Middle lane hogging

[Flat in Fifth]

My 2p on this is.

Assuming that you are at permitted limit on the basis that if not then there must be something else 2 seconds plus ahead which is preventing from being so. Yes other resaons why not at PL but let us apply KISS principle.

If I can move to the lane to my left, and be fully in and settled in that lane for more than 20 seconds before I have to start the indicate for the move out and / or slow down, then I will move to my left.

If lane 3 is clear and thus following traffic, if it wishes to go faster can do so by using lane 3, then the 20 second rule is stretched a bit dependant upon circumstances. Too complicated to explain here. Also need to watch for vehicles which are not supposed to use lane 3, but in circs described they will probably already be way above their permitted limit anyway.

This does mean that sometimes, if you get your planning wrong, then the MLOC behind you when you move left, then speed up and make the move back out into lane 2 more problematical, but it doesn't add much to journey time in my opinion.

Various strategies to deal with that scenario, but then I'd have VonH wagging his finger so not going there.

Personally I like the way it seems to work in Scandinavia which, acknowledging the lower traffic density and the better lane discipline, is that people adjust their own speed so that everyone can make their overtakes without having to adjust speed too much.

Take me for ever to describe how it works but it does.

[S2AVANT]

Fat Audi 80 said:

What about when the motorway is being held up all on its own with one MLM sitting in lane 2 with a clear road ahead as a swarm of traffic waiting to get by in lane three.

Are you ever been tempted to "clip" the OS rear bumper sending them spinning into the hard shoulder?

I know I have been!

Cheers,

Steve.

Yes, Can I borrow your old green golf for the performance?

[Heartwood]

Middle Lane Bandits falling asleep in lane two! Loss of or total lack of concentration. Everybody's been in that "auto pilot" mode, where you can't remember the last five minutes of your journy (oh yes you have!). Will Middle Lane Bandits can't remember leaving home that morning, what they had for breakfast or what their Mammy looks like.

If you're behind a wheel then CONCENTRATE! ALL THE TIME!

Don't hog the middle lane.
Switch your lights on when it's dusk / foggy / rainy.
Switch OFF your high-intesity rear blinders when the sun comes out again.

Please.

[Philbes]

I do have a little sympathy for some of the middle-lane (and outside) lane hoggers for the following reason.
I am travelling in lane 1 (or 2) and a car is in the lane to my right, further back than me but travelling at the same, or very slightly higher speed. As I catch up a slower car in the same lane as myself the car to my right suddenly increases his speed so that he 'boxes me in' behind the car I am catching up, forcing me to brake. So if I am in the outside (or middle lane) these inconsiderate drives will box me in if I move to a further left lane.
This frequently happens. If it is obvious to me that I am about to box in a driver behind a slower vehicle in their lane I will either slow down and let them out or accelerate enough that I will pass them and still leave them time to pull out and overtake.
There seems to be too much of the every driver for themselves mentality on motorways.

[ol' dirty]

I drove back to Cornwall from Coventry last night & had an absolute nightmare getting home for 2 reasons

1. Rain
2. Lane hogging

There were lines of cars waiting to overtake a middle lane hoggers- nothing on the inside lane
The cars were overtaking slowly hence my frustration, why dont they just pull back in and let faster traffic past instead of queueing up? I cant explain how much this makes my blood boil when driving on the motorway, I would have been home alot soon if people used the lanes in a correct manner.

Have to say this phenominon only seems to occur on motorways not dual carrigeways, well not that ive seen anyway...

[vim fuego]

Philbes said:

I do have a little sympathy for some of the middle-lane (and outside) lane hoggers for the following reason.
I am travelling in lane 1 (or 2) and a car is in the lane to my right, further back than me but travelling at the same, or very slightly higher speed. As I catch up a slower car in the same lane as myself the car to my right suddenly increases his speed so that he 'boxes me in' behind the car I am catching up, forcing me to brake. So if I am in the outside (or middle lane) these inconsiderate drives will box me in if I move to a further left lane.
This frequently happens. If it is obvious to me that I am about to box in a driver behind a slower vehicle in their lane I will either slow down and let them out or accelerate enough that I will pass them and still leave them time to pull out and overtake.
There seems to be too much of the every driver for themselves mentality on motorways.

agreed and particularly notable when using cruise control

as those who just can't maintain a steady speed, the number of times you pass, they pass, you pass, they pass - ffs

[andychiv]

Newcomer here so hello.

