Vote for harder driving tests
Discussion
No. The current test is already pretty difficult for a new driver, and someone who can pass it is safe to continue practising on their own. New drivers driving in the way they had to to pass their test do not have fatal accidents. There are better things to do to improve the safety of young drivers:
Compulsory 'Responsible Road Use' lessons in school, seeking to cultivate awareness of the dangers and a safety culture several years before children start to drive.
More positive PR for good driving
More traffic police out on the roads, with vigorous action to take unlicensed drivers off the roads
Make Pass Plus compulsory within 6 months of passing, and a test to Advanced Level compulsory within 2 years (this is partly to address the all-important attitude, trying to make new drivers aware of the need to keep up their driving standard after passing)
Compulsory 'Responsible Road Use' lessons in school, seeking to cultivate awareness of the dangers and a safety culture several years before children start to drive.
More positive PR for good driving
More traffic police out on the roads, with vigorous action to take unlicensed drivers off the roads
Make Pass Plus compulsory within 6 months of passing, and a test to Advanced Level compulsory within 2 years (this is partly to address the all-important attitude, trying to make new drivers aware of the need to keep up their driving standard after passing)
DonOnTheBeed said:
I'm all for making the driving test harder - but don't for a moment think this will reduce road accidents. Young men are determined folk and will simply step up to the more difficult challenge. Its more likely that other groups will be unable to pass!
Technical skills aren't really the problem. Its attitude to road safety. We really need to terrify young people with the consequences of driving like loons - long before they ever get behind the wheel.
I agree. Sure - there are some people that are genuinely a bit crap at driving. agent006 said:
Make the RoSPA test the standard driving test, with power to weight ratio restrictions based on the grade achieved. It would solve the safety, congestion and pollution problems in one easy step. The current test is laughably easy.
Now that ... is a good idea ...
My dad was chatting to a police instructor (currently serving, if it makes a difference) a few months ago, who had the view that everyone should undergo some sort of advanced training.
Martin
sclayto2 said:
Rather than making the test tougher, how about compulsory retests, especially as people get much older?
Doesn't get at the group that's having the prangs. Statistically young men in the 17-25 bracket are heavily overrepresented in both fatal and other accidents. This is a fact. Not liking it doesn't make it untrue. What's odd is that they are probably (this is an assertion not a fact) one of the more skilled groups of drivers. If you agree with that assertion then you have to conclude its not technical skills that are the problem - its something else. I'd point the finger at a bad attitude towards risk assessment - and that the cure is to scare them shitless somehow.
Easiest thing to do is raise the driving age to 25 - not that I'd suggest that for a moment. So we've got to do something else. But technical skills in the driving test won't work.
School curriculum. Road safety. Compulsory. Very scary indeed. Might just work...
sclayto2 said:
Rather than making the test tougher, how about compulsory retests, especially as people get much older?
The older people aren't the problem. Its the young males, who have the skills and reactions to pass possibly any test you throw at them, and then through overconfidence and inexperience have a very high accident rate. Even the over 80's are far safer than the under 25's.
(For all sorts of reasons, but they're still not crashing).
Of course, the motorcyle test is about to get substantially harder:
The Third EC Driving Licence Directive
www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=40
What a shame that the car test isn't getting upgraded too. This seems most unfair, especially when you consider how many bike accidents are caused by car drivers 'looking but not seeing' and pulling out of junctions on bikers
It's a shame the EU failed to upgrade the car test whilst at the same time. What a wasted opportunity!
The Third EC Driving Licence Directive
www.dsa.gov.uk/Category.asp?cat=40
What a shame that the car test isn't getting upgraded too. This seems most unfair, especially when you consider how many bike accidents are caused by car drivers 'looking but not seeing' and pulling out of junctions on bikers
It's a shame the EU failed to upgrade the car test whilst at the same time. What a wasted opportunity!
Rick448 said:
Its attitude that needs changing not skill levels. IMHO of course.
I agree, I'm a young male driver, 18 and I have no desire to drive round like an idiot and endager other people, but sadly a lot of my friends don't have the same attitude. I've been in cars with numerous people whilst using excessive speed in built up areas, overtaking dangerously etc.
I know of at least 5 people around my area crashing a car within their first year of driving.
Most of the time, it is just purely showing off to others. Maybe some sort of passenger limit could be setup on offending drivers. Also rewarding people for taking advanced driving courses may work.
I really like the idea of classes of liscenses, id like to see more than P/W ratio maybe also just a mass in general. I like the European much harder, more expensive tests that are, in response, more respected. Look at the autobahn 's accident frequency and any US highway, for example.
How we need some training in the use of Motorways and Dual Carriageways. Luckily I don't have to use either on a regular basis.
It was my "pleasure" to use some of our meagre mileage of both over the Festive Season.
Lane one so often empty apart from me, however, I then ran the risk of being accused of undertaking, if I then put my car forward of those in lane two, serenely travelling oblivious of all around.
Then, why when I was in lane three or four and travelling at the pace of that lane but leaving a two second gap, more in the rain, was there so often another vehicle only some twenty feet (seven metres) behind me?
A Motorway driving test is needed, before anyone is allowed on them.
It was my "pleasure" to use some of our meagre mileage of both over the Festive Season.
Lane one so often empty apart from me, however, I then ran the risk of being accused of undertaking, if I then put my car forward of those in lane two, serenely travelling oblivious of all around.
Then, why when I was in lane three or four and travelling at the pace of that lane but leaving a two second gap, more in the rain, was there so often another vehicle only some twenty feet (seven metres) behind me?
A Motorway driving test is needed, before anyone is allowed on them.
