My IAM experience
Discussion
Long post but the short version is that I had three more observed drives and passed my test this morning.
On all three drives we were out for slightly longer than the first two: an hour and twenty instead of an hour. They all went quite well so I won't bore you with the details but the only criticism was for my steering, specifically for making too many movements of my hands on the wheel. My observer said that it should only be necessary to do one pull and one push in all but the tightest bends. I feel that this just doesn't give enough steering to get round lots of corners. Maybe because my car doesn't have power steering it has a higher ratio steering rack than she's used to. Whilst I know my steering isn't great I feel that things like my control of the brake and clutch pedals warrant more criticism.
She lent me a DVD of someone from the Aberdeen IAM group doing a drive. That was pretty dull. She also lent me a Roadcraft video; the one with Met police officers doing their "response driver" course. It didn't show me anything I didn't know already but it was interesting to watch nevertheless.
After my fourth drive my observer recommended I apply for the test. When I met the examiner this morning he told me that I could do five or ten minutes of commentary if I wished. He said that he didn't mind whether I did it and that there is no benefit to doing it but the very fact that he mentioned it suggested it's something that might help. Even so, I decided not to becuase I hadn't practised commentary much and when I had I found it difficult to mention everything I was seeing and keep my observation up.
The wind very strong and on the dual-carriageway I was slowed down to 60 for quite a while; my car just doesn't have to power to keep to 70 at times. Thankfully the examiner must have accounted for this in his decision. The two manoeuvres - reversing round a corner and turning in the road - went OK. Whilst I was driving my seatbelt came undone. I thought he'd fail me for this but in the end it wasn't even mentioned. The only other mistakes I noticed were minor: slightly dodgy gear-shift, going a bit wide round a (one way) hairpin.
In the debrief I was told I'd done a decent drive but there were some criticisms. Firstly, on two occasions I went three abreast with parked cars on my left and an oncoming lorry on my right. He said I shouldn't have done this because there was no "safety margin". Fair enough, I made a poor judgement in the compromise between safety and "making progress". Secondly, he said my positioning could have been more exaggerated, especially on left hand bends. Thirdly, I could have had better observation of manhole covers and potholes and therefore been able to avoid them with ease. I was noticing manhole covers and potholes, but I wasn't avoiding them because I didn't want the examiner to think I was moving across the road too much. He didn't mention my steering but when asked he said that it isn't the best he'd seen but he didn't seem to feel it is a major problem.
Naturally, I'm very pleased to have passed but there's a bit of a feeling of anti-climax. Whilst I've learned how to apply the methods of Roadcraft to my driving (although I've still got a long way to go with this), I don't feel that my driving is noticeably better than before I did the course. There are lots of things I want to improve. The examiner suggested I should just keep practising. I asked my observer about the special assessment. She said that it is designed for people who have been driving for a long time and who just want a general idea of what their ability is.
I'd love to do some training with a professional instructor like those used by the High Performance Club, but they seem rather expensive and anyway I live hundreds of miles away from the all ones I've seen.
It'd also be nice to have a demonstration from a really good advanced driver. My observer gave me a demo and no disrespect to her because she was good, way better than me, but she didn't "wow" me.
On all three drives we were out for slightly longer than the first two: an hour and twenty instead of an hour. They all went quite well so I won't bore you with the details but the only criticism was for my steering, specifically for making too many movements of my hands on the wheel. My observer said that it should only be necessary to do one pull and one push in all but the tightest bends. I feel that this just doesn't give enough steering to get round lots of corners. Maybe because my car doesn't have power steering it has a higher ratio steering rack than she's used to. Whilst I know my steering isn't great I feel that things like my control of the brake and clutch pedals warrant more criticism.
She lent me a DVD of someone from the Aberdeen IAM group doing a drive. That was pretty dull. She also lent me a Roadcraft video; the one with Met police officers doing their "response driver" course. It didn't show me anything I didn't know already but it was interesting to watch nevertheless.
After my fourth drive my observer recommended I apply for the test. When I met the examiner this morning he told me that I could do five or ten minutes of commentary if I wished. He said that he didn't mind whether I did it and that there is no benefit to doing it but the very fact that he mentioned it suggested it's something that might help. Even so, I decided not to becuase I hadn't practised commentary much and when I had I found it difficult to mention everything I was seeing and keep my observation up.
The wind very strong and on the dual-carriageway I was slowed down to 60 for quite a while; my car just doesn't have to power to keep to 70 at times. Thankfully the examiner must have accounted for this in his decision. The two manoeuvres - reversing round a corner and turning in the road - went OK. Whilst I was driving my seatbelt came undone. I thought he'd fail me for this but in the end it wasn't even mentioned. The only other mistakes I noticed were minor: slightly dodgy gear-shift, going a bit wide round a (one way) hairpin.
