Dr Local's driving clinic
Discussion
TripleS said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Sideways fun is all well and good, but if you try it on the road, you run the risk of crashing or making an arse of yourself. Or both.
There is also the possibility of incurring the displeasure of modern day BiB - who sound to be less understanding of these high jinks than the BiB of yesteryear. You could of course be lucky and find yourself discussing the matter fairly amiably with somebody like R U Local Esq. (or approved equivalent) or you could be having a bad day and find Von on your case.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
This is true. One of those encounters would result in a summons for careless driving, whereas the other would result in some impromptu drifting lessons.
Probably.
What if you'd accidently just applied too much throttle and were a bit shaken but pleased you hadn't crashed? Perhaps blaming diesel on the road? (TVR and Elise drivers favourite crash excuse). Surely it wouldn't also be careless driving to accidently get wheel spin in a front wheel drive car? No different really, accidently breaking traction, especially in the wet on cup tyres with 1.7mm of tread left (for example).
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
naetype said:
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Attitude is key.
vonhosen said:
naetype said:
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Attitude is key.
Certainly, but the behaviour of other people does sometimes make it additionally difficult for us to maintin the right attitude, even if we have the right one to start with.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
vonhosen said:
naetype said:
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Attitude is key.
Certainly, but the behaviour of other people does sometimes make it additionally difficult for us to maintin the right attitude, even if we have the right one to start with.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Is that a general comment or are you referring to a change in attitude from naetype, or from the driver of the vehicle being overtaken ?
What we can expect of people is to behave reasonably within the law.
In the described event above (we of course only have naetype's description of events & that's not in great detail so we don't have much to go on), my own reading of it, is that I didn't personally see a great deal of unreasonable behaviour from the others mentioned in that post, until 'after' naetype had gone on the overtake. An overtake which didn't appear to be on from the description above, as there were no sociable gaps.
Whilst it might be frustrating for some that they can't enjoy themselves by traveling as quickly as they'd like on the roads, enjoyment is not what the roads are there primarily for. Provided people are behaving safely, legally & reasonably we should all be fine.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 15th April 11:14
vonhosen said:
naetype said:
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Attitude is key.
Time of the day is key, I set off at 05.15 this morning for an early morning run, the engine expired on the A59 near Gisburn but hey, these things happen.
Normally I can get 3 hours of reasonably uninterrupted driving in.
Anybody got a TR7/8 engine for sale?.
vonhosen said:
TripleS said:
vonhosen said:
naetype said:
It's not technique I have a problem with, it's my attitude.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Take today; out in the P&J driving down by Strathyre, hit the first set of twisties, 20 secs later and... feck... 5/6 cars behind a coach all bunched up, no sociable gaps let alone anything bigger. There goes my fun unless I can get by them. So begins a series of manic bursts of acceleration & heavy braking. One of the buggers even speeds up while I'm overtaking then flashes his lights at me as I HAVE to pull in (what is he thinking, does he really think I'm going to stay on the other side of the road as a result of his dangerous behaviour?).
It's one of the reasons I'd love to get a sports bike but won't. Sooner or later (probably sooner) I'd fire myself headfirst thru the nearest wall or into the biggest tree trunk on the planet. Good night vienna.
Patience is not my virtue.
Attitude is key.
Certainly, but the behaviour of other people does sometimes make it additionally difficult for us to maintin the right attitude, even if we have the right one to start with.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Is that a general comment or are you referring to a change in attitude from naetype, or from the driver of the vehicle being overtaken ?
What we can expect of people is to behave reasonably within the law.
In the described event above (we of course only have naetype's description of events & that's not in great detail so we don't have much to go on), my own reading of it, is that I didn't personally see a great deal of unreasonable behaviour from the others mentioned in that post, until 'after' naetype had gone on the overtake. An overtake which didn't appear to be on from the description above, as there were no sociable gaps.
Whilst it might be frustrating for some that they can't enjoy themselves by traveling as quickly as they'd like on the roads, enjoyment is not what the roads are there primarily for. Provided people are behaving safely, legally & reasonably we should all be fine.
I was speaking generally. The overtaking sounds to me to have been not on without risk of causing some upset which is apparently what happened. Mind you, I did a poor one last night so I can't criticise too much!
