Discussion
Philbes said:
Big Fat F'er
I can encourage younger people to become involved in IAM without becoming an observer myself and I intend to continue my membership. Our local group is not very active and seems to have very infrequent meetings – 4 or 5 a year. So I will see if I can help there.
The bits I haven’t incorporated into my driving are the, to me, excessively slow pull-aways and excessively long periods of slowing down. I may also still occasionally change gear and brake at the same time when on a dry, straight section of road.
I agree that ‘slow away’, etc. is subjective. My observer gave no feedback other than my rate of acceleration was greater than necessary (“boy racer tendencies”
. No explanation given. I wasn’t jerky and both my observer and ‘examiner’ seemed to feel safe and comfortable. During my test I kept pull-aways very slow (at least they seemed so to me) and the ‘examiner’ still commented that I had a tendency to pull away ‘faster than necessary’. The only other comment from the ‘examiner’ was that I could have made better use of the view across a long curving dip in the road to obtain an advanced view of a approaching road junction at which cars were stopped waiting to turn right – he was absolutely right about that.
At the rate I was encouraged to accelerate, stop and corner there was never any problem regarding grip or weight transfer – my old 1968 Ford Escort (RWD) on cross-ply tyres would have handled those speeds! By chance none of my five observed drives or the test were on other than dry roads (except a short local shower when driving through Evesham on one drive).
Despite my slight reservations as above I feel that my involvement with the IAM has definitely improved my driving and I will encourage others to do likewise. As some-one else said - it’s a bargain for £85.
I can encourage younger people to become involved in IAM without becoming an observer myself and I intend to continue my membership. Our local group is not very active and seems to have very infrequent meetings – 4 or 5 a year. So I will see if I can help there.
The bits I haven’t incorporated into my driving are the, to me, excessively slow pull-aways and excessively long periods of slowing down. I may also still occasionally change gear and brake at the same time when on a dry, straight section of road.
I agree that ‘slow away’, etc. is subjective. My observer gave no feedback other than my rate of acceleration was greater than necessary (“boy racer tendencies”
. No explanation given. I wasn’t jerky and both my observer and ‘examiner’ seemed to feel safe and comfortable. During my test I kept pull-aways very slow (at least they seemed so to me) and the ‘examiner’ still commented that I had a tendency to pull away ‘faster than necessary’. The only other comment from the ‘examiner’ was that I could have made better use of the view across a long curving dip in the road to obtain an advanced view of a approaching road junction at which cars were stopped waiting to turn right – he was absolutely right about that. At the rate I was encouraged to accelerate, stop and corner there was never any problem regarding grip or weight transfer – my old 1968 Ford Escort (RWD) on cross-ply tyres would have handled those speeds! By chance none of my five observed drives or the test were on other than dry roads (except a short local shower when driving through Evesham on one drive).
Despite my slight reservations as above I feel that my involvement with the IAM has definitely improved my driving and I will encourage others to do likewise. As some-one else said - it’s a bargain for £85.
Good points those, pretty balanced viewpoint all around.
Ahh, the old '68 Escort. Those were the cars.
Well done (and isn't it annoying when the examiner picks up something you just knew you should have done).
BFF
Philbes said:
BOF - You make some good points. Ir's just that becoming an observer and suggesting to others that they should drive in a manner that I don't totally believe in myself seems rather hypocritical. However, after your comments I will give it further thought.
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
Philbes,
As BFF says, you can encourage the young drivers to get involved...our Group are still refunding the £75-00 fee to under 21s and £40-00 of the fee to under 26s...I carry a stack of leaflets and hand them to the boy racers in Tesco car parks when I am waiting for my Associates to arrive - never had any cheek from any of them - and quite a lot of interest.
We have, unfortunately, an 'old cardigan' image...having the spare time to be an Observer often equals "retired"...given a choice, I would prefer trying to get the knickers off Kiera Knightly rather than telling someone about IPSGA.
But alas - onwards and upwards...
BOF.
Philbes said:
My concern in 'passing on the message' as it was given to me is the insistance (at least with my observer and examiner) on very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping. This visually annoyed following drivers and, on a number of occassions, lead to dangerous overtaking.
Perhaps you could detail "very slow acceleration away from a stop and the excessive distance used to slow down before corners or stopping". I've never come across either during my association with the IAM.