In the debrief I was told I'd done a decent drive but there were some criticisms. Firstly, on two occasions I went three abreast with parked cars on my left and an oncoming lorry on my right. He said I shouldn't have done this because there was no "safety margin". Fair enough, I made a poor judgement in the compromise between safety and "making progress". Secondly, he said my positioning could have been more exaggerated, especially on left hand bends. Thirdly, I could have had better observation of manhole covers and potholes and therefore been able to avoid them with ease. I was noticing manhole covers and potholes, but I wasn't avoiding them because I didn't want the examiner to think I was moving across the road too much. He didn't mention my steering but when asked he said that it isn't the best he'd seen but he didn't seem to feel it is a major problem.
Naturally, I'm very pleased to have passed but there's a bit of a feeling of anti-climax. Whilst I've learned how to apply the methods of Roadcraft to my driving (although I've still got a long way to go with this), I don't feel that my driving is noticeably better than before I did the course. There are lots of things I want to improve. The examiner suggested I should just keep practising. I asked my observer about the special assessment. She said that it is designed for people who have been driving for a long time and who just want a general idea of what their ability is.
I'd love to do some training with a professional instructor like those used by the High Performance Club, but they seem rather expensive and anyway I live hundreds of miles away from the all ones I've seen.
It'd also be nice to have a demonstration from a really good advanced driver. My observer gave me a demo and no disrespect to her because she was good, way better than me, but she didn't "wow" me.
Well done Sam ...
3 abreast - yep, sometimes difficult to avoid, and depending on oncoming vehicles positioning you can be ok to "trickle" through, else on some roads you'd never move. Best avoided if possible, and unless you've got a constant stream of traffic approaching, you could probably wait.
Steering, can you for small bends, used fixed input - stick you mitts at quater to three and basicall leave them there - I only use this for bends requiring at most 1/8 turn (ish).
Further training - try Bespoke (bespokedrivertraining.co.uk) - well worth the effort to get to (75 miles from me).
Martin
3 abreast - yep, sometimes difficult to avoid, and depending on oncoming vehicles positioning you can be ok to "trickle" through, else on some roads you'd never move. Best avoided if possible, and unless you've got a constant stream of traffic approaching, you could probably wait.
Steering, can you for small bends, used fixed input - stick you mitts at quater to three and basicall leave them there - I only use this for bends requiring at most 1/8 turn (ish).
Further training - try Bespoke (bespokedrivertraining.co.uk) - well worth the effort to get to (75 miles from me).
Martin
I know what you mean SamHH in that perhaps you were expecting more obvious 'skill' in how she was controlling the car and using the road to make progress. The observation and perhaps good overtaking aspects when using Roadcraft become more obvious when you are using them to make very 'good' progress instead of pootling about at the speed limit!
To do my standard response course in the Police I did 120 hours of systemised roadcraft driving and by the end of the course my driving technique was unrecognisable from before the course. Although in respect of the training I do think the circumstances of the training enviroment (Plain car, No speed limit in NSL and a level of progress suggesting your hair was on fire) doesn't replicate anything I did after the course properly. Yes I do use the overtake techniques with the blue lights on but it is several degrees easier since all the cars are getting out the way, well, most of the time.
I would recommend as much training as possible, although I would suggest 120 hours as minimal it will expensive outside joining up for Queen and country! Don't expect a civvy to be using the more aggressive, read overtaking, forms of the driving as I am sure the IAM would not recommend doing 100 mph down narrow country lanes to make progress. I can only assure you that being sat next to an advanced driver, one class up from me, in a very powerful car is a real eye opener.
To do my standard response course in the Police I did 120 hours of systemised roadcraft driving and by the end of the course my driving technique was unrecognisable from before the course. Although in respect of the training I do think the circumstances of the training enviroment (Plain car, No speed limit in NSL and a level of progress suggesting your hair was on fire) doesn't replicate anything I did after the course properly. Yes I do use the overtake techniques with the blue lights on but it is several degrees easier since all the cars are getting out the way, well, most of the time.
I would recommend as much training as possible, although I would suggest 120 hours as minimal it will expensive outside joining up for Queen and country! Don't expect a civvy to be using the more aggressive, read overtaking, forms of the driving as I am sure the IAM would not recommend doing 100 mph down narrow country lanes to make progress. I can only assure you that being sat next to an advanced driver, one class up from me, in a very powerful car is a real eye opener.
SamHH
Congratulations on passing the test.
I have tried to PM you, but that function seems disabled. If you want to PM me, I was going to suggest you might like to have a drive with an HPC member - we're dotted all around the country, and most are passionate about advanced driving. I am confident I could get something set up and it would give you a chance to discuss your next steps with someone who, like you, wants more!
