Being Flashed etc
Discussion
m12_nathan said:
Tim Milne who used to write for evo lost his license after overtaking a row of 5 cars in his Evo RS (including a police car), seems strange doesn't it, the police were probably just upset that they didn't have the power to carry out the same overtake
What did he lose his licence for?
madleee said:
Can you assume that a numpty who tailgates to be competent enough to deal with you trying to squeeze in?
No.
madleee said:
Sounds arrogant but isn't it better to assume all drivers are incompetent until proven otherwise? And drive accordingly???
Yes and no. Drive to what you expect could happen. But be careful that assuming all others are incompetent isn't ignoring that we are all responsible for what goes on, and it is rarely, if ever, just "their" fault.
madleee said:
Joe Public see any car behind flashing is behaving aggressively.
Trouble is, it sometimes is.
madleee said:
I thought that overtaking more than 3 vehicles at one time was a potential wreckless driving charge.
Not in and of itself, no.
madleee said:
Some people are regarding overtaking as queue jumping, similar to shouting "I'm here" and then jumping to the counter at the Post office on Pension day.
Again, the trouble is that sometimes it is.
madleee said:
Some believe that if they are patient enough to drive 20 or 30 below NSL due to a tractor then everyone else should and by overtaking you are commiting a cardinal offence. These people are trying to teach other drivers a lesson.
Be wary of generalisations. There's a danger with reading things into something that ain't there. You dont get a clearer view by climbing the ladder of inference.
madleee said:
Whatever happened to driver courtesy and moving to the side to allow a faster driver to pass?
It still happens a bit. Maybe not enough though.
madleee said:
It's time the Govt started public information films again. There are a lot of ignorant drivers out there.
Thing is, there are also a lot of nervous drivers, patient drivers, older drivers, steady drivers, uncertain drivers, new drivers, etc. Not everyone who fails to overtake is out to get you. Or even wants to hold you up. If you find they are doing, could it possibly be something else thats causing the problem!!!
Just a thought.
BFF
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Wednesday 22 November 12:24
SamHH said:
m12_nathan said:
Tim Milne who used to write for evo lost his license after overtaking a row of 5 cars in his Evo RS (including a police car), seems strange doesn't it, the police were probably just upset that they didn't have the power to carry out the same overtake
What did he lose his licence for?
Well , it wasn't for overtaking 5 cars safely, in appropriate circumstances. But it makes a good story, don't it! Anything to get the blood boiling is always a good thing.
BFF
Big Fat F'er said:
Thing is, there are also a lot of nervous drivers, patient drivers, older drivers, steady drivers, uncertain drivers, new drivers, etc. Not everyone who fails to overtake is out to get you. Or even wants to hold you up. If you find they are doing, could it possibly be something else thats causing the problem!!!
Just a thought.
BFF
Just a thought.
BFF
Yes there are people 'out to get you' out there. But thankfully they are still a (very) small minority. A larger minority may RESENT being overtaken, but won't do anything about it. By far the majority are those who're just, as BFF says, PASSIVELY 'in your way' (if you want to view things like that).
And these people can be dealt with by doing things obviously and carefully, not driving like you're in your first Nova and have just fitted a 4" 'zorst you want to show off!
drakart said:
have you read my earlier post about being forced off the road? that's resentment!!
No, that's 'out to get you'. At least in my descriptions it is. Anyone who actively tries to obstruct/harm you is a dangerous idiot and should be shot. Or at least forced to drive a turquoise 3-wheel invalid carriage for the rest of their life...might rid them of the desire to make sudden steering inputs and get in the way of much larger (and better built) cars.
madleee said:
Isn't part of advance driving 'defensive driving'?
Someone posted on here something pertinent.
Can you assume that a numpty who tailgates to be competent enough to deal with you trying to squeeze in?
Sounds arrogant but isn't it better to assume all drivers are incompetent until proven otherwise? And drive accordingly???
Seems that the percieved use of headlight flashing has changed.