What they may have been trying to convey was the importance of smoothness. You can eventually become smooth and fast, such as police pursuit and racing drivers. However, you generally have to start smooth and slow before learning to become smooth and fast.
Cheers
BOF said:
Philbes,
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Out of a nation of 60 million people, 50 million of whom may use the road in one way or another, every single day.
If you do some sums and work out some percentages, it shows that our roads are extraordinanrily safe. Its for this reason that accident figures often have to be couched in alarmist terms such as "do you know how many Jumbo Jets that is?"
I often think that if, as a nation, we got our act together with our health service and health care, we could very easily save 10,000 lives at a stroke. I understand we kill 5,000 rather than spend a few bob on keeping the hospitals clean.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 16th August 00:48
heebeegeetee said:
BOF said:
Philbes,
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Out of a nation of 60 million people, 50 million of whom may use the road in one way or another, every single day.
If you do some sums and work out some percentages, it shows that our roads are extraordinanrily safe. Its for this reason that accident figures often have to be couched in alarmist terms such as "do you know how many Jumbo Jets that is?"
I often think that if, as a nation, we got our act together with our health service and health care, we could very easily save 10,000 lives at a stroke. I understand we kill 5,000 rather than spend a few bob on keeping the hospitals clean.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 16th August 00:48
OK by all means let's try to do better, but however you look at it the serious error content among road users is exceedingly small. Much larger numbers of deaths seem to be caused in general health related areas, which seems a bit ironic, like bugs being picked up by people in hospital.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Hi car_chic!
I would wholeheartedly recommend that you take the IAM Advanced driving test. I guarantee that you will not regret it. I thoroughly enjoyed my test and learnt so much over the seven week course that I did. I am undoubtedly a better driver as a result, but still far from as good as I would like to be.
It will of course, as you say, make you a better driver. More importantly it will make you analise your driving every time you get in the car, if only to nip to the local shops. This striving for self improvement is the key to better driving. If you decide to forget all that you have learnt or not put into practice the principles of advanced driving - I am not suggesting that this might be the case with you - then it will not be a worthwhile exercise.
I have also found that I am a much more relaxed driver now, increasingly enjoying the craft of driving and rarely suffering rage as a consequence of other people's actions.
I decided to become an observer to pass on the skills and knowledge that I had aquired on the course. Being an observer has the added benefit of keeping me up to speed with Roadcraft and the Highway Code.
I gained a saving of about £120 or £130 on my car insurance this year because of my IAM membership. That is just over 20% of the total premium. My car is group 18 and has been modified. I live in a high insurance area. I have maximum no claims discount and no penalty points or convictions.
I would wholeheartedly recommend that you take the IAM Advanced driving test. I guarantee that you will not regret it. I thoroughly enjoyed my test and learnt so much over the seven week course that I did. I am undoubtedly a better driver as a result, but still far from as good as I would like to be.
It will of course, as you say, make you a better driver. More importantly it will make you analise your driving every time you get in the car, if only to nip to the local shops. This striving for self improvement is the key to better driving. If you decide to forget all that you have learnt or not put into practice the principles of advanced driving - I am not suggesting that this might be the case with you - then it will not be a worthwhile exercise.
I have also found that I am a much more relaxed driver now, increasingly enjoying the craft of driving and rarely suffering rage as a consequence of other people's actions.
I decided to become an observer to pass on the skills and knowledge that I had aquired on the course. Being an observer has the added benefit of keeping me up to speed with Roadcraft and the Highway Code.
I gained a saving of about £120 or £130 on my car insurance this year because of my IAM membership. That is just over 20% of the total premium. My car is group 18 and has been modified. I live in a high insurance area. I have maximum no claims discount and no penalty points or convictions.
Heebe,
You are correct, in that the UK has one of the best percapita'accident' records in the World...see here...www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-multicountry-percapita
And the hygiene in the HNS IS a disgrace - no argument.
And, it is estimated that 10% of hospital beds are occupied by victims of traffic 'incidents' - I think I have read about 470000 per year?
Leave aside for the moment the fatalities - leaves around 466500, some of whom might, or might not, walk, or work, again?
