IAM - how to attract younger drivers?
Discussion
MrKipling43 said:
Well you use the opportunity to drive on a circuit to attract younger kids and show them how cars react to certain situations, and the surrounding roads to teach them advanced driving.
If you said a combined course for yoof's that gave instruction on a race circuit by circuit instructors, and followed by an on road course by Class 1/IAM instructors to demonstrate that the two disciplines are like 'chalk and cheese' and largely irrelevant to each other, then I would agree with the idea.
aeropilot said:
If you said a combined course for yoof's that gave instruction on a race circuit by circuit instructors, and followed by an on road course by Class 1/IAM instructors to demonstrate that the two disciplines are like 'chalk and cheese' and largely irrelevant to each other, then I would agree with the idea.
Couldn't some aspects of car control be taught on a circuit or airfield?
I’m fairly sure that if they were taught how to get them self out of a tricky situation on a race track or even a skid pan of some sort it would help! I’ve had race track tuition since the age of 13 and now i feel pretty confident with controlling a car.
Although if they did go through a course like this they might think that they know everything and still drive fast and recklessly. You would have to think of some way that would actually slow them down and make them safer drivers.
I also think that if the instructors were young then the 'lads' would listen to them more as the age gap would be smaller.
Michal
Although if they did go through a course like this they might think that they know everything and still drive fast and recklessly. You would have to think of some way that would actually slow them down and make them safer drivers.
I also think that if the instructors were young then the 'lads' would listen to them more as the age gap would be smaller.
Michal
Edited by little RZD on Thursday 16th November 15:30
RZD has some good ideas.
Those who want to drive fast WILL drive fast, regardless. An Airfield or part-airfield course will do 2 things:-
- Increase their limits, so they can drive FASTER; but also
- Increase their chances of catching a car when they eventually breach those limits.
Only one of these is desirable. But I suspect that it will outweigh the first. The trick will be teaching them the right attitude...and sadly I don't have any bright ideas there.
Actually...I do have one. Ask them to drive an airfield course, but paint onto the airfield some 'roads' for them to stick to, plus 'pavements', 'people', and 'houses'. That way, when they get it wrong, you can get them out of the car and point to the kerb they hit, the mother-and-child they squashed, and the house they're now embedded in. Houses and people possibly as polystyrene or similar cut-outs (not sure if that'd prevent them pushing quite as hard or not?).
Those who want to drive fast WILL drive fast, regardless. An Airfield or part-airfield course will do 2 things:-
- Increase their limits, so they can drive FASTER; but also
- Increase their chances of catching a car when they eventually breach those limits.
Only one of these is desirable. But I suspect that it will outweigh the first. The trick will be teaching them the right attitude...and sadly I don't have any bright ideas there.
Actually...I do have one. Ask them to drive an airfield course, but paint onto the airfield some 'roads' for them to stick to, plus 'pavements', 'people', and 'houses'. That way, when they get it wrong, you can get them out of the car and point to the kerb they hit, the mother-and-child they squashed, and the house they're now embedded in. Houses and people possibly as polystyrene or similar cut-outs (not sure if that'd prevent them pushing quite as hard or not?).
little RZD said:
I’m fairly sure that if they were taught how to get them self out of a tricky situation on a race track or even a skid pan of some sort it would help!
Skid pan...definately, or at least those skid cradle thingies would be better than nothing.
Still don't agree about the use of circuit's, not in terms of relevance of how best to get around a track and how best to drive on the road.
True - although I'm not really thinking along the lines of circuit tuition as in 'this is the racing line' - just the opportunity to have a safe environment in which to experiment with the kids, teach car control techniques and what will happen if you do breach a car's limits.
It will also mean you can control the conditions of driving and demonstrate the differences between a wet and a dry road.
I also think you need to get the parents... I wonder how many 18 year olds actually pay for their own cars and insurance.
It will also mean you can control the conditions of driving and demonstrate the differences between a wet and a dry road.
I also think you need to get the parents... I wonder how many 18 year olds actually pay for their own cars and insurance.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Thursday 16th November 16:33
aeropilot said:
little RZD said:
I’m fairly sure that if they were taught how to get them self out of a tricky situation on a race track or even a skid pan of some sort it would help!
