drivers on the road find all sorts of things annoying. If you accelerate gently away they find they can't just stamp on the gas pedal like they always have (using excessive petrol and throwing their passengers around) and so they get annoyed. If you brake early and smoothly and have plenty of time to observe the hazard ahead and smoothly drive through it they can't just heave up to it at speed and stamp on the brake like they always have - and so they get annoyed. If you adhere to the twenty mile an hour speed limit directly outside a school - they get annoyed and overtake so they can do 40. If you stick to 50 through the roadworks because you expect there to be speed cameras - they get annoyed - and often swerve around you and accelerate - sometimes right into the GATSO's clutches - nice! If you drive a bright red Porsche and accelerate hard in front of them so they get left behind they get annoyed and then they drive like tools well over the speed limit until they catch up then they tailgate and swerve about wildly wanting to overtake.
In short - simply BEING THERE is often quite enough to some c**ts annoyed.
Tough.
I refuse to feel "pushed" by other drivers and I don't care if they get annoyed. This isn't because I feel "holier than them" as it were... Nope. Its because I am going to drive smoothly and safely, assertively but not aggressively and at the most progressive speed that is safe as much as I possibly can. Usually this means I make unobtrusive, quiet progress. Nobody notices me..and I just get on with it. Occasionally some c**t takes exception. If its my fault I'll take the blame and say I'm sorry. In my experience, though, its no-one's fault. The c**t in question is going to get annoyed no matter what or who is in their way and no matter how thar driver is driving.
I guess my message is this: "Never feel pushed by another vehicle or driver to drive in any other manner than the one you consider to be safe, smooth and how you wish to drive."
Morning all!
As Kinky mentioned above, I'm probably about as far removed from the fuddy-duddy-stereotype as you can get (25yr old Elise driving observer). I fully agree with (most of) the comments above - it really will be valuable.
As VonHosen put it - if you're doing it for the insurance alone then to be honest it's not really worth it. There are companies that offer a discount but in my case the ones that do start at £5k for me in my car. Doh! 10% from that isn't a huge help. HOWEVER, if you're doing it to improve your driving, learn discipline on the road and take your driving skills to the next level it will be the perfect point for you to do that.
The "skills for life" package is £85 and gives you everything you need for the course; "How to pass" book, highway code, test fee, initial year's memebership.
The next step forward would be www.iam.org, whereby you can find your nearest group. Contact them and explain you'd like to purchase the "Skills for Life" package and hey presto - you're well on your way
As Kinky mentioned above, I'm probably about as far removed from the fuddy-duddy-stereotype as you can get (25yr old Elise driving observer). I fully agree with (most of) the comments above - it really will be valuable.
As VonHosen put it - if you're doing it for the insurance alone then to be honest it's not really worth it. There are companies that offer a discount but in my case the ones that do start at £5k for me in my car. Doh! 10% from that isn't a huge help. HOWEVER, if you're doing it to improve your driving, learn discipline on the road and take your driving skills to the next level it will be the perfect point for you to do that.
The "skills for life" package is £85 and gives you everything you need for the course; "How to pass" book, highway code, test fee, initial year's memebership.
The next step forward would be www.iam.org, whereby you can find your nearest group. Contact them and explain you'd like to purchase the "Skills for Life" package and hey presto - you're well on your way
Don said:
Philbes said:
My concern in 'passing on the message' as it was given to me is the insistance (at least with my observer and examiner) on very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping. This visually annoyed following drivers and, on a number of occassions, lead to dangerous overtaking.
I'll just comment briefly on that.
Drivers on the road find all sorts of things annoying. If you accelerate gently away they find they can't just stamp on the gas pedal like they always have (using excessive petrol and throwing their passengers around) and so they get annoyed. If you brake early and smoothly and have plenty of time to observe the hazard ahead and smoothly drive through it they can't just heave up to it at speed and stamp on the brake like they always have - and so they get annoyed. If you adhere to the twenty mile an hour speed limit directly outside a school - they get annoyed and overtake so they can do 40. If you stick to 50 through the roadworks because you expect there to be speed cameras - they get annoyed - and often swerve around you and accelerate - sometimes right into the GATSO's clutches - nice! If you drive a bright red Porsche and accelerate hard in front of them so they get left behind they get annoyed and then they drive like tools well over the speed limit until they catch up then they tailgate and swerve about wildly wanting to overtake.
In short - simply BEING THERE is often quite enough to some c**ts annoyed.
Tough.
I refuse to feel "pushed" by other drivers and I don't care if they get annoyed. This isn't because I feel "holier than them" as it were... Nope. Its because I am going to drive smoothly and safely, assertively but not aggressively and at the most progressive speed that is safe as much as I possibly can. Usually this means I make unobtrusive, quiet progress. Nobody notices me..and I just get on with it. Occasionally some c**t takes exception. If its my fault I'll take the blame and say I'm sorry. In my experience, though, its no-one's fault. The c**t in question is going to get annoyed no matter what or who is in their way and no matter how thar driver is driving.
I guess my message is this: "Never feel pushed by another vehicle or driver to drive in any other manner than the one you consider to be safe, smooth and how you wish to drive."