Statistics ARE relevant*, and it is great that the UK have good figures...but it is a bit like our great unemployment figures - no one is 99% unemployed - or dead.
BOF.
*Who said - "Statistics are the opium of the masses" ?
Out of a nation of 60 million people, 50 million of whom may use the road in one way or another, every single day.
If you do some sums and work out some percentages, it shows that our roads are extraordinanrily safe. Its for this reason that accident figures often have to be couched in alarmist terms such as "do you know how many Jumbo Jets that is?"
I often think that if, as a nation, we got our act together with our health service and health care, we could very easily save 10,000 lives at a stroke. I understand we kill 5,000 rather than spend a few bob on keeping the hospitals clean.
You are correct, in that the UK has one of the best percapita'accident' records in the World...see here...www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-multicountry-percapita
And the hygiene in the HNS IS a disgrace - no argument.
And, it is estimated that 10% of hospital beds are occupied by victims of traffic 'incidents' - I think I have read about 470000 per year?
Leave aside for the moment the fatalities - leaves around 466500, some of whom might, or might not, walk, or work, again?
Statistics ARE relevant*, and it is great that the UK have good figures...but it is a bit like our great unemployment figures - no one is 99% unemployed - or dead.
BOF.
*Who said - "Statistics are the opium of the masses" ?
heebeegeetee said:
BOF said:
Philbes,
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Not having a go at you...we have the problem that there are around 3500 deaths on our roads every year.....that is roughly 10 per day?
Out of a nation of 60 million people, 50 million of whom may use the road in one way or another, every single day.
If you do some sums and work out some percentages, it shows that our roads are extraordinanrily safe. Its for this reason that accident figures often have to be couched in alarmist terms such as "do you know how many Jumbo Jets that is?"
I often think that if, as a nation, we got our act together with our health service and health care, we could very easily save 10,000 lives at a stroke. I understand we kill 5,000 rather than spend a few bob on keeping the hospitals clean.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 16th August 00:48
BOF said:
Go for it for the reasons above...
www.iam.org.uk/iamgroups/groupdirectory/
Should take you to your local Group...
BOF
PS - Looks like this mob have a sense of humour
www.phph.demon.co.uk/iamcar/locate.htm
www.iam.org.uk/iamgroups/groupdirectory/
Should take you to your local Group...
BOF
PS - Looks like this mob have a sense of humour
www.phph.demon.co.uk/iamcar/locate.htm
They do indeed - I learned and was an Observer with the Derby Group for 4 years - they are a good bunch, don't take themselves too seriously, but are (were) pretty thorough in their approach!
Kinky - I also used to edit the group newsletter - careful what you wish for!!
Edited by Nick_Chim on Wednesday 16th August 21:09
Sadly we played the newsletter a bit straighter than Peter who runs the website, but with occasional zanyness, particularly in the fillers:
CALLING ALL OPERATIVES
All observers - read and destroy (but not until you’ve read the rest of this well crafted newsletter)
THE WRONG ATTITUDE?
In the group there has been recent sightings of some candidates who attend an observed run, but exhibit a dubious driving standard on other occasions. This seems to suggest that they have the wrong attitude. However, if they have decided to embark on an IAM course they must have considered that their driving has room for improvement, taking the first step to improvement and a good attitude. So what’s wrong?
JEKYLL AND HYDE CANDIDATES
Some candidates seem to have a Jekyll and Hyde personality (when it comes to driving). While under observation, they exhibit a completely different style of driving, hiding their normal standard. All operatives must be on our guard for these people, some have managed to carry off their act for a whole run while hypnotising some of our operatives into giving them high marks.
YOUR MISSION - SHOULD YOU ACCEPT IT
We must be aware of these individuals and do our best to identify them before it’s too late.
The following check points should help in spotting them:
· Observe their speed, constant speedometer watchers obviously have trouble ‘feeling’ speeds, indicating that they do not naturally drive at legal limits.
· Watch them hold the wheel, especially at stops, if one hand keeps dropping or an elbow starts to sit on the window ledge, you’ve got em.
· Are they applying the system to all hazards? Only constant practice can keep I-P-S-G-A correct at all times
· Note their disposition, if they appear uncomfortable in their seats, its likely that they normally adopt a more laid back position.
· Monitor for signs of impatience as they enter and leave the car park and the adjoining roads, while by themselves.
