Being Flashed etc

[A - W]

victormeldrew said:

Just to post the other side of the this.

I had a near death experience last night. I am not exaggerating, or being hysterical, or underestimating the abilities of the overtaker; I nearly died, along with probably a few others, and as yet I haven't quite worked out why I am still here.

It was about 19:30, dark, and I was on the long drag up to Tottingham from Tebworth. It's a long straight road, but uphill, and there are "steps" as you approach Tottingham, followed by a series of bends as you enter the village. From the direction I was coming you can see for miles, literally. The road was clear and I was making progress. As I approached the "steps" I could see headlights approaching, but I could not have expected what I saw as I crested the first of what are effectively a couple of blind summits; yes, a car was approaching on the other side of the road, but also my side of the road was also filled with another set of headlights as someone was overtaking on a blind summit. Probably no more than 30m in front of me, and squarely in my lane. What happened next is pretty much anyones guess, but somehow three cars passed on a single carriageway, and everything happened in a blink of an eye.

I spent the rest of my 60 mile trip home wondering how many ways that could have ended stickily, but I have no doubt at all that the effects of a head-on would have been fatal. Even if both parties were travelling at legal speeds that would have been a potential 100mph impact, and I would have been raspberry jam. I just wonder of the lunatic doing the overtake in such a stupid place appreciated his mistake quite as much.

Edited by victormeldrew on Thursday 16th November 12:57

A lad who I went to school with died overtaking someone on the blind summit. He didnt see the heavy.
His girlfriend lived, only after months in hospital.

[Big Fat F'er]

Dino D said:

is it suggested to be good practive to flash your lights before an overtake?

Not always. Only when needed (I am here but you haven't seen me) and appropriate (it won't be misconstrued and is not ambiguous).

By the way it's an overtaking lane, not a fast lane.

Plus, one man's dawdle is another mans Law break.

BFF

Edited by Big Fat F'er on Thursday 16th November 17:20

[Dino D]

Not always. Only when needed (I am here but you haven't seen me) and appropriate (it won't be misconstrued and is not ambiguous).
After sitting behind for a while it became apparent he didn't know I was there so I flashed to let him know.

By the way it's an overtaking lane, not a fast lane.
Thanks for the correction-even more reason for the fella to eff out of the lane since he wasn't overtaking anything

Plus, one man's dawdle is another mans Law break.
He was going less than 70mph.

My problem is that even when it seems appropriate to be logical and flash your lights you run the risk of being on the receiving end of some road rage.

Edited by Big Fat F'er on Thursday 16th November 17:20

[/quote]

[Big Fat F'er]

Dino D said:

Not always. Only when needed (I am here but you haven't seen me) and appropriate (it won't be misconstrued and is not ambiguous).
After sitting behind for a while it became apparent he didn't know I was there so I flashed to let him know.

How exactly do you know that he didn't know you were there. Just because he didn't move over, doesn't mean he hadn't seen you. I'm not saying he's in the right, I'm just questioning your assumptions. It's important, 'cos if he DID know you were there, the flash was only ever going to antagonise him. Don't forget, the flash is a visual shout. Use it wisely.

Dino D said:

By the way it's an overtaking lane, not a fast lane.
Thanks for the correction.

My pleasure. You would be surprised by the number of numpties that have trouble with that concept.

Dino D said:

Plus, one man's dawdle is another mans Law break.
He was going less than 70mph.

Annoying I know.

Dino D said:

My problem is that even when it seems appropriate to be logical and flash your lights you run the risk of being on the receiving end of some road rage.

Absolutely, hence the caution to use it wisely and carefully.

Also, don't forget to get some recognition if used in an overtake. I've sat with folk who have done everything perfectly, including an appropriate headlamp flash, but then gone without waiting for recognition. Result - massive surprise for everyone.

[caro]

Dino D, one thing which sometimes works in the situation you describe (car in outside lane for no apparent reason, holding you up) is to indicate right, showing him/her you wish to pass. This does sometimes work, but again, sometimes not, numpties abound, I fear!

[caro]

I would like to add, that this thread has made me feel a little better after a couple of horrible experiences overtaking recently which have led to me driving with extreme caution and unable to try to use the power of my car to get me on. At least I know it's not just me struggling with the sheer unbelief of realising someone just tried to get me killed.

[havoc]

caro said:

I would like to add, that this thread has made me feel a little better after a couple of horrible experiences overtaking recently which have led to me driving with extreme caution and unable to try to use the power of my car to get me on. At least I know it's not just me struggling with the sheer unbelief of realising someone just tried to get me killed.