Skid pan...definately, or at least those skid cradle thingies would be better than nothing.
Still don't agree about the use of circuit's, not in terms of relevance of how best to get around a track and how best to drive on the road.
Icompletely understand where you are coming from but the whole 'race track' would draw the young people in! I know if I was asked to choose between an air field or a race track, it would be the circuit.
Also you use the circuit for different things, for example on wide circuits you could set up slalom with cones. In fact you could split a circuit up in to different sectors where the lads get taught different things. Maybe at the end they would be allowed to complete a few laps each.
What about those smoothness tests where a bowl of water is put on the roof of a car and the pupil has to drive around without spilling the water? Would teaching them how to drive smoothly help?
Michal
little RZD said:
Would teaching them how to drive smoothly help?
Michal
Michal
No. Its nice and aids safety but by far the most important lesson we can teach them is:
Always travel such that you can STOP in the distance you can SEE to be CLEAR on YOUR SIDE OF THE ROAD.
Curvature of the road affects this with respect to grip use for turning and braking and also, more importantly, visibility.
This is the lesson that has to be got across - it includes observation, reading the road and curves and driving technique. But the key message is
"If you run off the road you ran out of only one thing: TALENT."
A circuit really doesn't have the facilities for the driving exercises. Airfields have the space and room for handling exercises. Roads are where you teach the observation techniques.
I'm afraid I think circuits may have a popular draw - but their hire is expensive and they're not really useful. Far better is a half day airfield, half day road - both in terms of cost of hire and also the kind of exercises that you can do.
Time for another plug for Chelmsford IAM Group...
We are still refunding the full £75-00 to 21 and unders and £40-00 to the 25 and unders if they take and pass the course - the books are supplied in this offer.
There is also a separate 'Young Drivers Scheme'giving sessions by the local ADI Association for 16 and under in a private business park - not much money for the ADIs..but the youngsters are likely to return to the ADI when they start lessons.
There are also skid pan sessions periodically (my personal thinking is that these are 'a fun day out' and of little value regarding safety).
We also had great help from Essex Traffic Police for a while - any youngster 'talked to' would get a follow up letter with contact details and news of the refund offer.
BOF.
No Pringle sweater - Marks and Sparks cardigan...
www.iamchelmsford.org.uk/
www.allmotortraining.co.uk/
We are still refunding the full £75-00 to 21 and unders and £40-00 to the 25 and unders if they take and pass the course - the books are supplied in this offer.
There is also a separate 'Young Drivers Scheme'giving sessions by the local ADI Association for 16 and under in a private business park - not much money for the ADIs..but the youngsters are likely to return to the ADI when they start lessons.
There are also skid pan sessions periodically (my personal thinking is that these are 'a fun day out' and of little value regarding safety).
We also had great help from Essex Traffic Police for a while - any youngster 'talked to' would get a follow up letter with contact details and news of the refund offer.
BOF.
No Pringle sweater - Marks and Sparks cardigan...
www.iamchelmsford.org.uk/
www.allmotortraining.co.uk/
Edited by BOF on Friday 17th November 11:40
Edited by BOF on Sunday 19th November 09:58
At 30 years old I wouldn't class myself as a 'younger' driver, but I have only been driving for 6 months or so. As mentioned in other threads I live in London, Vespa to commute etc so for various reasons never quite got round to driving.
I now have myself a nice MR2 (Mk2 - the nice looking one IMO). My road awareness is greater than my driving experience would suggest (riding a Vespa through Central London rush hour does tend to hone this). I would like to make the most of my car, in a safe way on the roads, and essentially be as good a driver as I can be. My question is, should I get in touch with IAM now or should I have more experience first? The website is unclear on this and even the name is a little off-putting (i.e. I'm not an advanced driver so should I be looking join the institute).
Being a little bit older I'm probably more sensible than many newly qualified teenagers, but I do like driving my car much more than my girlfriends Ka. As I suspect is the case with many PHers, I bought a sports car for a reason
I now have myself a nice MR2 (Mk2 - the nice looking one IMO). My road awareness is greater than my driving experience would suggest (riding a Vespa through Central London rush hour does tend to hone this). I would like to make the most of my car, in a safe way on the roads, and essentially be as good a driver as I can be. My question is, should I get in touch with IAM now or should I have more experience first? The website is unclear on this and even the name is a little off-putting (i.e. I'm not an advanced driver so should I be looking join the institute).