WhoseGeneration said:
A Motorway driving test is needed, before anyone is allowed on them.
waremark said:
Bad motorway driving is not due to the drivers never having learned how it should be done.
Almost invariably the root of bad motorway driving is poor lane discipline, a disease that is noticeably absent in France and Germany. Even most instances of 'tailgating' and especially 'undertaking' could be attributed to the 'other' driver being in the wrong lane. I think there should be a motorway driving test.
Those who pass a test rarely appreciate the level of driving capability they then possess. Often it is the pupil who passes with only one or two faults ("I must be a great driver"
who has an accident early in their driving career. Generally, the style/quality of drive that enables a pass rarely can be ramped up to the speeds that the new (generally male) driver thinks is more appropriate to their new driving status.
Instructors (if the pupil is professionally taught) seldom demonstrate a high calibre drive to their students to demonstrate just what there is to learn about driving.
When we do either passplus, advanced or even track driving courses, without any attempt to lecture, we show a drive that is, dare I say, skillful. This then lays the scene for what there is to learn, without in any way appearing know-it-all or patronising. After all, no-one who has been learning a guitar for 12 weeks should expect to be Jimi Hendrix.
Professional instructors spend an inordinate amount of time giving instruction of maneouvres. This should be validated by instructors-even if it means addressing the standard of current instruction. More time needs to be spent on instructing and assessing driving which incurs greater risk. It is possible for a student to undergo professional instruction where they never have to drive a testing "A" road let alone a national speedlimit dual carriageway; and that's without considering Motorways. What a waste of a resource!
Tests should be valid for one year, during which the student must take a motorway/passplus unit that then validates their licence. Failure to do this would then require a retest. This would obviate the need for test centres to be near motorways. Simple really
Quite a few of our clients who have taken a passplus session with us then go on to do a trackday session. Without fail every single one has massively underestimated the level of skill needed to drive fast, around a circuit. They suddenly realise that they're not MS and that they still have so much to learn from the old git next to them. I wish I could take more new drivers on a circuit day - the accident statistics could change markedly.
The best bit is the drive away from circuit. This is when they realise that it's style/quality you practise/impress with on the road, and keep the speed for the circuit.
MC
who has an accident early in their driving career. Generally, the style/quality of drive that enables a pass rarely can be ramped up to the speeds that the new (generally male) driver thinks is more appropriate to their new driving status. Instructors (if the pupil is professionally taught) seldom demonstrate a high calibre drive to their students to demonstrate just what there is to learn about driving.
When we do either passplus, advanced or even track driving courses, without any attempt to lecture, we show a drive that is, dare I say, skillful. This then lays the scene for what there is to learn, without in any way appearing know-it-all or patronising. After all, no-one who has been learning a guitar for 12 weeks should expect to be Jimi Hendrix.
Professional instructors spend an inordinate amount of time giving instruction of maneouvres. This should be validated by instructors-even if it means addressing the standard of current instruction. More time needs to be spent on instructing and assessing driving which incurs greater risk. It is possible for a student to undergo professional instruction where they never have to drive a testing "A" road let alone a national speedlimit dual carriageway; and that's without considering Motorways. What a waste of a resource!
Tests should be valid for one year, during which the student must take a motorway/passplus unit that then validates their licence. Failure to do this would then require a retest. This would obviate the need for test centres to be near motorways. Simple really
Quite a few of our clients who have taken a passplus session with us then go on to do a trackday session. Without fail every single one has massively underestimated the level of skill needed to drive fast, around a circuit. They suddenly realise that they're not MS and that they still have so much to learn from the old git next to them. I wish I could take more new drivers on a circuit day - the accident statistics could change markedly.
The best bit is the drive away from circuit. This is when they realise that it's style/quality you practise/impress with on the road, and keep the speed for the circuit.
MC
instructormike said:
Without fail every single one has massively underestimated the level of skill needed to drive fast, around a circuit. They suddenly realise that they're not MS and that they still have so much to learn from the old git next to them. I wish I could take more new drivers on a circuit day - the accident statistics could change markedly.
MC
MC
Is there not a danger in allowing youngsters access to circuit facilities early on in their driving career, that they then seek to hone their newly acquired skills on the public road?
I vote against.
I don't care if the driving test is harder or easier. In fact, I think it's a pretty good example of the moronic way things are going that this has been suggested. A change to something as important as the driving test, should be considered on the basis of it's purpose.
It seems to me that the purpose of the driving test is to assess competence.
By this suggestion you could have the driving test be so hard that you have to do all of that mad handbrake parking, that nobody can do. You know the stuff wher you throw a mini at a parking space barely big enough to contain the car. At the appropriate instant you apply the handbrake, the car does a 90 degree spin, and stops neatly at a uniform distance from the kerb. That would be hard.
Personally I think the test should accurately assess the competence of drivers. If it needs to change, in order to achieve that, then it should. To make it harder for the sake of it, is as dumb as everthing else that's going wrong in this crappy country.
I don't care if the driving test is harder or easier. In fact, I think it's a pretty good example of the moronic way things are going that this has been suggested. A change to something as important as the driving test, should be considered on the basis of it's purpose.
It seems to me that the purpose of the driving test is to assess competence.
By this suggestion you could have the driving test be so hard that you have to do all of that mad handbrake parking, that nobody can do. You know the stuff wher you throw a mini at a parking space barely big enough to contain the car. At the appropriate instant you apply the handbrake, the car does a 90 degree spin, and stops neatly at a uniform distance from the kerb. That would be hard.
Personally I think the test should accurately assess the competence of drivers. If it needs to change, in order to achieve that, then it should. To make it harder for the sake of it, is as dumb as everthing else that's going wrong in this crappy country.
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