Straightening a bend
Discussion
When going around a corner, is it correct to 'straighten' it by using the full width of the road? Roadcraft and the IAM's How to be an Advanced Driver both seem to say that, where it is safe to do so, you should initially position yourself at the outside of the corner to improve visibility and once you can see past the exit you should move in towards the inside of the corner (in your lane) and then back towards the centre of the lane once you have exited the corner.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
SamHH said:
When going around a corner, is it correct to 'straighten' it by using the full width of the road? Roadcraft and the IAM's How to be an Advanced Driver both seem to say that, where it is safe to do so, you should initially position yourself at the outside of the corner to improve visibility and once you can see past the exit you should move in towards the inside of the corner (in your lane) and then back towards the centre of the lane once you have exited the corner.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
You are asking a volunteer to go out with someone who drives on the wrong side of the road??? Having been there I know what you are talking about but if you were involved in an accident.... They want you to pass your test and you can do that just by using your side of the road and applying the techniques
softtop said:
You are asking a volunteer to go out with someone who drives on the wrong side of the road??? Having been there I know what you are talking about but if you were involved in an accident.... They want you to pass your test and you can do that just by using your side of the road and applying the techniques
Sorry, I wrote that badly. I should have written "use the full width of your lane". I'm not talking about driving on the wrong side of the road.
SamHH said:
When going around a corner, is it correct to 'straighten' it by using the full width of the road?
SamHH - as a matter of interest, do you mean using the full width of the road (both lanes) to straighten out a bend, or do you mean using the full width of your lane to take a different line around a corner.
Once you've defined that, the interminable debate can start on the best line.
BFF
edited to add - you got in first
Edited by Big Fat F'er on Wednesday 13th December 12:19
Big Fat F'er said:
SamHH said:
When going around a corner, is it correct to 'straighten' it by using the full width of the road?
SamHH - as a matter of interest, do you mean using the full width of the road (both lanes) to straighten out a bend, or do you mean using the full width of your lane to take a different line around a corner.
Once you've defined that, the interminable debate can start on the best line.
BFF
The full width of your lane, not the the full width of the road (both lanes). Sorry for the ambiguity.
softtop said:
GreenV8S said:
I pay road tax on both sides of the road, and I don't see any reason not to use the full width when it's legal and safe to do so.
and its ok with the passenger....
Out of common courtesy I aim to make sure my passengers are comfortable at all times, but I don't see why that should preclude using the full width of the road to straighten a bend, or over taking somebody, or any other manoeuver that can be completed safely, legally and comfortably. I've never met anyone so far who showed any sign of concern about it, but if I had a passenger who I thought was uncomfortable about it then I'd avoid doing it. Is it something that would make you uncomfortable? If so, why?
SamHH said:
When going around a corner, is it correct to 'straighten' it by using the full width of the road? Roadcraft and the IAM's How to be an Advanced Driver both seem to say that, where it is safe to do so, you should initially position yourself at the outside of the corner to improve visibility and once you can see past the exit you should move in towards the inside of the corner (in your lane) and then back towards the centre of the lane once you have exited the corner.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
However, I've just been on my first observed drive with the IAM and my observer said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
The way I understand or interpret the IAM method is that, where it is safe to do so, you should always do as you describe but the reason is not to straighten the bend but to improve your visibilty and to give yourself space to steer away from any hazard that was not foreseen. The side effect of this is a 'straightening' of the bend which enables you to adopt a more 'press on' style of driving which is what the IAM does, or did, advocate.
GreenV8S said:
softtop said:
GreenV8S said:
I pay road tax on both sides of the road, and I don't see any reason not to use the full width when it's legal and safe to do so.
and its ok with the passenger....
Is it something that would make you uncomfortable? If so, why?
not me, I am fine with it and do it all the time, however there are those who are nervous of anything that is outside of the 'norm'.
DarkMatter said:
The way I understand or interpret the IAM method is that, where it is safe to do so, you should always do as you describe but the reason is not to straighten the bend but to improve your visibilty and to give yourself space to steer away from any hazard that was not foreseen. The side effect of this is a 'straightening' of the bend which enables you to adopt a more 'press on' style of driving which is what the IAM does, or did, advocate.
The IAM manual says:
How to be an Advanced Driver said:
The best course through a corner means adjusting your position on the road to seek two benefits - to obtain the best view ahead and to 'straighten' the curve.
Based on that I would say that you should start on the outside of the corner (within your lane) and once you can see past the exit move to the inside of the corner (within your lane) thereby 'straightening' the bend. Once you have finished going round the corner you would return to the centre of your lane.
However, when I asked my observer about this she said that straightening a bend in this way is not something the IAM does. She said that the only objective of positioning in corners is to improve visibility. This means starting on the outside of the corner (in your lane) and once you can see past the exit, moving back to the centre of your lane.
Obviously, I'm talking about the optimum path; there might be obstacles that force you to take an alternative, safer position.
Edited by SamHH on Wednesday 13th December 14:01
SamHH said:
... said that the only positioning you should do in a corner is moving towards the outside to improve visibility and that 'straightening' a corner is not something that the IAM practices.
