Dr Local's driving clinic
Discussion
slowly slowly said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Limiters removed? F1 folks would know how.
Ask any Irish trucker how to remove a speed limiter and you know what he'll say?.
"Whats a speed limiter?"
Lol, so true. As my truckdriving mates and brother would confirm.
Mind, depending on age of truck, stuff with ignition key can suffice.
Reg's good words obviously haven't taken in my case. Driving home tonight I went to overtake 2 cars. Could see van coming the other way - plenty of space. What I missed was that a little closer, although you could see the road, you couldn't see all of it. Inevitably there was a car in it so I had less time and space than I thought. I had that momentary "Can I?" "Do I?" and then decided that the margin was too small and pulled in between the two cars.
I didn't get flashed but it wasn't pretty. Sorry of either driver is on here.
Strangely later on DC I did get flashed when I pulled back in front of HGV. Maybe I was a little closer than normal (to avoid slowing faster car coming from behind) but I didn't think it warranted a flash.
Maybe I was too eager to be home
I didn't get flashed but it wasn't pretty. Sorry of either driver is on here.
Strangely later on DC I did get flashed when I pulled back in front of HGV. Maybe I was a little closer than normal (to avoid slowing faster car coming from behind) but I didn't think it warranted a flash.
Maybe I was too eager to be home
ok, here's one from last night. Trust me, it wasn't pretty and its going to be rather expensive. I somehow expect I'm going to get slaughtered for this, but I'm not back online til late Monday so I'll see what happens:
Dual Carriageway, heading towards roundabout (I'll call it r'b). Car is around 2 seconds in front of me, and we both move to right hand lane and start indicating right. The car in front begins to slow for the r'b, as do I.
One car approaches from the right (the third exit, r'b is normal four-exit "cross" type) It travels across the r'b in as we approach, and goes straight on.
As we are now down to about 20 mph and quite close to r'b, another car approaches from third exit direction. Its in the left hand lane approaching r'b. It doesn't indicate, but my head says that its going to turn left (first exit for the driver) as I can see where he's looking, and he's braking heavily.
I look ahead and see the car in front has stopped braking. I go to select a lower gear to join the roundabout and take another look at car approaching. Just as it begins to turn left (as I expected) I look back forwards. The car in front has only just seen the car at the forth exit, and braked hard.
I react quickly, brake and attempt to swerve. Hit the car in front at relatively low speed.
My car's only got broken indicator and bumper, but where I swerved, I hit their rear light, then crumpled the edge of their rear wing. It'll be an insurance claim, so I've lost my NCB, and there's no doubt my insurance will now be sky-high.
Things I know I did wrong/ maybe should have done different:
-Not pre-empt the other car turning left at r'b (they could have gone straight on, but I could see the were looking left and their lane positioning showed their intention).
-Looked to much at other car and not enough at car in front.
-Planned to go, rather than planning to stop and looking to go.
-Probably a little close to car in front.
-Expected driver to be looking for info rather than just looking for an indicator.
But I'm sure there's more. Just kicking myself for a silly mistake.
Dual Carriageway, heading towards roundabout (I'll call it r'b). Car is around 2 seconds in front of me, and we both move to right hand lane and start indicating right. The car in front begins to slow for the r'b, as do I.
One car approaches from the right (the third exit, r'b is normal four-exit "cross" type) It travels across the r'b in as we approach, and goes straight on.
As we are now down to about 20 mph and quite close to r'b, another car approaches from third exit direction. Its in the left hand lane approaching r'b. It doesn't indicate, but my head says that its going to turn left (first exit for the driver) as I can see where he's looking, and he's braking heavily.
I look ahead and see the car in front has stopped braking. I go to select a lower gear to join the roundabout and take another look at car approaching. Just as it begins to turn left (as I expected) I look back forwards. The car in front has only just seen the car at the forth exit, and braked hard.
I react quickly, brake and attempt to swerve. Hit the car in front at relatively low speed.
My car's only got broken indicator and bumper, but where I swerved, I hit their rear light, then crumpled the edge of their rear wing. It'll be an insurance claim, so I've lost my NCB, and there's no doubt my insurance will now be sky-high.
