IAM - how to attract younger drivers?
Discussion
the slight dichotomy comes in as much as one of the strengths of the Roadcraft approach in its completeness is that it is all applied as a system.
This makes it teachable and testable and reliable.
This completeness is then perhaps at the perceived expense of flexibility which taken to the extreme turns into dogma which turns people off.
So an example, one handed steering would generally be considered to be a "bad thing" and not part of the roadcraft method of Advanced Driving, not taught and marked down if used in the Advanced Driving test.
However I know of people who have superb car control and only use one hand.
Graham
This makes it teachable and testable and reliable.
This completeness is then perhaps at the perceived expense of flexibility which taken to the extreme turns into dogma which turns people off.
So an example, one handed steering would generally be considered to be a "bad thing" and not part of the roadcraft method of Advanced Driving, not taught and marked down if used in the Advanced Driving test.
However I know of people who have superb car control and only use one hand.
Graham
Hi all, good thread, we've been trying to set up a scheme for almost 12 months using motorsport as a 'hook' for youngsters. Everything is in place with many people prepared to give time, effort and equipment. Funding is a huge problem, nobody wants to be paid but running costs have to be met and this is proving to be difficult.
The Pass Plus scheme is fine but the take up is only around 14%. If safe driving is to be taken on board by youngsters it has to be taken from "anorak" territory towards being cool. I think motorsport and an emphasis on " car control" has to be the way to go!
All the best
OneStep
The Pass Plus scheme is fine but the take up is only around 14%. If safe driving is to be taken on board by youngsters it has to be taken from "anorak" territory towards being cool. I think motorsport and an emphasis on " car control" has to be the way to go!
All the best
OneStep
I agree. Unfortunately it requires too much investment for little immediate gain therefore the government aren't interested.
If we could reduce accidents among the 17-25 group imagine how much money it would save overall (NHS, Fire, Ambulance, lost business hours through hold-ups etc).
If we could reduce accidents among the 17-25 group imagine how much money it would save overall (NHS, Fire, Ambulance, lost business hours through hold-ups etc).
It is no good pulling youngsters in if it will not make them safer drivers.
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
waremark said:
It is no good pulling youngsters in if it will not make them safer drivers.
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
Some will argue for not training such things at all to certain groups, because of the effect that some training can have on their confidence levels by rapidly overinflating them.
There may be something to be said for being rubbish & knowing that you are, rather than simply being lulled into thinking you are a lot better than you are.
That is why if any such training is given some human/attitude input should be given as well.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 1st December 07:10
vonhosen said:
waremark said:
It is no good pulling youngsters in if it will not make them safer drivers.
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
Not at all sure that I agree that pulling youngsters in through motorsport and limit handling will make them any safer. I took my 19 year old (who is a very capable driver) for some skid car experience. He was very good and he had a fantastic time, but now he is rather keen to try it on the road! He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
So if you use motorsport and limit handling at all to attract youngsters, I think the most you should do is hold out the prospect as a reward for successfully completing an advanced driving course.
Now waiting for my son who sometimes posts on PH to reply!
Some will argue for not training such things at all to certain groups, because of the effect that some training can have on their confidence levels by rapidly overinflating them.
There may be something to be said for being rubbish & knowing that you are, rather than simply being lulled into thinking you are a lot better than you are.
That is why if any such training is given some human/attitude input should be given as well.
Roadcraft has a good chapter cautioning students about overconfidence inspired by training.
Our IAM Group does skid pan sessions. They're great fun. They teach the "principles" of handling a sliding car. IN NO WAY does sliding about at 15mph equate to sliding about at 100mph plus in the dry with lots of grip. We try to caution attendees that they are learning principles - not practical skills to be exploited on road!
Very valid points and obviously well informed. The one about being rubbish and knowing you are is great (it's worked for me for years) but how do you get that across to the average 17 yr old with his new gun full of bullets provided by the DSA. A change of attitude is the ultimate goal but if the youngsters won't apply for any kind of training in the first place some kind of incentive is needed.It's a difficult balance to achieve and any sugestions are more than welcome.
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
waremark said:
He has a friend who has done an ARDS course and got his racing license, and he has written off two cars on the road.
Yes but an ARDS course is basically a test, like a normal driving test but on the track. Therefore it teaches you nothing about car control and wouldn’t have much to do with him writing off two cars IMO
. Young kids like me just need to be really scared. Being too cocky and over confident has a major effect on their driving style.
Hmmmm OK maybe the motorsport idea isn’t the best way of dealing with this, but how about and army 'boot camp' approach? They could go to a camp for a week or two, a similar thing to 'brat camp' although with cars? Could this work?
Michal
OneStep said:
Very valid points and obviously well informed. The one about being rubbish and knowing you are is great (it's worked for me for years) but how do you get that across to the average 17 yr old with his new gun full of bullets provided by the DSA. A change of attitude is the ultimate goal but if the youngsters won't apply for any kind of training in the first place some kind of incentive is needed.It's a difficult balance to achieve and any sugestions are more than welcome.
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking education at all.
Just that a great deal of thought has to be taken with regards to who your target audience is & what negative as well as positive effects such training can have. We wouldn't after all want to make things worse in striving to make them better.
Addressing attitudes shouldn't be underestimated in the provision of any training. Start with attitude input, deliver the training & finish with some timely reminders of the attitude aspect. In all likelyhood a lot of the attitude stuff at the start may get a "yeah yeah" from them, but if you've caught their attention with the skills section, you'll have their attention for the second attitude input.
Thanks for the input, good point about the start/ finish with the attitude talk. Waremark hit the nail on the head with the approach, the idea is to use it as a type of reward for completing the training as opposed to " come and have a jolly on us", although a smaller "carrot" halfway through wouldn't hurt. We can call on some good people for all of this and it would be a crying shame to have all the offers of so much help go to waste, so back to the grindstone to try and find some money.
OneStep
OneStep
OneStep said:
Very valid points and obviously well informed. The one about being rubbish and knowing you are is great (it's worked for me for years) but how do you get that across to the average 17 yr old with his new gun full of bullets provided by the DSA. A change of attitude is the ultimate goal but if the youngsters won't apply for any kind of training in the first place some kind of incentive is needed.It's a difficult balance to achieve and any sugestions are more than welcome.
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
There was a local case recently where a newly qualified driver crashed on a moorland road and 4 young girls lost their lives. The driver was arrested so I should imagine that he was driving too quickly, had no idea where the limit was or the consequenses of going beyond. Could some kind of training have saved the lives or would he have just been going faster when he crashed? Don't know, but if motorsport can be used to get people "in through the door" for the change of attitude to be set in motion then it can't be a bad thing.
OneStep
You know its funny, ive been phoning Edinburgh IAM for the past 3 days and they wont actually answer or return my calls.
Im 18 and have been drving for 364 days at present.
Anybody know anyone from Edinburgh IAM? Tell them to answer my call!
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