Kind regards
Steve
Congratulations on passing the test.
I have tried to PM you, but that function seems disabled. If you want to PM me, I was going to suggest you might like to have a drive with an HPC member - we're dotted all around the country, and most are passionate about advanced driving. I am confident I could get something set up and it would give you a chance to discuss your next steps with someone who, like you, wants more!
Kind regards
Steve
Congratulations SamHH.
Now you have to keep practicing and keep working on impoving your drive. More will come with practice and experience. importantly, you seem to have grasped the difficult point of being self-critical of your own driving. It is somthing that will allow you to identify any areas where you can improve your technique and skills.
Consider joining the local group to help them and get more input. You may also consider the ROSPA test as mentioned elsewhere.
Now you have to keep practicing and keep working on impoving your drive. More will come with practice and experience. importantly, you seem to have grasped the difficult point of being self-critical of your own driving. It is somthing that will allow you to identify any areas where you can improve your technique and skills.
Consider joining the local group to help them and get more input. You may also consider the ROSPA test as mentioned elsewhere.
Very interesting reading.
When I passed my test at 17 my Dad sent me for some IAM tuition before being let loose in his fairly powerful RWD car, a wise man!!
Overall, I felt that particularly for a new driver, the levels of observation and techniques have been excellent over the years, however I stopped going when I felt some of the practices where downright dangerous. Here are a few examples, I don't know if these are still practised :-
1. When driving down a Country Lane, full of bends, and slowing to a virtual standstill, before turning right from the main road to a side road, as the view of oncoming traffic was hard to see round a bend, I was always told I musn't indicate right if there was nobody there to benefit from the signal, yet this was a lane famous for powerful motorbikes being riden very fast down here, and because you are not constantly looking in your mirror, and had just come round a bend, there was always the possibility of a bike appearing very quickly, seeing you stationary and moving to overtake before you put the indicator on. I never felt happy at all with this.
2. As mentioned above, when stopped in a filter lane turning right, I was told not to indicate even if I was the first car and I could see a young child waiting to cross with his bike looking at me. Explain a filter lane to a young child !!
3. When travelling down a main road and turning left, I had to brake to the very low speed, then take my foot off the brake, press the clutch, change gear and then turn the corner. For no obvious benefit, I end up leaving myself in a faster flow of traffic on a main road with no brake lights showing, leaving myself in a much higher risk position for much longer than necessary.
If any of the above has changed, or anybody can explain further I'd be very happy, as I had thought about going back to do the test, but these always put me off. It was earlyish 90's when I last did it, but the chan ehas recently come up to do it with work.
Thanks,
Scott.
stefan1 said:
SamHH
Congratulations on passing the test.
I have tried to PM you, but that function seems disabled. If you want to PM me, I was going to suggest you might like to have a drive with an HPC member - we're dotted all around the country, and most are passionate about advanced driving. I am confident I could get something set up and it would give you a chance to discuss your next steps with someone who, like you, wants more!
Kind regards
Steve
Congratulations on passing the test.
I have tried to PM you, but that function seems disabled. If you want to PM me, I was going to suggest you might like to have a drive with an HPC member - we're dotted all around the country, and most are passionate about advanced driving. I am confident I could get something set up and it would give you a chance to discuss your next steps with someone who, like you, wants more!
Kind regards
Steve
Thanks for the congratulations. My private e-mail function was disabled but I've now enabled it and sent a message to you.
mph999 said:
Steering, can you for small bends, used fixed input - stick you mitts at quater to three and basicall leave them there - I only use this for bends requiring at most 1/8 turn (ish).
Yes, I keep my hands in a fixed position for inputs that require very little movement. I tended not to do this when being observed and in the IAM test because my observer frowned on it.
I feel that it's the large inputs rather than the small ones that a problem for me. I tend to struggle where a lot of lock has to be removed very quickly, typically in tight, low-speed corners. I'm not able to do it in a smooth controlled manner.
renny said:
Consider joining the local group to help them and get more input. You may also consider the ROSPA test as mentioned elsewhere.
I'm automatically a member of the local group by doing the test. I've been asked if I'd be interested in becoming an observer. I'm not going to do it for now, partly because I'm not sure I agree with everything the IAM teaches. More importantly though, I don't feel my driving is good enough to allow me to mentor other people. I've not had the necessary experience.
Re. ROSPA, I understand that it is identical to the IAM course except that there is a grading system. I know I'm not good enough to get a 'Gold' grade so it doesn't appeal, at least not for now.
Scott - I believe the two practices you are referring to are not signalling when no-one will benefit and brake gear separation.