Things I know I did wrong/ maybe should have done different:
-Not pre-empt the other car turning left at r'b (they could have gone straight on, but I could see the were looking left and their lane positioning showed their intention).
-Looked to much at other car and not enough at car in front.
-Planned to go, rather than planning to stop and looking to go.
-Probably a little close to car in front.
-Expected driver to be looking for info rather than just looking for an indicator.
But I'm sure there's more. Just kicking myself for a silly mistake.
Don't beat yourself up about this incident Leon. Use it as a learning experience. That you had such a high level of observation and showed good anticipation on the lead up to the roundabout is a good sign that you are 'thinking' carefully about what you see and what might happen and are pretty observant. The fact that what happened did highlights the fact that you did not allow a margin of error for the person in front not concentrating on other road users (he being taken by suprise). If you had kept a closer eye on what was happening in front of you, you may have been able to respond quicker and avoid coming into collision with them. Certainly leaving a bigger gap in front would have allowed you more time to come to a halt. One could have assumed that the person entering the roundabout was turning left because of their road position and where they were looking. However, assumption is the mother of all disaster. I tell my Associates to imagine that other road users are idiots (meaning that they are not giving driving their full attention therefore you should look for signs of them doing last minute manoeuvres). You need to scan a scene, taking in relevant information without focusing too intently on one thing for too long. I would liken it to a fighter pilot scanning their cockpit - there's a lot of information there so they must focus on what is immediately relevant. They need to react with lighting speed so they cannot afford to focus their gaze too long on one single thing.
Edited by EmmaP on Sunday 22 April 14:46
I would guess that just about every driver has, at some point in their driving career, either had this accident or narrowly avoided it! It's one of those classic examples of where you learn from experience as, no doubt, will you!
What has happened is that you've read the road and traffic better than the driver ahead of you with the result that, while you were ready and expecting to go, he was taken by surprise and panic braked. As Emma, says, the lesson is that you can never assume that other drivers are concentrating in the same way as you and your first priority is the car that's immediately in your path.
Hope the financial damage isn't too bad but, in any event, console yourself with the thought that that's one mistkae you won't be making again!
What has happened is that you've read the road and traffic better than the driver ahead of you with the result that, while you were ready and expecting to go, he was taken by surprise and panic braked. As Emma, says, the lesson is that you can never assume that other drivers are concentrating in the same way as you and your first priority is the car that's immediately in your path.
Hope the financial damage isn't too bad but, in any event, console yourself with the thought that that's one mistkae you won't be making again!
gdaybruce said:
I would guess that just about every driver has, at some point in their driving career, either had this accident or narrowly avoided it! It's one of those classic examples of where you learn from experience as, no doubt, will you!
What has happened is that you've read the road and traffic better than the driver ahead of you with the result that, while you were ready and expecting to go, he was taken by surprise and panic braked. As Emma, says, the lesson is that you can never assume that other drivers are concentrating in the same way as you and your first priority is the car that's immediately in your path.
Hope the financial damage isn't too bad but, in any event, console yourself with the thought that that's one mistkae you won't be making again!
What has happened is that you've read the road and traffic better than the driver ahead of you with the result that, while you were ready and expecting to go, he was taken by surprise and panic braked. As Emma, says, the lesson is that you can never assume that other drivers are concentrating in the same way as you and your first priority is the car that's immediately in your path.
Hope the financial damage isn't too bad but, in any event, console yourself with the thought that that's one mistkae you won't be making again!
As a professional driver I don't mind admitting I nearly did the same thing many years ago, It made such a lasting impression on me that I now refuse to look too my right when I'm the second car like you were, It may be of some comfort to you to say that even if the guy turning left had been signalling alot of people would still have come to a stop, just in case.
You might feel foolish at the moment but what you have learned is that everybody else on the road is an idiots, a friend of mine had a similar one after turning left out of a side road, the guy in front turned left then stopped because he saw his mate walking towards him on the pavement, my mate rolled out behind him and ran into the back of him.