I'm not one for bothering to post on forums usually, but I really couldn't resist with this.

I have quite a strong view on Middle lane hoggers, most of which I can not be mention here in case I incriminate myself!!!!

The fact that you guys have all commented, tells me by default you are not the people who I find myself continually flashing and getting irate with (amongst other things) on a regular basis.

Now I know I am not perfect, but I don't think the type of person who hogs lanes has any respect for anyone else on the road, or does not have the confidence to be on a motorway in the first place?

My own approach to lane changes is firstly gage the speed of approaching vehicles, then how long it will take me to catch the vehicle in front. OK, sometimes you may have to ease off/accelerate, but generally you can gauge the decision can't you, I know I can!?!?! Obviously, when L1 is clear, use the bloody thing

Sorry but I really o feel that people who lane hog just don't give a s4!te and that probably applies to most things, like letting others out at junctions when they're going no-where. I've even seen people join a motorway and pull stright in to L2 with L1 completely emty, causing me to take evassive action:frious:

Proper motorway training is the answer for me, oh and maybe the police having a chat to educate them, instead of sitting in vans all day trying to catch me at 82MPH

[mph999]

gridgway said:

mph999 said:

I understand your concerns though, but after all, I'm legal and they're not. To me, that justifies it.

Martin

Sadly that's what the hoggers think! I'm not referring to you Martin of course (I snipped your post for brevity).

It does bring another question. Is staying in lane actually ok if you are travelling at the speed limit? After all noone should overtake as they are breaking the law.

Graham

No offence taken ...

[madleee]

Philbes said:

If it is obvious to me that I am about to box in a driver behind a slower vehicle in their lane I will either slow down and let them out or accelerate enough that I will pass them and still leave them time to pull out and overtake.
There seems to be too much of the every driver for themselves mentality on motorways.

I would also like to add that if you are in L2 approaching a car in L1 closing on a wagon then you move to L3 so that driver in L1 can move to L2.

Too little consideration for other drivers these days, It's MAD MAX time!

[madras]

quote "Sorry but I really o feel that people who lane hog just don't give a s4!te and that probably applies to most things, like letting others out at junctions when they're going no-where. I've even seen people join a motorway and pull stright in to L2 with L1 completely emty, causing me to take evassive action:frious"

I think you give people too much credit. The people that do this lane hogging and don't use lane 1 unless they are leaving the motorway or travelling at 60 have no clue what the different lanes are for. I'd think the majority of people on the motorway think that they are supposed to stay in the middle lane, and that it's perfectly acceptable to stay in L3 if they are travelling fast.

I'm actually suprised at reading this thread that there are this number of people that understand what the lanes are for! I very rarely see anyone in L1, occasionally if I've just overtaken someone, or am in L3 and reach a clear section I'll see someone follow me over to L1, but rarely.

Is it ok to undertake? - what are people opinions. I'd admit to doing this on the motorway to undertake lane hogs who are clueless - I'm hoping some of them then question why that is occuring and look at how they are driving.

[Big Fat F'er]

madras said:

Is it ok to undertake?.

Madras - think about it. According to most folk, the MLH is there because he doesn't know the rules of the road. Not only that , he doesn't care. Not only that, but he isn't using his mirrors. Not only that, but he has little if any awareness of what is going on around him.

Bearing all that in mind, why the fick would you want to undertake him. Benefit - probably no more than 10 seconds driving time. Potential cost - fatal collision. Hmmmmmmmm, which shall it be.

madras said:

I'd admit to doing this on the motorway to undertake lane hogs who are clueless - I'm hoping some of them then question why that is occuring and look at how they are driving

Roughly how many have followed you into the Services and thanked you for the enlightenment. What makes you think an undertake will make them sit up and take notice.