Joe Public see it as a courtesy jesture, and any car behind flashing is either an Emergency Vehicle or behaving aggressively.
I thought that overtaking more than 3 vehicles at one time was a potential wreckless driving charge...
Some people are regarding overtaking as queue jumping, similar to shouting "I'm here" and then jumping to the counter at the Post office on Pension day.
Some beleive that if they are patient enough to drive 20 or 30 below NSL due to a tractor then everyone else should and by overtaking you are commiting a cardinal offence. These people are trying to teach other drivers a lesson.
Whatever happened to driver courtesy and moving to the side to allow a faster driver to pass?
It's time the Govt started public information films again.
There are a lot of ignorant drivers out there.
(Self Righteous Mode off)
Someone posted on here something pertinent.
Can you assume that a numpty who tailgates to be competent enough to deal with you trying to squeeze in?
Sounds arrogant but isn't it better to assume all drivers are incompetent until proven otherwise? And drive accordingly???
Seems that the percieved use of headlight flashing has changed.
Joe Public see it as a courtesy jesture, and any car behind flashing is either an Emergency Vehicle or behaving aggressively.
I thought that overtaking more than 3 vehicles at one time was a potential wreckless driving charge...
Some people are regarding overtaking as queue jumping, similar to shouting "I'm here" and then jumping to the counter at the Post office on Pension day.
Some beleive that if they are patient enough to drive 20 or 30 below NSL due to a tractor then everyone else should and by overtaking you are commiting a cardinal offence. These people are trying to teach other drivers a lesson.
Whatever happened to driver courtesy and moving to the side to allow a faster driver to pass?
It's time the Govt started public information films again.
There are a lot of ignorant drivers out there.
(Self Righteous Mode off)
As our roads get more congested & our lifestyles more hectic tolerance levels drop (for all things not just driving).
People like to be more assertive in their metal boxes these days & selfishly consider themselves more important than others.
As has been said earlier though, the majority are passive in their actions.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 November 17:13
Big Fat F'er said:
m12_nathan said:
Dangerous driving I believe, hence the ban.
But lets just be clear. It wasn't a case of:
He overtook 5 cars and therefore he he is driving dangerously
It was a case of:
He is driving dangerously.
Thats different, and should be seen so.
BFF
He didn't seem to think it was, all a bit subjective really. One mans dangerous is another mans normal
Unfortunately for him the "one man" was a policeman 
Serious question - Do police take the abilities of the overtaking car into account when these sort of things occur? For example, a Noble could safely overtake in places where most other cars couldn't as once they have positioned the car, moved out and have done the final check that it is clear they'd only need a very short space to complete the overtake whereas perhaps a slower car wouldn't be able to complete the overtake before a hazard?
m12_nathan said:
Big Fat F'er said:
m12_nathan said:
Dangerous driving I believe, hence the ban.
But lets just be clear. It wasn't a case of:
He overtook 5 cars and therefore he he is driving dangerously
It was a case of:
He is driving dangerously.
Thats different, and should be seen so.
BFF
He didn't seem to think it was, all a bit subjective really. One mans dangerous is another mans normal
Unfortunately for him the "one man" was a policeman Serious question - Do police take the abilities of the overtaking car into account when these sort of things occur? For example, a Noble could safely overtake in places where most other cars couldn't as once they have positioned the car, moved out and have done the final check that it is clear they'd only need a very short space to complete the overtake whereas perhaps a slower car wouldn't be able to complete the overtake before a hazard?
The faster car can work against you where it's full potential is used. Too high a differential in passing causes it's own problems.