As for enjoyment in our driving, well of course that's not what the roads are primarily there for, but I think we should be allowed some enjoyment, and done in the right way it need not be a source of trouble for anybody.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
kambites said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
kambites said:
I had one lucky "accident" a while back. It was on a duel carriage way, two lanes in each direction with a big roundabout every half mile or so. I braked down to a stop from about 60 to one of the roundabouts, no problems so far, then I pulled out onto the roundabout, accelerating up to about 20mph when suddenly the back end snapped out. I span, miraculously staying roughly in my own lane (there was traffic in the lanes on both sides of me), and eventually came to a stop facing the wrong way down the road...
When I got out of the car my nearside rear tyre was no longer on the wheel. I had checked the pressure less than half an hour before, the tyre was only two weeks old. There was no fault found with the wheel or the tyre when they were investigated afterwards.
Had the failure happened on the road I had been driving on just before hand, I probably would have gone backwards into a field at 50mph.
What, if anything, can one do to avoid writing a car off if something like this happens at the wrong moment?
When I got out of the car my nearside rear tyre was no longer on the wheel. I had checked the pressure less than half an hour before, the tyre was only two weeks old. There was no fault found with the wheel or the tyre when they were investigated afterwards.
Had the failure happened on the road I had been driving on just before hand, I probably would have gone backwards into a field at 50mph.
What, if anything, can one do to avoid writing a car off if something like this happens at the wrong moment?
There are three things you should bear in mind if you get a tyre failure at speed.
1. Don’t brake
2. Don’t brake, and
3. DON’T BRAKE!
If a tyre has deflated suddenly, or blown out, and you brake, then the car will steer very sharply away from the flat tyre (the brakes won’t be working efficiently on the side of the flat, so it’ll pull towards the tyre that’s still inflated).
A sudden tyre deflation will make the car feel unsettled diagonally, and the car will very quickly “crab”, as the flat tyre holds one corner of the car back. It’s very easy to brake at this point, and it’s most people’s natural reaction – evn those who’ve been trained not to will still have a natural tendency to press the brakes…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUWJrBm3L2k
As you can see, once you’ve braked, there’s no going back, and these two bobbies were very lucky.
Rather than brake, try to concentrate on steering the car in the direction you want to go, lose speed through deceleration only, and if you’re on the motorway, try to gently steer towards the hard shoulder.
And remember,
Don’t brake.
I didn't brake, or indeed do anything except whack it round to opposite lock... which the car completely ignored.
My experience - that worked for me. (So may help others)
Rear tyre lets go suddenly at about 100mph on a RWD a while back and I and the car starts to overstear
As this was an extreme situation....I dipped clutch imediately - take all power away from rear wheels.
Touch and go for a few seconds as the bloody thing is yawring about.
I use very subtle stearing inputs to correct the fishtailing which gradually reduces as the speed comes down and less is being asked of the tyres. (I treat the stearing wheel as if it is made of glass). So I would add that STEARING is the key to sorting this out but be DELICATE with it.
In this instance DONT TOUCH THE GAS. You obviously cant use the throttle to control the position of the car
And yes DONT TOUCH THE BRAKE. As if I had I would probably be 6ft under now.
Best Wishes
Steve
Having looked at that vid. I feel for the guy as thats what happened to me - the backend behaved in exactly the same way for the first few secs and no matter how much you are trying to feel what the car is doing through your arse and how delicate you are with your stearing inputs you know you could be chucked off the road at any moment. It is bloody hairy for those first few secs at that kind of speed.
Major Bloodnok said:
This will probably seem a bit trivial, but it's bugging the hell out of me, because I don't know if it's just me or if it's the car.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
I have also noticed this in several BMWs I have driven (Especialy 3 series of this age). Takes a bit of getting used to. And if I havent driven a beemer for a while - then I tend to stall them during the first few mins. Very embarrasing! So perhaps it is a BMW thing?
scoobman said:
Major Bloodnok said:
This will probably seem a bit trivial, but it's bugging the hell out of me, because I don't know if it's just me or if it's the car.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
I have also noticed this in several BMWs I have driven (Especialy 3 series of this age). Takes a bit of getting used to. And if I havent driven a beemer for a while - then I tend to stall them during the first few mins. Very embarrasing! So perhaps it is a BMW thing?
Can't say I recognise the symptoms from my experiences of driving a 98 318ti and a 99 528i.