Being a little bit older I'm probably more sensible than many newly qualified teenagers, but I do like driving my car much more than my girlfriends Ka. As I suspect is the case with many PHers, I bought a sports car for a reason
JohnnyPanic said:
should I get in touch with IAM now or should I have more experience first?
Johhny - Don't wait, do it now, then the experience you get is the good stuff, not the bad.
By the way, I mean any Advanced, not specifically IAM (though you wouldn't go amiss with that whatever anyone tells you).
BFF
JohnnyPanic said:
What are the main options
Johhny
IAM/Rospa - not too much to choose between them. You can get to the same 'level' on both, it's down to you. Rospa is graded Bronze, Silver, Gold and has a three year retest. IAM is pass/fail and no retest, but there are other levels you can then go for. IAM has more groups, so may be more suitable for where you are.
At your stage you are best looking at one of the above (unless your job offers you other options). They will definitely improve your overall driving skills and mindset, and then set you up for further learning if you want. There are other options, but they are costly at this stage.
Get in touch with your local groups for a chat, speak to someone you know and trust, and check out the sites.
BFF
JohnnyPanic said:
Ok, thanks BFF - I shall look into both IAM and ROSPA and see how I get on.
Johnny - try this.
www.advanced-driving.co.uk/
I don't post or visit there, but it's supposed to be good and supportive of IAM and Rospa.
Enjoy.
Hi Guys, this is my first post though I've been a 'lurker' in here for a while. 
I'm a 26 year old IAM member and I think they have a massive image problem. The popular impression among my peers (who are mostly professionals around the 30 mark) is that the IAM are a group of wheel-shuffling dawdlers with an almost anal approach to speed. As a member and having attended IAM nights I can understand why this is. I dread to think what an 18 year old's view of the institute is!
At a recent ANPR demo by the local police station, one IAM member suggested electronically cutting the throttle when the speed limit was reached - this opinion was seconded by another member. Thankfully the officer giving the demo wasn't as stupid and rightly pointed out that he does not want his throttle cutting when he's overtaking a tractor!
The only way the IAM are going to attract younger members is by focusing more on driver skill and less on hard and fast rules. I recall one of my early observed runs when my observer told me 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 - my TDi is more than happy in 5th at 40 (and even 6th on the flat) and I explained that modern TDi's do not need to be driven like 1970's 1000cc petrol cars - there was a complete lack of flexibility and I was told I was wrong. Needless to say now I have pased the test I drive in an appropriate gear for m speed and the conditions and gradient, rather than applying a blanket ruling.
Lets see more appropriate, modern teachings. Less focus on blanket rulings and more focus on what is appropriate for today's roads. Without a modernisation of the institute I believe it will slowly die out.
Wow, what a miserable chap I sound like on my first post!
I'm a 26 year old IAM member and I think they have a massive image problem. The popular impression among my peers (who are mostly professionals around the 30 mark) is that the IAM are a group of wheel-shuffling dawdlers with an almost anal approach to speed. As a member and having attended IAM nights I can understand why this is. I dread to think what an 18 year old's view of the institute is!
At a recent ANPR demo by the local police station, one IAM member suggested electronically cutting the throttle when the speed limit was reached - this opinion was seconded by another member. Thankfully the officer giving the demo wasn't as stupid and rightly pointed out that he does not want his throttle cutting when he's overtaking a tractor!
The only way the IAM are going to attract younger members is by focusing more on driver skill and less on hard and fast rules. I recall one of my early observed runs when my observer told me 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 - my TDi is more than happy in 5th at 40 (and even 6th on the flat) and I explained that modern TDi's do not need to be driven like 1970's 1000cc petrol cars - there was a complete lack of flexibility and I was told I was wrong. Needless to say now I have pased the test I drive in an appropriate gear for m speed and the conditions and gradient, rather than applying a blanket ruling.
