My IAM experience
Discussion
Rick448 said:
Vaux said:
GreenV8S said:
The hand is cupped over and round the gear knob but pressing against it rather than gripping it.
Hardcore purists would require that the numbers on top of the gear lever are readable by a passenger........
Lol yeah i heard that too.. pathetic really.
Steady - that's what I try to do!
doctorpepper said:
stefan1 said:
Since being taught to do so, I find this really helps make sure a) I have a firm grip and b) that I am clear about the shift movement I am about to make. I am not suggesting one's hand is on the gearshift for a long time before the change, but just that there is good time for shift to be well prepared for.
I am thinking back to some of the passenger laps (non recently) that I have had on track with yourself, Joe911 and our very own "DC" and one that sticks out is that the gear change always looked like it took a long time but never once halted the progress on track. The gearchanges in the video appear to be more "rifle bolt" in action. So would/do you apply the same method when on the road as you do when on the track?
I don’t change as quickly (or as well!) as Wallace, but there are differences due to the car. Most racecars, and the F1 particularly, have very light flywheels and very little engine inertia. As a result, the revs drop very fast once the clutch is depressed. This allows for a very fast change without the risk of re-engaging the clutch when the revs are still above the level for the next gear.
When I changed from a dual mass to single mass flywheel on my GT3, I could speed up my upchanges for this reason.
That said, on a track day one is not necessarily going for all out speed – and so I will change gear with mechanical sympathy and smoothness in mind. When racing I could certainly still be faster with my changes, but I do shift quicker compared to a normal track day.
And generally my track shifts are faster than on the road, where I tend to DDC for smoothness.
Kind regards
Steve
waremark said:
Vaux said:
Steady - that's what I try to do!
Isn't your thumb on top so hiding the numbers from your passenger when changing to 4th/5th or 5th/6th?
I have it a bit to the side, not over the top. It's still "up" relative to "down".
But this is getting even to anal for me.............
As one who is thinking of signing up for the IAM test I'd like to ask a couple of dumb questions about it and thought I'd join this thread rather than start a new one 
. So:
1. Do you have to avoid breaking the speed limit at all costs (both during instruction and the test)?
2. Can you use an automatic that has a manual overide (tiptronic)? I can use another car but it would not be my first choice.
p.s. on the topic of leaving the indicator on I'll often leave it on while in a filter lane at a junction, to let other drivers know that I'm not one of those impatient queue jumpers that is suddenly going to blast away from the lights and weave back in front of the traffic that is in the correct lane.
BTW Don't forget to update us in your progress Sam.
. So: 1. Do you have to avoid breaking the speed limit at all costs (both during instruction and the test)?
2. Can you use an automatic that has a manual overide (tiptronic)? I can use another car but it would not be my first choice.
p.s. on the topic of leaving the indicator on I'll often leave it on while in a filter lane at a junction, to let other drivers know that I'm not one of those impatient queue jumpers that is suddenly going to blast away from the lights and weave back in front of the traffic that is in the correct lane.
BTW Don't forget to update us in your progress Sam.
boxsey said:
1. Do you have to avoid breaking the speed limit at all costs (both during instruction and the test)?
2. Can you use an automatic that has a manual overide (tiptronic)? I can use another car but it would not be my first choice.
1. Yes, absolutely. You might get away with the old 10% rule (especially on a motorway) if it would lead to a significantly safer manouevre. Truth is you should *planning* on not needing to break the speed limit. During instruction you may feck up. That's OK - it will be noted but that's all. On test day you should have the finesse not to break any limits. I always say - an Advanced Driver doesn't break the speed limit by accident, nor do they get "forced" into breaking the speed limit by bad planning. Nope. When an Advanced Driver breaks they speed limit they do it "malice aforethought", quite deliberately and often by a substantial margin. And, like as not, they will be planning on not getting caught!
2. Yes you can use an automatic. And yes if its a tiptronic that's fine too. You may find it easier to pass the test in an auto as brake/gearchange seperation can be difficult to master for some. Using an auto leaves you free to concentrate on observation/planning - which is more important anyway.
agent006 said:
I once read that if you use an auto you will be expected to use its control facilities and not just bung it in drive and forget about it. True?