Drive on the left. Overtake on the right. Unless you are in a boat.

BFF

[Middle Laner]

Was driving a fairly newly qualified driver up the M40 a couple of weeks back. As this ML thing is one of my pet peeves (using 2/3 etc of the motorway selfish little ards), I thought I'd ask her if she'd been taught about it on her test. Erm, no, she couldn't remember. She didn't know that the ML was for. She's never driven on a motorway. Maybe the question on the correct use of lanes was question 17 on the multi-choice exam and didn't exactly stick (her only interest in cars is getting from A->B).

So the first day she gets on the motorway as a driver, she'll see all these other ML drivers and think to herself that obviously L2 is for cars, L1 is for lorries, L3 is for speedsters. And that's how she'll drive. She'll get the odd undertaker ("oh, maybe that's okay actually", she thinks, might even try it one day "when I'm feeling more confident", sees someone weaving round her, L1->2->flash flash->3->2->1 ("he's just testing the cars handling/relieving the boredom" etc.

This behaviour is not her fault (I don't think). She's simply learning by observing, like most other things in life. Any aggression towards her will only scare her - she won't understand why the aggression, and she'll just become more timid, more scared to venture from the safety of L2.

I think we should give L2's the benefit, set a good example - maybe they'll pick up on that instead (slim hope/fat chance). Even though they wind me up something rotten.

[vipers]

madleee said:

I would also like to add that if you are in L2 approaching a car in L1 closing on a wagon then you move to L3 so that driver in L1 can move to L2.

Too little consideration for other drivers these days, It's MAD MAX time!

Thats a manouevour I practice all the time, providing moving into L3 doesnt cause those coming up L3 behind me are forced to slow down, a little look ahead of whats going on, like the situation you describe should be 2nd nature.

On occasions I cannot move into L3, I will, conditions permitting slow a little, and flash to let the guy in L1 pull out, curtosy cost's nothing at all. Nowt worst than being stuck behing a lorry for miles and miles as we all know.

But basically I think a lot of drivers have absolutely no idea of lane discipline at all.

Surprising how many refer to L3 as "The Fast Lane"

[vipers]

Middle Laner said:

Was driving a fairly newly qualified driver up the M40 a couple of weeks back. As this ML thing is one of my pet peeves (using 2/3 etc of the motorway selfish little ards), I thought I'd ask her if she'd been taught about it on her test. Erm, no, she couldn't remember. She didn't know that the ML was for. She's never driven on a motorway. Maybe the question on the correct use of lanes was question 17 on the multi-choice exam and didn't exactly stick (her only interest in cars is getting from A->B).

So the first day she gets on the motorway as a driver, she'll see all these other ML drivers and think to herself that obviously L2 is for cars, L1 is for lorries, L3 is for speedsters. And that's how she'll drive. She'll get the odd undertaker ("oh, maybe that's okay actually", she thinks, might even try it one day "when I'm feeling more confident", sees someone weaving round her, L1->2->flash flash->3->2->1 ("he's just testing the cars handling/relieving the boredom" etc.

This behaviour is not her fault (I don't think). She's simply learning by observing, like most other things in life. Any aggression towards her will only scare her - she won't understand why the aggression, and she'll just become more timid, more scared to venture from the safety of L2.

I think we should give L2's the benefit, set a good example - maybe they'll pick up on that instead (slim hope/fat chance). Even though they wind me up something rotten.

I think the problem with some "New" drivers, is that once they pass their test, they throw away the Highway Code. I have been driving for over 30 years, but still flick through the code now and again. I find there are one or two warning signs you see so rarely, it doesnt hurt to re-cap on their meaning.

Thankfully my job involves ZERO motorway driving, but on occasions I drive south from Aberdeen and of course use the motorways, I understand exactly what you are on about. How some of you guys keep your cool I dont know.