I was taught that it is acceptable to signal when no-one will benefit when you begin signalling but someone might benefit at a later point. This could be for example where you are approaching a T-junction with no-one behind or in front of you but you suspect that there may be traffic on the main road that could benefit from a signal. If no-one does benefit, then no harm is done (assuming no-one was misled).
I agree that there are some circumstances where it is easier and better to signal in anticipation of someone benefiting rather that waiting until the moment when they definitely will benefit. The first example you give is probably such a scenario.
In fact, this issue was brought up by the examiner after my test.
In the second example you give, you certainly would signal because there is someone who obviously will benefit.
Regarding brake gear separation, it is still part of Roadcraft and is still taught by the IAM. However, overlapping is not frowned upon as much as I understand it used to be. I won't go into it in detail (we could and probably have had whole threads about it) but suffice to say that Roadcraft says there are some situations where it is acceptable or even preferable to overlap braking and gearchanging. The basic idea though is that you separate your braking and gearchanging unless there is a reason not to.
Even if you find yourself disagreeing with some of the things IAM teaches, you might still decide that it's worth doing and then switching back to your own methods after you pass. You may pick up some good things in the process.
I was taught that it is acceptable to signal when no-one will benefit when you begin signalling but someone might benefit at a later point. This could be for example where you are approaching a T-junction with no-one behind or in front of you but you suspect that there may be traffic on the main road that could benefit from a signal. If no-one does benefit, then no harm is done (assuming no-one was misled).
I agree that there are some circumstances where it is easier and better to signal in anticipation of someone benefiting rather that waiting until the moment when they definitely will benefit. The first example you give is probably such a scenario.
In fact, this issue was brought up by the examiner after my test.
In the second example you give, you certainly would signal because there is someone who obviously will benefit.
Regarding brake gear separation, it is still part of Roadcraft and is still taught by the IAM. However, overlapping is not frowned upon as much as I understand it used to be. I won't go into it in detail (we could and probably have had whole threads about it) but suffice to say that Roadcraft says there are some situations where it is acceptable or even preferable to overlap braking and gearchanging. The basic idea though is that you separate your braking and gearchanging unless there is a reason not to.
Even if you find yourself disagreeing with some of the things IAM teaches, you might still decide that it's worth doing and then switching back to your own methods after you pass. You may pick up some good things in the process.
Edited by SamHH on Monday 22 January 23:11
Scott - if you want to see a really detailed discussion on signalling, see this:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=18&f=154&t=258071&h=0&hw=signal
Be warned, you might lose the will to live.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=18&f=154&t=258071&h=0&hw=signal
Be warned, you might lose the will to live.
Thanks Sam, that was a very good answer. It makes sense, and perhaps it all either wasn't explained to me well, or I didn't pick it up as intended. I always signal when turning right, whether I think anyone will benefit or not, because it's better to err on the side of caution, and assume someone will benefit I believe.
The no overlapping was something I never felt happy with either. With todays advanced ABS etc I can't see the point.
I think you are correct, better to perhaps complete the course, take the good things and adapt it to what you believe is correct yourself.
Thanks,
Scott.
scottie - nw said:
The no overlapping was something I never felt happy with either. With todays advanced ABS etc I can't see the point.
Thanks,
Scott.
The by product is that you are not carrying too much speed into hazards. It creates a big safety margin by forcing you to create time & space for an unrushed gear change.
Sam,
your reply was what I was going to type.
Another useful site with more discussions on Advanced Driving can be found at:
www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb/index.php
your reply was what I was going to type.
Another useful site with more discussions on Advanced Driving can be found at:
www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb/index.php
scottie - nw said:
Thanks Sam, that was a very good answer. It makes sense, and perhaps it all either wasn't explained to me well, or I didn't pick it up as intended. I always signal when turning right, whether I think anyone will benefit or not, because it's better to err on the side of caution, and assume someone will benefit I believe.
The no overlapping was something I never felt happy with either. With todays advanced ABS etc I can't see the point.
I think you are correct, better to perhaps complete the course, take the good things and adapt it to what you believe is correct yourself.
Thanks,
Scott.
Scott
Try and avoid always & never! A good advanced driver will think about what actions & decisions they make. To always do somethink like signaling may mean you are not fully aware of whats going on around you! (Long flat road, 3am, no aproaching traffic, no following trafic? You want to turn right! Indicate or not?)
Having good ABS or not should have nothing to do with overlaping. The circumstances of a well planed manouver will dictate if an overlap is needed, not if your car has ABS.
Good luck with the driving and try and take advice from all directions. As you say, some may be discarded and some taken on board. Don't just discard something because it may be difficult, it may still be correct.
Paul.B
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