I agree with everything you say. It's just that in the case of my observer/examiner the 'slow away' and 'slow in' was, in my opinion, taken to extremes. Even my wife asked why I was driving so slowly when I was practising and she used to complain that I drove too fast!
Car.Chic - cheaper insurance, not in a million years. Show you safe driving principles that give safe smooth driving. Absolutely.
Philbes - I kinda know where you're coming from, and I think it is a sensible approach to hold back from Observing if you genuinely ain't 100% buying in to the IAM. To pass the information across you've got to believe in it. However, if you did it, you could help to encourage those 25 year olds. As a matter of interest, which bits won't you be incorporating into your driving (your first post).
Re the 'slow' away comments, it will always be a bit subjective. However, it doesn't have to be slow, and certainly shouldn't be excessive (which is subjective again). Did they explain why they wanted you to pull away slower, or was it just "do it like this". When you did it were you 100% silky smooth (a passenger wouldn't notice any changes) or was there jerk when you changed gear, or during acceleration/deceleration. Was there concern over grip, or the forces on the car causing inbalance or weight shift.
Or was it white knuckles and a "slow down for ficks sake".
I'm not saying you were any or all of the above. I just wondered what feedback they were giving you.
BFF
Philbes - I kinda know where you're coming from, and I think it is a sensible approach to hold back from Observing if you genuinely ain't 100% buying in to the IAM. To pass the information across you've got to believe in it. However, if you did it, you could help to encourage those 25 year olds. As a matter of interest, which bits won't you be incorporating into your driving (your first post).
Re the 'slow' away comments, it will always be a bit subjective. However, it doesn't have to be slow, and certainly shouldn't be excessive (which is subjective again). Did they explain why they wanted you to pull away slower, or was it just "do it like this". When you did it were you 100% silky smooth (a passenger wouldn't notice any changes) or was there jerk when you changed gear, or during acceleration/deceleration. Was there concern over grip, or the forces on the car causing inbalance or weight shift.
Or was it white knuckles and a "slow down for ficks sake".
I'm not saying you were any or all of the above. I just wondered what feedback they were giving you.
BFF
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Monday 14th August 12:24
Big Fat F'er
I can encourage younger people to become involved in IAM without becoming an observer myself and I intend to continue my membership. Our local group is not very active and seems to have very infrequent meetings – 4 or 5 a year. So I will see if I can help there.
The bits I haven’t incorporated into my driving are the, to me, excessively slow pull-aways and excessively long periods of slowing down. I may also still occasionally change gear and brake at the same time when on a dry, straight section of road.
I agree that ‘slow away’, etc. is subjective. My observer gave no feedback other than my rate of acceleration was greater than necessary (“boy racer tendencies”
. No explanation given. I wasn’t jerky and both my observer and ‘examiner’ seemed to feel safe and comfortable. During my test I kept pull-aways very slow (at least they seemed so to me) and the ‘examiner’ still commented that I had a tendency to pull away ‘faster than necessary’. The only other comment from the ‘examiner’ was that I could have made better use of the view across a long curving dip in the road to obtain an advanced view of a approaching road junction at which cars were stopped waiting to turn right – he was absolutely right about that.
At the rate I was encouraged to accelerate, stop and corner there was never any problem regarding grip or weight transfer – my old 1968 Ford Escort (RWD) on cross-ply tyres would have handled those speeds! By chance none of my five observed drives or the test were on other than dry roads (except a short local shower when driving through Evesham on one drive).
Despite my slight reservations as above I feel that my involvement with the IAM has definitely improved my driving and I will encourage others to do likewise. As some-one else said - it’s a bargain for £85.
I can encourage younger people to become involved in IAM without becoming an observer myself and I intend to continue my membership. Our local group is not very active and seems to have very infrequent meetings – 4 or 5 a year. So I will see if I can help there.
The bits I haven’t incorporated into my driving are the, to me, excessively slow pull-aways and excessively long periods of slowing down. I may also still occasionally change gear and brake at the same time when on a dry, straight section of road.
I agree that ‘slow away’, etc. is subjective. My observer gave no feedback other than my rate of acceleration was greater than necessary (“boy racer tendencies”
. No explanation given. I wasn’t jerky and both my observer and ‘examiner’ seemed to feel safe and comfortable. During my test I kept pull-aways very slow (at least they seemed so to me) and the ‘examiner’ still commented that I had a tendency to pull away ‘faster than necessary’. The only other comment from the ‘examiner’ was that I could have made better use of the view across a long curving dip in the road to obtain an advanced view of a approaching road junction at which cars were stopped waiting to turn right – he was absolutely right about that. At the rate I was encouraged to accelerate, stop and corner there was never any problem regarding grip or weight transfer – my old 1968 Ford Escort (RWD) on cross-ply tyres would have handled those speeds! By chance none of my five observed drives or the test were on other than dry roads (except a short local shower when driving through Evesham on one drive).
Despite my slight reservations as above I feel that my involvement with the IAM has definitely improved my driving and I will encourage others to do likewise. As some-one else said - it’s a bargain for £85.
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