ETA: Nor, indeed, a 118.
Edited by CommanderJameson on Monday 16th April 22:44
CommanderJameson said:
scoobman said:
And if I havent driven a beemer for a while - then I tend to stall them during the first few mins. Very embarrasing! So perhaps it is a BMW thing?
Can't say I recognise the symptoms from my experiences of driving a 98 318ti and a 99 528i.
ETA: Nor, indeed, a 118.
Is it stalling at very low revs while you are manoeuvring, If you try crawling along on barely enough revs while slipping the clutch then turn the wheel it will stall because it needs a few extra revs for the power steering, It has happened to me this way but as far as i can remember never in any other make.
scoobman said:
Major Bloodnok said:
This will probably seem a bit trivial, but it's bugging the hell out of me, because I don't know if it's just me or if it's the car.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
90-odd percent of the time, I drive the MR2, but just occasionally I climb into the Beemer, because I need the boot space, or more than one passenger. The thing with the Beemer (it's an '03 318i, BTW), is that the clutch bite point seems very high, certainly compared to the MR2, and I have great difficulty not kangarooing it in first and second. It's almost as if there are two bite points - a grab near the top of the travel, and a second one as you finally release the pedal. It's embarrassing as much as anything - I normally have no trouble accelerating smoothly, but this is quite painful - I feel like a learner. Now I'm tempted to believe that it's me being daft, since SWMBO doesn't complain of it, but I'm a bit worried that I should get the dealer to have a look at it, since such a high bite point doesn't seem right to me (it's fully disengaged about halfway down). Any comments? Am I just being a pranny and suffering for not driving it very often? Any tips for adjusting between the two cars?
One other point - I do wonder if the bite point is deliberately set high, since I find that the outside of my left foot catches the foot rest when I push the clutch in fully. Perhaps it's set so that you only have to dip it as far as the rest, rather than all the way to the floor.
I have also noticed this in several BMWs I have driven (Especialy 3 series of this age). Takes a bit of getting used to. And if I havent driven a beemer for a while - then I tend to stall them during the first few mins. Very embarrasing! So perhaps it is a BMW thing?
Nice to know I'm not the only one. (And I discovered last night that SWMBO does have a problem with it, too - I felt the car lurch on a few occasions moving off.) I think I might ask the dealer to have a look at it, just to be sure.
Edited by Major Bloodnok on Tuesday 17th April 09:45
R_U_LOCAL said:
There are three things you should bear in mind if you get a tyre failure at speed.
1. Don’t brake
2. Don’t brake, and
3. DON’T BRAKE!
If a tyre has deflated suddenly, or blown out, and you brake, then the car will steer very sharply away from the flat tyre (the brakes won’t be working efficiently on the side of the flat, so it’ll pull towards the tyre that’s still inflated).
A sudden tyre deflation will make the car feel unsettled diagonally, and the car will very quickly “crab”, as the flat tyre holds one corner of the car back. It’s very easy to brake at this point, and it’s most people’s natural reaction – evn those who’ve been trained not to will still have a natural tendency to press the brakes…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUWJrBm3L2k
As you can see, once you’ve braked, there’s no going back, and these two bobbies were very lucky.
Rather than brake, try to concentrate on steering the car in the direction you want to go, lose speed through deceleration only, and if you’re on the motorway, try to gently steer towards the hard shoulder.
And remember,
Don’t brake.
1. Don’t brake
2. Don’t brake, and
3. DON’T BRAKE!
If a tyre has deflated suddenly, or blown out, and you brake, then the car will steer very sharply away from the flat tyre (the brakes won’t be working efficiently on the side of the flat, so it’ll pull towards the tyre that’s still inflated).
A sudden tyre deflation will make the car feel unsettled diagonally, and the car will very quickly “crab”, as the flat tyre holds one corner of the car back. It’s very easy to brake at this point, and it’s most people’s natural reaction – evn those who’ve been trained not to will still have a natural tendency to press the brakes…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUWJrBm3L2k
As you can see, once you’ve braked, there’s no going back, and these two bobbies were very lucky.
Rather than brake, try to concentrate on steering the car in the direction you want to go, lose speed through deceleration only, and if you’re on the motorway, try to gently steer towards the hard shoulder.