If appropriate - yes. For example - it may be appropriate to prevent the gearbox from changing up during a sequence of bends and then putting it back into drive once on the straight. I'm not an auto specialist, mind.
stefan1 said:
On this question of the best grip for the gearlever, I do agree that a firm grip in the manner described is best.
But, for me, there's an even more important guide - which is to make sure you take the grip in good time before making the gear change.
If you watch some of the best racing drivers (before the advent of paddle shifts!), they do just this. A great example is Andy Wallace in the McLaren F1 in practice for Le Mans - see the link below:
[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc[/url]
(It's about 4 minutes, and has several good shots of his gearchanging, which is sublime.)
Since being taught to do so, I find this really helps make sure a) I have a firm grip and b) that I am clear about the shift movement I am about to make. I am not suggesting one's hand is on the gearshift for a long time before the change, but just that there is good time for shift to be well prepared for.
I have sat next to many drivers who grab at the gearshift a fraction too late, and as a result slightly mis-time their change. Or worse still, fluff the change. This is exacerbated if they also take a weak grip.
One very obvious point is that the "thumb up / down" rule reverses for LHD cars.
Kind regards
Steve
Nice vid, but at 2:12 he does bend the IAM rules somewhat. But, for me, there's an even more important guide - which is to make sure you take the grip in good time before making the gear change.
If you watch some of the best racing drivers (before the advent of paddle shifts!), they do just this. A great example is Andy Wallace in the McLaren F1 in practice for Le Mans - see the link below:
[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc[/url]
(It's about 4 minutes, and has several good shots of his gearchanging, which is sublime.)
Since being taught to do so, I find this really helps make sure a) I have a firm grip and b) that I am clear about the shift movement I am about to make. I am not suggesting one's hand is on the gearshift for a long time before the change, but just that there is good time for shift to be well prepared for.
I have sat next to many drivers who grab at the gearshift a fraction too late, and as a result slightly mis-time their change. Or worse still, fluff the change. This is exacerbated if they also take a weak grip.
One very obvious point is that the "thumb up / down" rule reverses for LHD cars.
Kind regards
Steve
Don said:
agent006 said:
I once read that if you use an auto you will be expected to use its control facilities and not just bung it in drive and forget about it. True?
If appropriate - yes. For example - it may be appropriate to prevent the gearbox from changing up during a sequence of bends and then putting it back into drive once on the straight. I'm not an auto specialist, mind.
victormeldrew said:
Don said:
agent006 said:
I once read that if you use an auto you will be expected to use its control facilities and not just bung it in drive and forget about it. True?
If appropriate - yes. For example - it may be appropriate to prevent the gearbox from changing up during a sequence of bends and then putting it back into drive once on the straight. I'm not an auto specialist, mind.
The Vauxhall "tip" will also ignore you if you ask it to do something dumb. As I understand it the Audi will even detect whether or not you are cornering and avoids gearchanging under cornering if possible. Great systems - especially the Audi. The Porsche "tip" system is by repute excellent as well.
So I would say you may get some advantage pre-empting what the system would do itself by manually interceding with the "tip" controls. You may not. If you always drive the car to the best advantage - whether that is taking over or whether that is leaving it to its own devices this will be considered "good" for the purposes of the Advanced Test.
More important is that you are intimately familiar with your car and CAN use it to best advantage...
Just though I would add my views.
I passed IAM test at the age of 19 and like you Sam started early, keen to get into good habits. Whilst I had heard the mocking comments of The IAM I was very open minded.
At the end of the corse I came to a few conclusions. Whilst most points are valid others arn't and like everything in life everybody has there own conclusions. I found it best to listen to all arguments and make sure that what ever I decided to go with I fully understood and agreed with.
Whilst the IAM is good value for money you must always consider it as a factor within the organisation, which I always felt was agreat shame.
Finaly, don't kid yourself into thinking that ego plays no part in the system, everyone around you is still human, and you will find anyone who tries to arguee otherwise has alot of sticker on their car if you get my drift.
All in all it was a worth while experience and I recomend it to all my friends.
Hope this helps to give some perspective.
I passed IAM test at the age of 19 and like you Sam started early, keen to get into good habits. Whilst I had heard the mocking comments of The IAM I was very open minded.
At the end of the corse I came to a few conclusions. Whilst most points are valid others arn't and like everything in life everybody has there own conclusions. I found it best to listen to all arguments and make sure that what ever I decided to go with I fully understood and agreed with.