And the big problem I see with undertaking is that whilst most modern cars have the offside mirror corrected to eliminate blind spots, the nearside one doesnt, and the numpty may just have a quick glance and decide to pull over as you are passing him?

Edited by vipers on Sunday 26th November 21:56

[madleee]

I beleive that learner drivers learn to pass their driving test.
They don't learn to drive.
Once you pass the test you can drive how you want, how many of us cross hands when steering?

I would argue that you pass the test to gain the basic skills required to drive but you carry on learning through experience.

[vipers]

madleee said:

I beleive that learner drivers learn to pass their driving test.
They don't learn to drive.
Once you pass the test you can drive how you want, how many of us cross hands when steering?

I would argue that you pass the test to gain the basic skills required to drive but you carry on learning through experience.

Spot on

[JohnnyPanic]

madleee said:

I beleive that learner drivers learn to pass their driving test.
They don't learn to drive.
Once you pass the test you can drive how you want, how many of us cross hands when steering?

I would argue that you pass the test to gain the basic skills required to drive but you carry on learning through experience.

This is very true. I recently took (and passed) my test. I learned how to drive round housing estates, through a quiet town and how to "turn in the road".* In six weeks of lessons, about 18 hours driving time, I spent no more than three minutes on roads with a limit greater than 40, and no dual carriage ways. As soon as I prove that I can reverse round a corner under test conditions I'm allowed to go tearing up and down the motorways as I see fit. No tuition, no guidance, no experience.

Fortunately my parents taught me about good lane disciplne from an early age (as bad examples would infuriate both of them) so I know how it works. Even so, it's still ing scary joining the motorway for the first time. And regardless of how well you know the 'stopping distances' it doesn't prepare you for how much longer it actually takes to slow down smoothly from 70(ish)mph.

So far as I'm aware there is part of the Pass Plus thing that deals with motorway driving. I think this should be compulsory before being allowed on motorways, it's such a different type of driving.


* this apparently does not involve vigorous application of the handbrake

[boxsey]

ol' dirty said:

Have to say this phenominon only seems to occur on motorways not dual carrigeways, well not that ive seen anyway...

This is one of the keys to the middle lane hogging problem IMO. Almost all of our motorways are 3 lanes or more. Almost all of the motorways I have driven on, on the continent, are 2 lanes. In Europe drivers realise the nearside lane (nearly said left lane then ) is for going and the next lane is for overtaking. In many countries they even keep their indicator on when in the overtaking lane to let you know that they are overtaking and not hogging.

Therefore it's having 3 lanes that is the problem. Left lane for going, middle lane for overtaking and 3rd lane for overtaking someone who is overtaking! This is such a stupid rule that it's no wonder that so many drivers don't understand it. From what I've seen the M6 toll is probably one of the quietest motorways in the country yet people still stick in the middle lane for the entire length of their journey!

[JohnnyPanic]

boxsey said:

From what I've seen the M6 toll is probably one of the quietest motorways in the country yet people still stick in the middle lane for the entire length of their journey!

Saturday night a week ago driving north up the M1 was a nightmare due to an overcrowded middle lane, despite the other lanes not being too bad. Ventured onto the M6 toll and it was just how motorway driving should be. Most of the time in lane 1, a few overtakes in lane 2 and just one venture into lane 3. Admittedly the latter was to go from lane one round a middle-hogger back into lane one, but they got the hint and moved over afterwards

[boxsey]

JohnnyPanic said:

Saturday night a week ago driving north up the M1 was a nightmare due to an overcrowded middle lane, despite the other lanes not being too bad. Ventured onto the M6 toll and it was just how motorway driving should be. Most of the time in lane 1, a few overtakes in lane 2 and just one venture into lane 3. Admittedly the latter was to go from lane one round a middle-hogger back into lane one, but they got the hint and moved over afterwards

Exactly my experience! As you say, WTF should we have to go from 1 to 3 and back to 1 to overtake these hoggers? Great road for getting a move on though. Comes complete with mobile chicanes and cheaper than a track day!