You showed good observation.
I know its hard but dont beat yourself up as that is a classic.
I know a fair few people that have done that.
It is so easily done.
The gutting thing is is that the
wit in front who in effect is the primary cause, gets away scott free on the insurence side of things.
I my self have never done it. But occasionaly it crosses my mind when approaching a roundabout I wonder if it will happen one day!
I know its hard but dont beat yourself up as that is a classic.
I know a fair few people that have done that.
It is so easily done.
The gutting thing is is that the
wit in front who in effect is the primary cause, gets away scott free on the insurence side of things. I my self have never done it. But occasionaly it crosses my mind when approaching a roundabout I wonder if it will happen one day!
I wondered what the general concensus would be on undertaking a queue of traffic. My route home is on an A road - and is 3 lanes when I get on, then the left lane becomes a filter down to 2.
I come off in Lane 1 - but quite often there is a queue at a standstill (or slow moving) in lanes 2 & 3.
I generally have a clear run down the long sliproad (1/2 mile perhaps) - but sometimes people use it then cut in at the last moment to avoid the queue.
What would be an appropriate speed and approach for this?
I generally enter it at whatever speed I am travelling then cover the brake and watch for people cutting in, perhaps 40-50mph?
This has been fine for several years, but I often worry if I did have an accident then I could be judged to be travelling too fast next to stationary traffic.
I come off in Lane 1 - but quite often there is a queue at a standstill (or slow moving) in lanes 2 & 3.
I generally have a clear run down the long sliproad (1/2 mile perhaps) - but sometimes people use it then cut in at the last moment to avoid the queue.
What would be an appropriate speed and approach for this?
I generally enter it at whatever speed I am travelling then cover the brake and watch for people cutting in, perhaps 40-50mph?
This has been fine for several years, but I often worry if I did have an accident then I could be judged to be travelling too fast next to stationary traffic.
This morning I got flashed by a car following me and it's put me in a bad mood. Im a sensitive soul!
On the M6, passing a lorries in lane 1, there's a gap between two of the lorries, which to be fair I could have pulled in to, however I would have been returning to lane 2 within 10 seconds, so I made the decision to stay put. It does say in the highway code that it is safer to remain in the lane 2 or 3 while over taking a number of vehicles than it is to keep swapping lanes.
My question is 'simply' how big does the gap between cars have to be to make it appropriate to pull in. For example, if you will have to pull back out in less that x seconds, remain in the lane your in.
Many Thanks.
On the M6, passing a lorries in lane 1, there's a gap between two of the lorries, which to be fair I could have pulled in to, however I would have been returning to lane 2 within 10 seconds, so I made the decision to stay put. It does say in the highway code that it is safer to remain in the lane 2 or 3 while over taking a number of vehicles than it is to keep swapping lanes.
My question is 'simply' how big does the gap between cars have to be to make it appropriate to pull in. For example, if you will have to pull back out in less that x seconds, remain in the lane your in.
Many Thanks.
Mattt said:
I wondered what the general concensus would be on undertaking a queue of traffic. My route home is on an A road - and is 3 lanes when I get on, then the left lane becomes a filter down to 2.
I come off in Lane 1 - but quite often there is a queue at a standstill (or slow moving) in lanes 2 & 3.
I generally have a clear run down the long sliproad (1/2 mile perhaps) - but sometimes people use it then cut in at the last moment to avoid the queue.
What would be an appropriate speed and approach for this?
I generally enter it at whatever speed I am travelling then cover the brake and watch for people cutting in, perhaps 40-50mph?
This has been fine for several years, but I often worry if I did have an accident then I could be judged to be travelling too fast next to stationary traffic.
I come off in Lane 1 - but quite often there is a queue at a standstill (or slow moving) in lanes 2 & 3.
I generally have a clear run down the long sliproad (1/2 mile perhaps) - but sometimes people use it then cut in at the last moment to avoid the queue.
What would be an appropriate speed and approach for this?
I generally enter it at whatever speed I am travelling then cover the brake and watch for people cutting in, perhaps 40-50mph?