And remember,
Don’t brake.
Reg,
As you say, they were very lucky. But sometimes you make your own luck...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQWyAWSApzg
You can ignore the first five minutes (which we can only hope were presented in court, for the defence) but they do provide an insight into the driver's ability to anticipate and plan.
Any thoughts (and I appreciate you may prefer not to comment) on the driver's retrospective explanation / commentary?
As the narrator says...
"Close calls are part and parcel of a traffic cop's life. But PC Langley has had more than his fair share"
Inexplicable, isn't it
WilliBetz
PS.
Edited by willibetz on Tuesday 17th April 09:47
willibetz said:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQWyAWSApzg
You can ignore the first five minutes (which we can only hope were presented in court, for the defence) but they do provide an insight into the driver's ability to anticipate and plan....
you mean the part where he tries to pass an HGV at 120mph while its halfway through moving into his lane? And then says its the truck driver's fault that he hits it. IMO its pretty hard to tell if he would have avoided that spin without the other traffic around, or if he was out of control anyway and used the other traffic as an excuse to make it sound like he chose to let it spin instead of risk crossing the other lanes.
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 17th April 10:25
Hmm - there's not a lot you can do about a tyre self-destructing, and I could forgive him for losing control under the circumstances. His speed at the time wasn't a real problem, but having now seen the longer version, it's obvious how he's picked up the puncture. I don't like using the hard shoulder or areas of chevrons unless it's an absolute last resort, as those areas of road aren't swept very often, and gather a lot of road debris which can cause a puncture. I'm sure this Officer's use of the chevrons contributed to his tyre deflation.
There's some disagreeable commentary in there...
No they mustn't. It is possible to drive fast Police cars on a response run, whilst keeping risks to a minimum. What use is that Officer once he's crashed? The control room have to find another patrol for the air accident, and another patrol to deal with the Police accident. Drive to arrive has never made more sense.
As for the first accident, I cringe every time I see it. The Officer passes a motorway route board which clearly shows an up-coming roundabout, and the right-hand indicator is visible on the HGV from the second it enters the picture. At that instant, it should have been obvious that the truck intended to turn right and the Officer should have gone nearside. Why he remains offside right up until the bitter end is beyond me. His comments suggest that he relies heavily on other drivers reacting to his presence in order to make progress. If that's his attitude, he's not fit to ride a penny-farthing.
There's some disagreeable commentary in there...
Narrator said:
People may be hurt in the plane crash, so risks must be taken
No they mustn't. It is possible to drive fast Police cars on a response run, whilst keeping risks to a minimum. What use is that Officer once he's crashed? The control room have to find another patrol for the air accident, and another patrol to deal with the Police accident. Drive to arrive has never made more sense.
As for the first accident, I cringe every time I see it. The Officer passes a motorway route board which clearly shows an up-coming roundabout, and the right-hand indicator is visible on the HGV from the second it enters the picture. At that instant, it should have been obvious that the truck intended to turn right and the Officer should have gone nearside. Why he remains offside right up until the bitter end is beyond me. His comments suggest that he relies heavily on other drivers reacting to his presence in order to make progress. If that's his attitude, he's not fit to ride a penny-farthing.
Well said, Reg 
The use of the chevrons on the entry to the motorway seemed particularly gratuitous, affording no apparent benefit to safety, visibility or progress. It rather looked as though he was enjoying driving in close company with the lead Officer, even if that was a distraction rather than an aid to progress.
Thankfully it wasn't the lead Officer who suffered the blow out, or PC Langley may have arrived on scene rather too quickly...
As to the first clip, it did provide a great insight into the Officer's impartiality and attitude to learning. It really ought to have been used to highlight the need for some reskilling, rather than broadcast for public consumption. But, as it was broadcast, you've gotta admire the use of the steering wheel...
WilliBetz
The use of the chevrons on the entry to the motorway seemed particularly gratuitous, affording no apparent benefit to safety, visibility or progress. It rather looked as though he was enjoying driving in close company with the lead Officer, even if that was a distraction rather than an aid to progress.
Thankfully it wasn't the lead Officer who suffered the blow out, or PC Langley may have arrived on scene rather too quickly...
As to the first clip, it did provide a great insight into the Officer's impartiality and attitude to learning. It really ought to have been used to highlight the need for some reskilling, rather than broadcast for public consumption. But, as it was broadcast, you've gotta admire the use of the steering wheel...