Whilst the IAM is good value for money you must always consider it as a factor within the organisation, which I always felt was agreat shame.
Finaly, don't kid yourself into thinking that ego plays no part in the system, everyone around you is still human, and you will find anyone who tries to arguee otherwise has alot of sticker on their car if you get my drift.
All in all it was a worth while experience and I recomend it to all my friends.
Hope this helps to give some perspective.
Just though I would add my views.
I passed IAM test at the age of 19 and like you Sam started early, keen to get into good habits. Whilst I had heard the mocking comments of The IAM I was very open minded.
At the end of the corse I came to a few conclusions. Whilst most points are valid others arn't and like everything in life everybody has there own conclusions. I found it best to listen to all arguments and make sure that what ever I decided to go with I fully understood and agreed with.
Whilst the IAM is good value for money you must always consider it as a factor within the organisation, which I always felt was agreat shame.
Finaly, don't kid yourself into thinking that ego plays no part in the system, everyone around you is still human, and you will find anyone who tries to arguee otherwise has alot of sticker on their car if you get my drift.
All in all it was a worth while experience and I recomend it to all my friends.
Hope this helps to give some perspective.
I passed IAM test at the age of 19 and like you Sam started early, keen to get into good habits. Whilst I had heard the mocking comments of The IAM I was very open minded.
At the end of the corse I came to a few conclusions. Whilst most points are valid others arn't and like everything in life everybody has there own conclusions. I found it best to listen to all arguments and make sure that what ever I decided to go with I fully understood and agreed with.
Whilst the IAM is good value for money you must always consider it as a factor within the organisation, which I always felt was agreat shame.
Finaly, don't kid yourself into thinking that ego plays no part in the system, everyone around you is still human, and you will find anyone who tries to arguee otherwise has alot of sticker on their car if you get my drift.
All in all it was a worth while experience and I recomend it to all my friends.
Hope this helps to give some perspective.
Many thanks for those replies. I was 99% certain that breaking the speed limit is a no-no. It was just the references I've seen to IAM roadcraft being related to the police system. The latter needing to break the speed limit when attending a serious inicident.
I guess, until I sign up for training, the only issue I would be concerned of would be exceeding the speed limit 'accidentally' whilst overtaking on a single carriageway? But then I guess that's all down to assessing first if an overtake will be both safe and legal?
The Vauxhall "tip" will also ignore you if you ask it to do something dumb. As I understand it the Audi will even detect whether or not you are cornering and avoids gearchanging under cornering if possible. Great systems - especially the Audi. The Porsche "tip" system is by repute excellent as well.
So I would say you may get some advantage pre-empting what the system would do itself by manually interceding with the "tip" controls. You may not. If you always drive the car to the best advantage - whether that is taking over or whether that is leaving it to its own devices this will be considered "good" for the purposes of the Advanced Test.
More important is that you are intimately familiar with your car and CAN use it to best advantage...
That's good news about the use of an auto. Mine is the Porsche system and it is indeed excellent IMO. I use the manual mode for 95% of my driving because I feel it gives me the most control of the car and is the most satisfying. I still feel that it should be me deciding the correct gear for a corner. As an aside, because the tip control is on the steering wheel, it is almost impossible to change gear while cornering. Evidence enough that Porsche are telling me that "changing a gear during a corner is not a safe or good thing to do". They are of course, right!
It will not do anything dumb that you ask it to do, like changing down while accelerating. But it will do things like automatically drop into a low gear when you come to a stop. Which is a nice (and necessary) touch. You're also right that when in 'drive' it won't change up or down while cornering or if it detects loss of grip.
I guess, until I sign up for training, the only issue I would be concerned of would be exceeding the speed limit 'accidentally' whilst overtaking on a single carriageway? But then I guess that's all down to assessing first if an overtake will be both safe and legal?
Don said:
The Vauxhall "tip" will also ignore you if you ask it to do something dumb. As I understand it the Audi will even detect whether or not you are cornering and avoids gearchanging under cornering if possible. Great systems - especially the Audi. The Porsche "tip" system is by repute excellent as well.
So I would say you may get some advantage pre-empting what the system would do itself by manually interceding with the "tip" controls. You may not. If you always drive the car to the best advantage - whether that is taking over or whether that is leaving it to its own devices this will be considered "good" for the purposes of the Advanced Test.