This has been fine for several years, but I often worry if I did have an accident then I could be judged to be travelling too fast next to stationary traffic.
There's no hard and fast (or slow) rule Matt - I'm afraid the only answer I can give you is a fairly unsatisfactory "a speed which will allow you to react to anyone pulling into the slip-road in front of you".
Having said that, it wouldn't have to be a crawl, as you've always got the option of driving on to the hard shoulder in an emergency, as well as braking. You should also be looking for the vehicles which you think might move in front of you. If a gap opens up in slow-moving traffic, it could create enough spece for someone to pull across into your lane. This is less likely if the traffic is stopped nose-to-tail.
Ask Elvis said:
This morning I got flashed by a car following me and it's put me in a bad mood. Im a sensitive soul!
On the M6, passing a lorries in lane 1, there's a gap between two of the lorries, which to be fair I could have pulled in to, however I would have been returning to lane 2 within 10 seconds, so I made the decision to stay put. It does say in the highway code that it is safer to remain in the lane 2 or 3 while over taking a number of vehicles than it is to keep swapping lanes.
My question is 'simply' how big does the gap between cars have to be to make it appropriate to pull in. For example, if you will have to pull back out in less that x seconds, remain in the lane your in.
Many Thanks.
On the M6, passing a lorries in lane 1, there's a gap between two of the lorries, which to be fair I could have pulled in to, however I would have been returning to lane 2 within 10 seconds, so I made the decision to stay put. It does say in the highway code that it is safer to remain in the lane 2 or 3 while over taking a number of vehicles than it is to keep swapping lanes.
My question is 'simply' how big does the gap between cars have to be to make it appropriate to pull in. For example, if you will have to pull back out in less that x seconds, remain in the lane your in.
Many Thanks.
Don't take headlight flashes so much to heart. The subject has been discussed to death on here recently, and the only real meaning of a headlight flash is to let another road user know that you're there. Taking his signal literally, the driver who flashed you was only warning you of their presence - if you were aware they were there, and you made a rational decision to stay out in lane 3 to complete an overtake, knowing they were there, then you can't be criticised at all.
Again, there's no hard and fast rule with gap sizes, as it would all depend on your speed and the speed of the vehicles you are passing. I'll use headlight flash on the motorway during the day if I'm teaching, as we've got a speed limit exemption and our closing speeds on other vehicles can be very high. The guidelines I give to students for using headlight flash is that the flashed vehicle must have somewhere to go, and if they move out of our lane, they shouldn't have to alter their speed in order to let us past. If they do move into a gap and have to slow down, then the headlight flash would have been mis-judged.
As to my earlier incident, I think my main mistake was I took too long a look at the car approaching the r'b rather than glancing back in front again. This meant I didn't notice that I had crept closer to the car in front.
I've been trying to separate out my braking and gearchanging to use less engine-braking now and I think that because I didn't change down while initially braking my car didn't slow much through engine braking. This allowed me to creep closer to the car in front.
Her braking was quite strong and sudden, in fact I should have checked our exact position but I think she stopped partially on the roundabout before I hit her anyway.
I probably would have got away with it if I had ABS, but I shouldn't have got myself in the position I did.
Talking to people afterwards, I now figure that there's no point looking to join a roundabout at all until you know the person in front has gone.
Still, I'll keep going.
I've been trying to separate out my braking and gearchanging to use less engine-braking now and I think that because I didn't change down while initially braking my car didn't slow much through engine braking. This allowed me to creep closer to the car in front.
Her braking was quite strong and sudden, in fact I should have checked our exact position but I think she stopped partially on the roundabout before I hit her anyway.
I probably would have got away with it if I had ABS, but I shouldn't have got myself in the position I did.
Talking to people afterwards, I now figure that there's no point looking to join a roundabout at all until you know the person in front has gone.
Still, I'll keep going.
leon_t said:
I now figure that there's no point looking to join a roundabout at all until you know the person in front has gone.
plus
slowly slowly said:
I now refuse to look to my right when I'm the second car like you were
Actually I don't really agree with either of these, though in slowly slowly's point it does depend on the volume of traffic in the circuit to some extent.