WilliBetz
Ok I'll go.
Wintry morning, reasonably heavy snow overnight thawing, side roads snow covered, main roads mixture wet and slushy. Clear and daylight.
Turning left at a give way T into a main road.
Queuing traffic from left to right, no traffic from my right going same way as I intended going. Vehicles behind me also waiting to turn left.
So I turn left, short way (75 yds) up the main road there is a junction to the right, from a housing estate, so side road covered in snow, steep downhill & slippery as you know what. Gap left by queuing traffic opposite junction.
Spot Rover 200 series sliding down hill and clearly no way can stop when gets to main road. Motor cyclist overtaking opposing queue of traffic, clearly significant risk of Rover & motor cyclist interface situation.
If I carry on will arrive at junction EITHER: at exact moment that they have coming together, OR: when m/c sees Rover and will want to move to his right onto wrong side of road to avoid, ie where I will be.
So I hang right back to give time and space to deal with situation.
Meanwhile....
chummy who was behind me at the T junction, arrives at give way line, pauses, looks right, clear, guns it, eyes forward, ooops, brakes, skids on snow and slush and gives me a grands worth up the posterior.
Things I could have done different.
1) Carried on and hoped that Rover / m/c didn't develop. (Don't like word hope in any plan)
2) Gone further forward nearer to junction, (not that much space to do that but maybe even 10 yds would have fixed it)
3) Observed the situation earlier and held back at T-junction. (Can't recall if timing on Rover & m/c would exclude that but 75 yds away??)
4) Kept a better eye on what was happening behind and not focussed on the impending connection between Rover and m/c.
Failure there imo.
5) Suggestions welcome....
Over to you Dr Local et al.
Wintry morning, reasonably heavy snow overnight thawing, side roads snow covered, main roads mixture wet and slushy. Clear and daylight.
Turning left at a give way T into a main road.
Queuing traffic from left to right, no traffic from my right going same way as I intended going. Vehicles behind me also waiting to turn left.
So I turn left, short way (75 yds) up the main road there is a junction to the right, from a housing estate, so side road covered in snow, steep downhill & slippery as you know what. Gap left by queuing traffic opposite junction.
Spot Rover 200 series sliding down hill and clearly no way can stop when gets to main road. Motor cyclist overtaking opposing queue of traffic, clearly significant risk of Rover & motor cyclist interface situation.
If I carry on will arrive at junction EITHER: at exact moment that they have coming together, OR: when m/c sees Rover and will want to move to his right onto wrong side of road to avoid, ie where I will be.
So I hang right back to give time and space to deal with situation.
Meanwhile....
chummy who was behind me at the T junction, arrives at give way line, pauses, looks right, clear, guns it, eyes forward, ooops, brakes, skids on snow and slush and gives me a grands worth up the posterior.
Things I could have done different.
1) Carried on and hoped that Rover / m/c didn't develop. (Don't like word hope in any plan)
2) Gone further forward nearer to junction, (not that much space to do that but maybe even 10 yds would have fixed it)
3) Observed the situation earlier and held back at T-junction. (Can't recall if timing on Rover & m/c would exclude that but 75 yds away??)
4) Kept a better eye on what was happening behind and not focussed on the impending connection between Rover and m/c.
Failure there imo. 5) Suggestions welcome....
Over to you Dr Local et al.
What's most disappointing about the PC Langley video is that the programme makers presented PC Langley's somewhat 'blinkered' view of his misfortunes with no hint that there might be another point of view.
For those who have not seen previous discussions about this, and in addition to the points already mentioned here, notice for how little time Langley would have been visible in the HGV's mirrors.
I would think this video would be sufficient to support a 'Without due care' charge against Langley. He just did not consider what was reasonably likely to happen, let alone the other much better options available to him (eg pass on the left).
Willi, what did you mean by your comment on the steering technique??
For those who have not seen previous discussions about this, and in addition to the points already mentioned here, notice for how little time Langley would have been visible in the HGV's mirrors.
I would think this video would be sufficient to support a 'Without due care' charge against Langley. He just did not consider what was reasonably likely to happen, let alone the other much better options available to him (eg pass on the left).
Willi, what did you mean by your comment on the steering technique??
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