WARNING!
On no account must you give these people high marks unless a senior operative concurs with your judgement, encouraging them may make the situation worse. Use your defensive equipment (the Observers Guide) in case of difficulties. Report any suspicious activity to agent Sue or senior agents Adi, Dennis or Nick who are guardians of the status ‘ready for test’.
ABOVE ALL, BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.
......THIS NEWSLETTER WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 30 MILES
In all seriousness, all observers should carefully look at the three Ss during observed runs:
SPEED, SYSTEM & STEERING
all too often candidates with basic flaws in one or more of these have been told that they are ‘ready for test’ and are put in for pre-test runs.
Associates – you now know what we will be looking for – ask your observer about the techniques.
and
Darwin Awards commemorate those who improve our gene pool by removing themselves from it in really stupid ways. This honour is, of necessity, usually awarded posthumously. More details at www.DarwinAwards.com
All too often, drivers are Darwin Award winners – the following is an extract from the 2002 awards:
5. A 27-year-old French woman lost control of her car on a highway near Marseilles and crashed into a tree, seriously injuring her passenger and killing herself. As a commonplace road accident, this would not have qualified for a Darwin nomination, were it not for the fact that the driver's attention had been distracted by her Tamagotchi key ring, which had started urgently beeping for food as she drove along. In an attempt to press the correct buttons to save the Tamagotchi's life, the woman lost her own.
PM for more...
newsletter Nov 02 said:
CALLING ALL OPERATIVES
All observers - read and destroy (but not until you’ve read the rest of this well crafted newsletter)
THE WRONG ATTITUDE?
In the group there has been recent sightings of some candidates who attend an observed run, but exhibit a dubious driving standard on other occasions. This seems to suggest that they have the wrong attitude. However, if they have decided to embark on an IAM course they must have considered that their driving has room for improvement, taking the first step to improvement and a good attitude. So what’s wrong?
JEKYLL AND HYDE CANDIDATES
Some candidates seem to have a Jekyll and Hyde personality (when it comes to driving). While under observation, they exhibit a completely different style of driving, hiding their normal standard. All operatives must be on our guard for these people, some have managed to carry off their act for a whole run while hypnotising some of our operatives into giving them high marks.
YOUR MISSION - SHOULD YOU ACCEPT IT
We must be aware of these individuals and do our best to identify them before it’s too late.
The following check points should help in spotting them:
· Observe their speed, constant speedometer watchers obviously have trouble ‘feeling’ speeds, indicating that they do not naturally drive at legal limits.
· Watch them hold the wheel, especially at stops, if one hand keeps dropping or an elbow starts to sit on the window ledge, you’ve got em.
· Are they applying the system to all hazards? Only constant practice can keep I-P-S-G-A correct at all times
· Note their disposition, if they appear uncomfortable in their seats, its likely that they normally adopt a more laid back position.
· Monitor for signs of impatience as they enter and leave the car park and the adjoining roads, while by themselves.
WARNING!
On no account must you give these people high marks unless a senior operative concurs with your judgement, encouraging them may make the situation worse. Use your defensive equipment (the Observers Guide) in case of difficulties. Report any suspicious activity to agent Sue or senior agents Adi, Dennis or Nick who are guardians of the status ‘ready for test’.
ABOVE ALL, BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.
......THIS NEWSLETTER WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 30 MILES
In all seriousness, all observers should carefully look at the three Ss during observed runs:
SPEED, SYSTEM & STEERING
all too often candidates with basic flaws in one or more of these have been told that they are ‘ready for test’ and are put in for pre-test runs.
Associates – you now know what we will be looking for – ask your observer about the techniques.
and
another newsletter said:
Darwin Awards commemorate those who improve our gene pool by removing themselves from it in really stupid ways. This honour is, of necessity, usually awarded posthumously. More details at www.DarwinAwards.com
All too often, drivers are Darwin Award winners – the following is an extract from the 2002 awards:
5. A 27-year-old French woman lost control of her car on a highway near Marseilles and crashed into a tree, seriously injuring her passenger and killing herself. As a commonplace road accident, this would not have qualified for a Darwin nomination, were it not for the fact that the driver's attention had been distracted by her Tamagotchi key ring, which had started urgently beeping for food as she drove along. In an attempt to press the correct buttons to save the Tamagotchi's life, the woman lost her own.