Noted that you said you'd allowed yourself to creep too close to the vehicle in front.
However surely the issue is that before you go, e.g. off the brakes etc you should make the last look to the front, i.e. is it actually clear to go in the very spot you are about to drive into?
Moral of story, don't put vehicle in a place where brain and eyes haven't been first.
Refusing to even look to the right results in the syndrome we all hate, Mrs FFEW Club arrives at roundabout, stops, puts on handbrake, engages first gear, then looks to right. Oh well bless my soul, it's clear and has been for the last fifteen minutes.
OK I'm exaggerating that point but you know what I mean.
Think your original assessment was more balanced , i.e. that you were looking to go, but prepared to stop if anything heaved into view, as opposed to planning to stop, looking to go.
Flat in Fifth said:
slowly slowly said:
I now refuse to look to my right when I'm the second car like you were
Actually I don't really agree with either of these, though in slowly slowly's point it does depend on the volume of traffic in the circuit to some extent.
Refusing to even look to the right results in the syndrome we all hate, Mrs FFEW Club arrives at roundabout, stops, puts on handbrake, engages first gear, then looks to right. Oh well bless my soul, it's clear and has been for the last fifteen minutes.
OK I'm exaggerating that point but you know what I mean.
I think you have misunderstood what I said, the only reason I do not look right is because there is a car in front of me and I don't trust them to carry on if there are no vehicles on, or nearly on the roundabout, If there is no one in front of me I will fly on that roundabout like the best of them, what is the point in looking to the right if the plank in front decides to stop.
I got talking to some guys at work about this last night and almost everyone of them have either run into someone or nearly run into someone, it must be one of the most often occuring accidents.
My advise would always be treat the driver in front as though he is an idiot and watch him accordingly.
I know what you mean, I was just saying my initial response was I was so annoyed about the whole thing I was saying 'if I don't look right at all until I'm stopped I'm in the right if someone runs into the back of me', making the point that you would be within the law and not at fault (insurance and police view anyway) if you did this, while someone who has a higher level of awareness could still nearly run into you. Was just frustrating.
I admitted that it was my fault at the scene, I even felt guilty for inconveniencing the other people involved, but it was just annoying me inside.
I know my mistake was primarily getting too close, although I know if I'd heel'n'toed like I would have done in the past I wouldn't have had the same problem.
But yes, I take your point, it would hardly help traffic flow to stop every time.
Its just that trying to adapt my driving to some of the more IAM-style techniques (separating braking and gearchanges primarily), at times I make mistakes and put myself in a situation I wouldn't usually, mainly due to the lack of engine-braking. It'll hopefully go in time.
Maybe I should put green L-plates on my car!
I admitted that it was my fault at the scene, I even felt guilty for inconveniencing the other people involved, but it was just annoying me inside.
I know my mistake was primarily getting too close, although I know if I'd heel'n'toed like I would have done in the past I wouldn't have had the same problem.
But yes, I take your point, it would hardly help traffic flow to stop every time.
Its just that trying to adapt my driving to some of the more IAM-style techniques (separating braking and gearchanges primarily), at times I make mistakes and put myself in a situation I wouldn't usually, mainly due to the lack of engine-braking. It'll hopefully go in time.
Maybe I should put green L-plates on my car!
Edited by leon_t on Tuesday 24th April 16:59
leon_t said:
'if I don't look right at all until I'm stopped I'm in the right if someone runs into the back of me',
But yes, I take your point, it would hardly help traffic flow to stop every time.
But yes, I take your point, it would hardly help traffic flow to stop every time.
Just because you don't look right doesn't mean you have to come to a halt, in your case you couldn't make progress because the person in front came to a halt, If the person in front isn't going to stop then the chances are neither will you, he/she makes the decision not to stop then you make or don't make a similar decision.
I don't know who mentioned not looking right led to stopping but in my case I usually only stop when the person in front stops(or there is something on the roundabout).
I hope that clears it up.
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