More important is that you are intimately familiar with your car and CAN use it to best advantage...
That's good news about the use of an auto. Mine is the Porsche system and it is indeed excellent IMO. I use the manual mode for 95% of my driving because I feel it gives me the most control of the car and is the most satisfying. I still feel that it should be me deciding the correct gear for a corner. As an aside, because the tip control is on the steering wheel, it is almost impossible to change gear while cornering. Evidence enough that Porsche are telling me that "changing a gear during a corner is not a safe or good thing to do". They are of course, right!
It will not do anything dumb that you ask it to do, like changing down while accelerating. But it will do things like automatically drop into a low gear when you come to a stop. Which is a nice (and necessary) touch. You're also right that when in 'drive' it won't change up or down while cornering or if it detects loss of grip.
Edited by boxsey on Wednesday 17th January 09:10
SamHH said:
Good spot. That is very useful.
I'm curious about this "thumb-up thumb-down" technique. How does it work exactly?
I checked my technique this morning, having had my curiousity piqued by this thread. I can't help thinking either the technique is misnamed, or its rooted in some good sense that is outmoded.
On the Toyota I was driving this morning I found myself naturally using a thumb down grip (actually more of a pinky up, but same difference) for 1st/2nd, a grip much as Peter describes above for 3rd/4th (plam of hand to push into third, fingertips to pull back into 4th, relaxed grip on lever in both cases), and a thumb up "rifle bolt" grip for fifth. Because 3rd/4th are on the detent any sideways pressure on the lever is to be avoided, so both thumb up and thumb down are inappropriate.
The appropriate grip for most gears will depend on the gate layout and so changes from car to car - 2nd in the Toyota I was driving today (12345R) would be thumb down, but in my wifes Audi A2 it would be neutral as its R12345.
I checked my technique this morning, having had my curiousity piqued by this thread. I can't help thinking either the technique is misnamed, or its rooted in some good sense that is outmoded.
On the Toyota I was driving this morning I found myself naturally using a thumb down grip (actually more of a pinky up, but same difference) for 1st/2nd, a grip much as Peter describes above for 3rd/4th (plam of hand to push into third, fingertips to pull back into 4th, relaxed grip on lever in both cases), and a thumb up "rifle bolt" grip for fifth. Because 3rd/4th are on the detent any sideways pressure on the lever is to be avoided, so both thumb up and thumb down are inappropriate.
The appropriate grip for most gears will depend on the gate layout and so changes from car to car - 2nd in the Toyota I was driving today (12345R) would be thumb down, but in my wifes Audi A2 it would be neutral as its R12345.
victormeldrew said:
I'm curious about this "thumb-up thumb-down" technique. How does it work exactly?
I checked my technique this morning, having had my curiousity piqued by this thread. I can't help thinking either the technique is misnamed, or its rooted in some good sense that is outmoded.
I checked my technique this morning, having had my curiousity piqued by this thread. I can't help thinking either the technique is misnamed, or its rooted in some good sense that is outmoded.
Another thread about this technique has been started:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=342626&f=154&h=0
victormeldrew said:
On the Toyota I was driving this morning I found myself naturally using a thumb down grip (actually more of a pinky up, but same difference) for 1st/2nd, a grip much as Peter describes above for 3rd/4th (plam of hand to push into third, fingertips to pull back into 4th, relaxed grip on lever in both cases), and a thumb up "rifle bolt" grip for fifth. Because 3rd/4th are on the detent any sideways pressure on the lever is to be avoided, so both thumb up and thumb down are inappropriate.
I wouldn't describe thumb-up as inappropriate for changes to gears in the neutral plane (3rd and 4th in most cars). With thumb-down your arm does have a natural tendency to push to the left; I've found that with a thumb down grip it very difficult to select a gear other than one to the left of neutral (1st and 2nd in my car). With thumb up however, I've found that it's quite possible to select gears on the neutral plane and gears to the left and right of the neutral plane. Your arm doesn't have a natural tendency to push to the right.
victormeldrew said:
The appropriate grip for most gears will depend on the gate layout and so changes from car to car - 2nd in the Toyota I was driving today (12345R) would be thumb down, but in my wifes Audi A2 it would be neutral as its R12345.
Are you saying that in the A2 1st is on a dog leg and second is on the neutral plane?
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