PM for more...
Edited by Nick_Chim on Wednesday 16th August 20:49
Car.chic, I'd just like to echo what the others have said. Don't expect to save money, but do expect to think about your driving more, observe better, and generally drive more smoothly.
It's 2 years since I got mine now and despite best intentions I have let things slide rather. I still use a lot of what I have learnt, but have become rather lazy with a lot of it. I think much of that stems from 90% of my driving being through necessity in very congested London roads. I did my IAM out in the sticks and I still have issues seeing how a lot of it can be applied to city driving where it often seems to be every man for himself.
For me I think a lot of my disinterest stems from the group that I trained with. Perhaps I do them a disservice (I won't name them). They trained me well, all the observers were excellent (save one fuddy duddy) and realistic about real world driving. However, I found the atmosphere very cardigan-y. I went to one of their regular meetings to find that it was a slideshow / armchair tour of a local area
I was hoping for a nice chat with some like-minded people over a pint or two, but it was sitting in a cold church hall being bored to tears. I am afraid I have never been back, and despite my initial keenness to become an observer the interest waned as there was no social side. The newsletters are painful, they read like a church magazine.
I think Philbes hit on it here :
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
I agree - I would welcome pub meets or something, it's all terribly "weak lemon drink and biscuits in the church hall" at the moment, and still some of their meetings (just having checked their website) aren't motoring related (quiz night!?). When I did my training I was by far the youngest around (29 at the time) and I fail to see how they will get younger people along with these attitudes.
Maybe I should look to other groups for camaraderie - that Derbys. one looks like fun but a long trek for me I'm afraid.
My point is that although I got a lot from it, I think I "fell by the wayside" partly as a result of the group's stuck in the past attitude... It is sad as they do some stirling work.
Not sure what my next step should be. Perhaps dust off Roadcraft, do some "fun" driving, do an IAM assessment to brush up, and some further training (I'm thinking some sort of HPC course). Sadly I think the minute I get back into town it would be back to tailgating to stop people changing lane into your braking distance
Sorry, gone a bit off-topic! Would be good to have a PH-IAM group!
It's 2 years since I got mine now and despite best intentions I have let things slide rather. I still use a lot of what I have learnt, but have become rather lazy with a lot of it. I think much of that stems from 90% of my driving being through necessity in very congested London roads. I did my IAM out in the sticks and I still have issues seeing how a lot of it can be applied to city driving where it often seems to be every man for himself.
For me I think a lot of my disinterest stems from the group that I trained with. Perhaps I do them a disservice (I won't name them). They trained me well, all the observers were excellent (save one fuddy duddy) and realistic about real world driving. However, I found the atmosphere very cardigan-y. I went to one of their regular meetings to find that it was a slideshow / armchair tour of a local area
I was hoping for a nice chat with some like-minded people over a pint or two, but it was sitting in a cold church hall being bored to tears. I am afraid I have never been back, and despite my initial keenness to become an observer the interest waned as there was no social side. The newsletters are painful, they read like a church magazine. I think Philbes hit on it here :
Philbes said:
I would also like to see the 20/30-year-olds in the IAM as well as the 40/50/60's that seem to be the vast majority, at least in my local group.
I agree - I would welcome pub meets or something, it's all terribly "weak lemon drink and biscuits in the church hall" at the moment, and still some of their meetings (just having checked their website) aren't motoring related (quiz night!?). When I did my training I was by far the youngest around (29 at the time) and I fail to see how they will get younger people along with these attitudes.
Maybe I should look to other groups for camaraderie - that Derbys. one looks like fun but a long trek for me I'm afraid.
My point is that although I got a lot from it, I think I "fell by the wayside" partly as a result of the group's stuck in the past attitude... It is sad as they do some stirling work.
Not sure what my next step should be. Perhaps dust off Roadcraft, do some "fun" driving, do an IAM assessment to brush up, and some further training (I'm thinking some sort of HPC course). Sadly I think the minute I get back into town it would be back to tailgating to stop people changing lane into your braking distance
Sorry, gone a bit off-topic! Would be good to have a PH-IAM group!
Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Saturday 19th August 16:31
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