Circumstances matter & in this case the important view of whether it amounted to dangerous driving was not the officer's view. It was the courts.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 November 17:24
i was in a similar position to this. i was in a queue of three cars with a marked car behind. i overtook the cars and he pulled me over a bit later and gave me three points for speeding in a 60! i wouldnt do anything silly with a copper behind me. i told him i was just trying to make progress, but he didnt buy it. My car is a chipped diesel hatch and is possibly the greatest overtaking tool on the island. To me it was a simple overtake, to him it was "dangerous", but you cant argue can you !!
drakart said:
i was in a similar position to this. i was in a queue of three cars with a marked car behind. i overtook the cars and he pulled me over a bit later and gave me three points for speeding in a 60! i wouldnt do anything silly with a copper behind me. i told him i was just trying to make progress, but he didnt buy it. My car is a chipped diesel hatch and is possibly the greatest overtaking tool on the island. To me it was a simple overtake, to him it was "dangerous", but you cant argue can you !!
from what you are saying you weren't prosecuted for dangerous, you were prosecuted for speeding.
There is no exemption from the speed limit for the purpose of performing an overtake.
vonhosen said:
m12_nathan said:
Big Fat F'er said:
m12_nathan said:
Dangerous driving I believe, hence the ban.
But lets just be clear. It wasn't a case of:
He overtook 5 cars and therefore he he is driving dangerously
It was a case of:
He is driving dangerously.
Thats different, and should be seen so.
BFF
He didn't seem to think it was, all a bit subjective really. One mans dangerous is another mans normal
Unfortunately for him the "one man" was a policeman Serious question - Do police take the abilities of the overtaking car into account when these sort of things occur? For example, a Noble could safely overtake in places where most other cars couldn't as once they have positioned the car, moved out and have done the final check that it is clear they'd only need a very short space to complete the overtake whereas perhaps a slower car wouldn't be able to complete the overtake before a hazard?
The faster car can work against you where it's full potential is used. Too high a differential in passing causes it's own problems.
Circumstances matter & in this case the important view of whether it amounted to dangerous driving was not the officer's view. It was the courts.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 November 17:24
The officer charged him with the offence so it was his view too though, had he shared the drivers view he wouldn't have charged him and therefore the courts view wouldn't have been required.
I agree on the differential point having (many years ago now) been involved in an accident caused by just that. I was overtaking a 2 cars when the rear of the two decided he was going to overtake the car in front of him and pulled directly into my path, the front left of my car hitting the back right of his. At the time and in a niave young driver way I thought it was all his fault for not looking before he pulled out but in retrospect I believe I played just as big a part in causing the incident due to the speed at which I closed on him relative to his own pace (30 in a 60). No one hurt at least.
Unfortunately a car with better performance whilst it may make the overtake quicker also makes speeding more likely IMHO. Years ago I used to drive a Chevette and still managed overtakes in safety. These days the car is quicker but overtaking doesn't seem necessarily easier - the opportunites are fewer for a number of reasons - more traffic, and less space left between cars increased road furniture reductions in speed limits etc.
SamHH said:
vonhosen said:
Circumstances matter & in this case the important view of whether it amounted to dangerous driving was not the officer's view. It was the courts.
Isn't it likely that the court's opinion was heavily based on the opinion of the officer?
Th court will listen to all the evidence, prosecution & defence.
They will then decide on whether what they have heard amounts to actions falling far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. It would also have to be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.
"from what you are saying you weren't prosecuted for dangerous, you were prosecuted for speeding.
There is no exemption from the speed limit for the purpose of performing an overtake."
vanHosen - the copper said that he couldnt be bothered to go to court, so gave me a speeding fine instead. it confused me too!!! I'm not sure how legal that is...
There is no exemption from the speed limit for the purpose of performing an overtake."
vanHosen - the copper said that he couldnt be bothered to go to court, so gave me a speeding fine instead. it confused me too!!! I'm not sure how legal that is...
drakart said:
vonhosen said:
from what you are saying you weren't prosecuted for dangerous, you were prosecuted for speeding.
There is no exemption from the speed limit for the purpose of performing an overtake.
There is no exemption from the speed limit for the purpose of performing an overtake.
vanHosen - the copper said that he couldnt be bothered to go to court, so gave me a speeding fine instead. it confused me too!!! I'm not sure how legal that is...
The choice of court if he decides to prosecute is not his, it's yours.
If you were speeding, hime deciding to prosecute for exceedig the limit is quite legal.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 November 19:01
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