I dare say quite a number of us have experienced it. When I was commuting to Gaydon I had a G4-liveried Rangey accelerate to stop me pulling in in front of him along the B4100...just as we were approaching a cresting left-hander 200yds down!!! I emergency braked and he tried to do the same to keep me there, the f'cker! And this was on the road into work, where 90% of people on there work at Gaydon, so he must have realised he was acting like that to a colleague!!!

The REALLY annoying thing was that despite the fact that these cars are supposed to be signed out and back in again, the security chief CLAIMED he had no idea who was driving!

[GreenV8S]

havoc said:

[quote=caro]When I was commuting to Gaydon I had a G4-liveried Rangey accelerate to stop me pulling in in front of him along the B4100...just as we were approaching a cresting left-hander 200yds down!!! I emergency braked and he tried to do the same to keep me there, the f'cker!

Is it possible he decided to drop behind you, unfortunately at the same time you decided to drop behind him? Maybe it really was malice, but it *could* have been accidental.

[havoc]

GreenV8S said:

havoc said:

[quote=caro]When I was commuting to Gaydon I had a G4-liveried Rangey accelerate to stop me pulling in in front of him along the B4100...just as we were approaching a cresting left-hander 200yds down!!! I emergency braked and he tried to do the same to keep me there, the f'cker!

Is it possible he decided to drop behind you, unfortunately at the same time you decided to drop behind him? Maybe it really was malice, but it *could* have been accidental.

No, he looked across at me when we were level, sneered and gestured with his thumb for me to get behind him! It was VERY deliberate...wish I'd followed him across site and flattened him, but I had the 'teg at the time and it was a very distinctive car which I didn't want anything happening to.

[drakart]

i live in lincolnshire; home of the overtake. i find that people nowadays are happy to sit at 30mph in a 60mph zone and bunch up very very closely. You have to make the choice to overtake all 12 cars or in 3-4 car sections. it is normally in sections, but they leave such small gaps that you have to fight your way in. The driver behind then flashes. The reason? you have forced him leave the comfort of sitting three feet from the guy in fronts tail. I always then slow down to leave some space between me and the car infront, which enrages them more (not on purpose!). i give them a hand gesture to indicate that there would not be a problem if he had left a bigger gap in the first place.
Most of the people on these roads are tourists and are packed with buckets, spades and children, yet they dont seem to understand breaking distances, how overladen cars handle etc. There are many accidents on the roads of Lincolnshire; its a suprise that there aren't more...

[vonhosen]

drakart said:

i live in lincolnshire; home of the overtake. i find that people nowadays are happy to sit at 30mph in a 60mph zone and bunch up very very closely. You have to make the choice to overtake all 12 cars or in 3-4 car sections. it is normally in sections, but they leave such small gaps that you have to fight your way in. The driver behind then flashes. The reason? you have forced him leave the comfort of sitting three feet from the guy in fronts tail. I always then slow down to leave some space between me and the car infront, which enrages them more (not on purpose!). i give them a hand gesture to indicate that there would not be a problem if he had left a bigger gap in the first place.
Most of the people on these roads are tourists and are packed with buckets, spades and children, yet they dont seem to understand breaking distances, how overladen cars handle etc. There are many accidents on the roads of Lincolnshire; its a suprise that there aren't more...

Not good.

There's a suitable sociable gap or there isn't, you shouldn't be forcing your way in anywhere.
No gap = no go.

[willibetz]

Vonhosen,

Surely you've heard the term "crowbar overtake"?

Not that I condone it. But it seems apposite in any discussion that makes reference to breaking distances (sic).

WilliBetz

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

No gap = no go.

So other people driving stupidly and/or in a sheep-like manner (same thing IMHO) is reason to delay your own journey and suffer their pace?

Or, to put it another way, must we now 'drive to the lowest common denominator'?

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

No gap = no go.

So other people driving stupidly and/or in a sheep-like manner (same thing IMHO) is reason to delay your own journey and suffer their pace?

Or, to put it another way, must we now 'drive to the lowest common denominator'?

If others don't feel able to overtake, that doesn't mean you can force your way in.
If there is a safe sociable gap which you can take while adhering to the rules of the road then you can, if there isn't such a gap or you can't make it legally, then you can't.

It's no good complaining about others & then commiting offences yourself.

If they didn't overtake where they didn't feel able to, they are unlikely to fail their driving test. If you overtake forcing yourself into gaps that don't reasonably exist, you are likely to fail yours.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th November 19:42

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

It's no good complaining about others & then commiting offences yourself.