That's rubbish, we position for :
1. Safety
2. Visability
3. Reduce forces on vehicle
So if she only said point 2. she's wrong ...
I was out with a RoSPA examiner who activley encourged using the "wrong side of the road", not just my side, I know IAM examiners likewise, and then some who don't allow it.
As far as straigntening bends, this is not always what you want ...for example on "fast bends" I may take a line such that I'm slow in (for safety), but fast out, so I may (depending on road layout) get to a certain point, then momentarily tighten my line (the opposite effectively of straigntening a bend), but, I can then get on the gas maybe 3 or 4 car lengths earlier, giving me a stright line out of the bend earlier and thus more progress.
As far as IAM, you should be ok to use the entire width of your side of the road, no matter how many lanes (in your direction) - so you can effectivlty strighten a bend, whilst staying on your side of the road, by using multiple lanes. - providing not a bus lane in operating hours.
There's a sort of "S" bend nr. me, 3 lanes in "my direction", if no-one about and safe, I'll straighten it, going lane1 - all the way across to lane 3, then back to lane one as I take an exit off ... completely "IAM allowed".
For test, I would either ask your examiner what he allows, or just stick to your side of the road.
Martin
ps. and change your observer
Edited by mph999 on Wednesday 13th December 15:40
softtop said:
GreenV8S said:
I pay road tax on both sides of the road, and I don't see any reason not to use the full width when it's legal and safe to do so.
and its ok with the passenger....
And it will not run the risk of causing concern or confusion to the driver of another vehicle.
SamHH said:
.....my observer said....
SamHH - don't give up on your Observer just yet.
A lot of folk take great pleasure in stating that the IAM and Roadcraft and Rospa (and yes, even HPC) are too prescriptive, and that they should allow individual interpretation. Yet when your Observer gives her individual interpretation (which I happen to think is worng, just like someothers) it's recommended you drop her.
Get your head around some ideas, and discuss it with her. If She still can't or won't explain, THEN do something about her.
The info is out there.
BFF
Big Fat F'er said:
SamHH said:
.....my observer said....
SamHH - don't give up on your Observer just yet.
A lot of folk take great pleasure in stating that the IAM and Roadcraft and Rospa (and yes, even HPC) are too prescriptive, and that they should allow individual interpretation. Yet when your Observer gives her individual interpretation (which I happen to think is worng, just like someothers) it's recommended you drop her.
Get your head around some ideas, and discuss it with her. If She still can't or won't explain, THEN do something about her.
The info is out there.
BFF
Of course. I'm not going to ask to change observers simply on the basis of this. Maybe my observer and I misunderstood each other. I'll bring it up again next time, and this time I'll have Roadcraft and the IAM manual on hand so that she can see what exactly I mean.
Big Fat F'er said:
SamHH said:
.....my observer said....
SamHH - don't give up on your Observer just yet.
A lot of folk take great pleasure in stating that the IAM and Roadcraft and Rospa (and yes, even HPC) are too prescriptive, and that they should allow individual interpretation. Yet when your Observer gives her individual interpretation (which I happen to think is worng, just like someothers) it's recommended you drop her.
Get your head around some ideas, and discuss it with her. If She still can't or won't explain, THEN do something about her.
The info is out there.
BFF
Sorry, I was a bit harsh ... was in a very bad mood yesterday ...
M
SamHH said:
Maybe my observer and I misunderstood each other. I'll bring it up again next time...
SamHH - let us know what she says. Couple of pointers for your discussion.
Straightening a bend is different to straightening a corner, ususally 'cos of vision (see mph999's above).
The racing line is not recommended in IAM, but she needs to explain to you why, not just say no.
You position for a number of reasons (at least 3) not just vision.
The 'IAM' cornering line is not as slow as some would have you believe. You can brake later 'cos you are still straight, and put gas on early 'cos you have straightened. It works for the Sweeny, it should be okay for you.
Don't let someone tell you why the IAM method is wrong by discussing racing lines at racing speeds. Different issues.
Go for it.
BFF
I brought up this topic again when I went out with my observer today. Initially she said the same thing as last time: you should stick to the outside of your lane when going round a bend and not attempt to 'straighten' it. I showed her the relevant section of Roadcraft. She seemed to be unfamiliar with this section and felt that it was instructing readers to compromise visibility in favour of reducing cornering forces (the diagram does make it look like this).
However, she accepted that 'straightening' a bend is part of Roadcraft and suggested that a compromise must be struck between doing this and gaining maximum visibility. I'm glad we sorted it out but am surprised that she wasn't more familiar with this technique and how it should be applied.
However, she accepted that 'straightening' a bend is part of Roadcraft and suggested that a compromise must be struck between doing this and gaining maximum visibility. I'm glad we sorted it out but am surprised that she wasn't more familiar with this technique and how it should be applied.
Edited by SamHH on Thursday 21st December 14:51
waremark said:
softtop said:
GreenV8S said:
I pay road tax on both sides of the road, and I don't see any reason not to use the full width when it's legal and safe to do so.
and its ok with the passenger....
And it will not run the risk of causing concern or confusion to the driver of another vehicle.
or a walker, horserider, cyclist or biker
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