Lets see more appropriate, modern teachings. Less focus on blanket rulings and more focus on what is appropriate for today's roads. Without a modernisation of the institute I believe it will slowly die out.
Wow, what a miserable chap I sound like on my first post!
StevRS said:
Hi Guys, this is my first post though I've been a 'lurker' in here for a while.
I'm a 26 year old IAM member and I think they have a massive image problem. The popular impression among my peers (who are mostly professionals around the 30 mark) is that the IAM are a group of wheel-shuffling dawdlers with an almost anal approach to speed. As a member and having attended IAM nights I can understand why this is. I dread to think what an 18 year old's view of the institute is!
At a recent ANPR demo by the local police station, one IAM member suggested electronically cutting the throttle when the speed limit was reached - this opinion was seconded by another member. Thankfully the officer giving the demo wasn't as stupid and rightly pointed out that he does not want his throttle cutting when he's overtaking a tractor!
The only way the IAM are going to attract younger members is by focusing more on driver skill and less on hard and fast rules. I recall one of my early observed runs when my observer told me 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 - my TDi is more than happy in 5th at 40 (and even 6th on the flat) and I explained that modern TDi's do not need to be driven like 1970's 1000cc petrol cars - there was a complete lack of flexibility and I was told I was wrong. Needless to say now I have pased the test I drive in an appropriate gear for m speed and the conditions and gradient, rather than applying a blanket ruling.
Lets see more appropriate, modern teachings. Less focus on blanket rulings and more focus on what is appropriate for today's roads. Without a modernisation of the institute I believe it will slowly die out.
Wow, what a miserable chap I sound like on my first post!
I'm a 26 year old IAM member and I think they have a massive image problem. The popular impression among my peers (who are mostly professionals around the 30 mark) is that the IAM are a group of wheel-shuffling dawdlers with an almost anal approach to speed. As a member and having attended IAM nights I can understand why this is. I dread to think what an 18 year old's view of the institute is!
At a recent ANPR demo by the local police station, one IAM member suggested electronically cutting the throttle when the speed limit was reached - this opinion was seconded by another member. Thankfully the officer giving the demo wasn't as stupid and rightly pointed out that he does not want his throttle cutting when he's overtaking a tractor!
The only way the IAM are going to attract younger members is by focusing more on driver skill and less on hard and fast rules. I recall one of my early observed runs when my observer told me 3rd at 30, 4th at 40 - my TDi is more than happy in 5th at 40 (and even 6th on the flat) and I explained that modern TDi's do not need to be driven like 1970's 1000cc petrol cars - there was a complete lack of flexibility and I was told I was wrong. Needless to say now I have pased the test I drive in an appropriate gear for m speed and the conditions and gradient, rather than applying a blanket ruling.
Lets see more appropriate, modern teachings. Less focus on blanket rulings and more focus on what is appropriate for today's roads. Without a modernisation of the institute I believe it will slowly die out.
Wow, what a miserable chap I sound like on my first post!
Become an Observer. Start to change things from the inside. That's my strategy!
There is also the issue that not everyone who becomes an Observer can be a top flight driver and less of them can be a top flight instructor. There is a reason people like Don Palmer can charge £400-£500 a day!
Having said this there are a lot of really good Observers who can adapt to whatever you may be driving - sounds like your one wanted to teach by soundbite. This is useful with some people who don't care why they just want to know what to do. Many older ladies are like this, for example.
Younger chaps, like yourself, probably want teaching that explains why something is a good idea and then gets backed up with practical examples. I prefer instructing like this. I've had people with sports cars through to an electric car enthusiast driving a Prius. Clearly these cars are utterly different and need a different approach to car control - the principles of Observation and The System work perfectly well in each case, however, one simply needs to apply a bit of intelligence!
Our group attempts to turn out "thinking" drivers - who use their intelligence. But not all Observers can be the best coaches at that. They usually have something to offer however!
Anyway - all the best and well done for passing your test and being an IAM member. If you aren't already become an Observer and try to change things for the better! You're 26 - LOTS of younger drivers would LOVE to have a younger Observer like you. I'm sad to say that 26 IS a younger member - I wish that was different but its a fact. (I'm 41 and I feel young in our Group!)
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