What offence? Are you telling me now that slotting yourself into a smaller-than-ideal gap and pissing off the person behind you because he was too ignorant to leave a SAFE gap (for himself not overtakers) is now an offence? Because if you are then I really think you need to go back to college...that's the most preposterous thing I've heard from you (And though I may not say it, you do come out with sense reasonably often).

vonhosen said:

If you overtake forcing yourself into gaps that don't reasonably exist, you are likely to fail yours.

But I'm not on my driving test. And the idiot leaving the small gap would, I hope, fail his for failing to leave a safe gap to the car in front.

[willibetz]

drakart said:

but they leave such small gaps that you have to fight your way in. The driver behind then flashes. The reason? you have forced him leave the comfort of sitting three feet from the guy in fronts tail.

vonhosen said:

It's no good complaining about others & then commiting offences yourself.

havoc said:

What offence? Are you telling me now that slotting yourself into a smaller-than-ideal gap and pissing off the person behind you because he was too ignorant to leave a SAFE gap (for himself not overtakers) is now an offence?

Offensive (in every sense) and dangerous. Two wrongs don't make a right (though three lefts can). Besides which, you're putting your safety in the hands of a third party whose driving you've already assessed as deficient. What if they don't make room for you?

WilliBetz

[edited for clarity]

Edited by willibetz on Saturday 18th November 13:51

[havoc]

I'm not talking about trying for a gap that's barely longer than your car and requires the co-operation of another road user, I'm talking about the usual '1/2sec' not '2sec' gaps that most morons seem to think is sufficient nowadays.

I agree that putting yourself in a dangerous position is silly. But VH mentioned an 'offence', and that's a new one to me - it sounds like he's talking out of his arse, but I'm waiting to be proved wrong.

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

vonhosen said:

It's no good complaining about others & then commiting offences yourself.

What offence? Are you telling me now that slotting yourself into a smaller-than-ideal gap and pissing off the person behind you because he was too ignorant to leave a SAFE gap (for himself not overtakers) is now an offence? Because if you are then I really think you need to go back to college...that's the most preposterous thing I've heard from you (And though I may not say it, you do come out with sense reasonably often).

So you're saying the gap that has been left is too small & unsafe, but it's an OK gap to fit another car in if it's you ?

And that's poor driving by them for being too close to the car infront, but good driving by you for being able to squeeze into it ?

[vonhosen]

havoc said:

I'm not talking about trying for a gap that's barely longer than your car and requires the co-operation of another road user, I'm talking about the usual '1/2sec' not '2sec' gaps that most morons seem to think is sufficient nowadays.

I agree that putting yourself in a dangerous position is silly. But VH mentioned an 'offence', and that's a new one to me - it sounds like he's talking out of his arse, but I'm waiting to be proved wrong.

If you are forcing your way into inappropriate gaps the offence is inconsiderate driving.

[havoc]

vonhosen said:

havoc said:

I'm not talking about trying for a gap that's barely longer than your car and requires the co-operation of another road user, I'm talking about the usual '1/2sec' not '2sec' gaps that most morons seem to think is sufficient nowadays.

I agree that putting yourself in a dangerous position is silly. But VH mentioned an 'offence', and that's a new one to me - it sounds like he's talking out of his arse, but I'm waiting to be proved wrong.

If you are forcing your way into inappropriate gaps the offence is inconsiderate driving.

Never heard of it VH. Care to share a hyperlink?

And another thing - who defines 'inappropriate'?!? By my own personal standards, I would never commence an overtake unless I was confident of SAFELY (in good time) reaching a gap large enough for me to pull into. That gap MAY be smaller than you would consider safe, it may not (I do not know your criteria!), but that then becomes a judgement call. And second point - when I commence the manoeuvre, the gap may be comforable, but by the time I complete the manoeuvre the actions of another driver may have closed that gap to a problematic size - WHO is then in the wrong - me for commencing a safe overtake, or the other numpty for closing the gap (consciously or unconsciously). Yet that person may be forcing me into two unpalatable options - force my way in (and commit your alleged offence), or nail the brakes on the wrong side of the road and try and find a gap further back (IMHO equally or more dangerous as your speed differential to the traffic increases as you slow down).


And excluding any 'change' in the size of a gap, why would the overtaker be prosecuted for said driving when the person who was clearly too close (tailgating) not be prosecuted for the same offence AND DWDCAA?!?


Sorry VH, but that whole thing smells like a pile of horse - if such an offence exists, WHY are the police not using it wholesale on all these tailgating muppets?!? And why would all-of-a-sudden an overtaker be subject to it?!?


Lot of questions there, but would appreciate answers to all of them.