Cornering basics 3 - linking corners.
Discussion
7db said:
I drove Buttertubs last weekend and the A686 as well, and think that the roads into and out of Alston are far better. In particular the section from Middleton to Brough is amazing.
Buttertubs was a bit ordinary with a very steep drop, and not as good as much of the rest of the Dales in my view.
Buttertubs was a bit ordinary with a very steep drop, and not as good as much of the rest of the Dales in my view.
Thanks for that, 7db. I'll not rush over to North Yorkshire, then, but take it if the opportunity arises.
As a matter of (probable non-) interest, I nearly didn't do that trip. My son asked if we could go to Vindolanda, and my first thought was "that's a bit of a trek from Manchester; all that motorway driving". My second thought, following on about a nanosecond from the first, was "A686!". "OK, son, Vindolanda, it is".
Also incidentally, on the way up I took the A689(?) from Alston to the A69. That's not a bad bit of road, either.
Major Bloodnok said:
There's also the bit between Langley-on-Tyne and Bearsbridge, which has three lovely hairpins. that would make good viewing.
Funny you should mention that.
When I filmed the overtaking demo the other week, my route took me back that way. I've just had a look back through the original video and I've got some footage of that bit of road. It's filmed in patented Local Wobblecam, so the quality is a bit poor, but you should get the idea...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0QMW-xxl8
R_U_LOCAL said:
Major Bloodnok said:
There's also the bit between Langley-on-Tyne and Bearsbridge, which has three lovely hairpins. that would make good viewing.
Funny you should mention that.
When I filmed the overtaking demo the other week, my route took me back that way. I've just had a look back through the original video and I've got some footage of that bit of road. It's filmed in patented Local Wobblecam, so the quality is a bit poor, but you should get the idea...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0QMW-xxl8
By 'eck there's a thing; I've just seen a (to me) rare example of SLOW being painted on the road to some useful effect. At about 3'30" you drive round a LH curve followed immediately by a sharp RH bend. Those markings did look to be appropriate - for once.
That sort of thing can be helpful, like where you've driven a sequence of swift easy curves, and then suddenly there's a bend much tighter than what you've just been negotiating. That can catch people out, and that is where signs and road markings should be deployed. A good deal of the rest is wasted IMHO - crying wolf too often - most drivers ignoring them etc.
Best wishes all,
Dave - give credit where it's due.
First of all 'thanks', as has been said before, an illuminating post and obviously a great deal of effort has gone into its preparation and presentation - and strangely enough for an internet forum, you manage to put it across without sounding like 'Billy Big Wheels' - great!
Probably not really covered in 'linking corners' but a few things occured to me when reading it;
Firstly when talking about linking corners I remember the odd opportunity for 'straight-lining', that is taking the path through a series of moderate or shallow bends in a road that favours the straight line when no advantage can be gained from positioning in the classic way. This maintains stability of the veh etc, obviously like everything it depends on appropriatness but I often use this, sometimes to the consternation of my passenger who considers any 'wrong side' position to be akin to setting yourself on fire. Wondered if you had thougts on this?
Secondly my instructors used to drill into me to 'lift my vision' - i.e. looking much much further ahead and around, obviously this is fundemental to 'advanced driving', it allows better and earlier anticipation and therefore better and earlier planning. You've demonstrated this with the look to the right hand side when negociating the last bend, however looking even further ahead, sometimes miles ahead when vision allows, at, for example hedge lines, farm buildings, houses, intersecting roads can also give you an idea of what may be coming up in the next few miles - this is more a 'strategic' view than a 'tactical' one but again, just thought I'd mention it! (Example, driving along, look a few miles towards the horizon, see farmhouse to right with hedge leading towards our general path = anticipate an entrance/tractors somewhere over the course of the next mile or so...that sort of thing).
Thanks again and keep them coming, your efforts are appreciated!!
Probably not really covered in 'linking corners' but a few things occured to me when reading it;
Firstly when talking about linking corners I remember the odd opportunity for 'straight-lining', that is taking the path through a series of moderate or shallow bends in a road that favours the straight line when no advantage can be gained from positioning in the classic way. This maintains stability of the veh etc, obviously like everything it depends on appropriatness but I often use this, sometimes to the consternation of my passenger who considers any 'wrong side' position to be akin to setting yourself on fire. Wondered if you had thougts on this?
Secondly my instructors used to drill into me to 'lift my vision' - i.e. looking much much further ahead and around, obviously this is fundemental to 'advanced driving', it allows better and earlier anticipation and therefore better and earlier planning. You've demonstrated this with the look to the right hand side when negociating the last bend, however looking even further ahead, sometimes miles ahead when vision allows, at, for example hedge lines, farm buildings, houses, intersecting roads can also give you an idea of what may be coming up in the next few miles - this is more a 'strategic' view than a 'tactical' one but again, just thought I'd mention it! (Example, driving along, look a few miles towards the horizon, see farmhouse to right with hedge leading towards our general path = anticipate an entrance/tractors somewhere over the course of the next mile or so...that sort of thing).
Thanks again and keep them coming, your efforts are appreciated!!
Mis-spent youth = poor spelling
Edited by andy_s on Saturday 14th April 10:17
andy_s said:
Probably not really covered in 'linking corners' but a few things occured to me when reading it;
Firstly when talking about linking corners I remember the odd opportunity for 'straight-lining', that is taking the path through a series of moderate or shallow bends in a road that favours the straight line when no advantage can be gained from positioning in the classic way. This maintains stability of the veh etc, obviously like everything it depends on appropriatness but I often use this, sometimes to the consternation of my passenger who considers any 'wrong side' position to be akin to setting yourself on fire. Wondered if you had thougts on this?
If you have a number of shallow bends followed by a tight one, provided you have the vision & it's safe to, then yes I would effectively apply the system to the furthest (tight) feature, setting the car up for it through the shallow bends by taking the most appropriate line. Be sure you have the necessary vision though & don't overposition for the tight one (which is a common mistake).
As you say though some people may always be dismayed by behaviour that is outside their terms of reference & as a result may label it as dangerous on the basis that they consider themselves careful drivers & they wouldn't do it.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 14th April 10:43
Thanks for the video, Reg. I love that section of the road.
TripleS: the "Slow" before the third (right-hand) hairpin is even more useful, since that one comes after a relaxing bit of (comparatively) straight road, and the full view of it is obscured by the ridge line to the right. It pays to observe that one...
TripleS: the "Slow" before the third (right-hand) hairpin is even more useful, since that one comes after a relaxing bit of (comparatively) straight road, and the full view of it is obscured by the ridge line to the right. It pays to observe that one...
Some of those SLOW markings have clearly been borrowed from the B6276, probably the most technically challenging road of last weekend's trip...and a reminder about thorough assessment of the road based on seeing it. Corner after corner features hidden S-bends (where both entrance and exit to a smooth - say - left-hander were clear and visible with just the apex slightly obscured by a crest, but revealing a tight S-bend at the apex after a hump) and tightening vertical corners -- where the road falls away sharply behind the crest -- something I've never seen to be an issue anywhere else.
Remarkable road.
In retrospect perhaps writing "SHIT" on the road instead of "SLOW" would be more appropriate since that's what was being said as the hazard revealed itself.
Remarkable road.
In retrospect perhaps writing "SHIT" on the road instead of "SLOW" would be more appropriate since that's what was being said as the hazard revealed itself.
7db said:
Some of those SLOW markings have clearly been borrowed from the B6276, probably the most technically challenging road of last weekend's trip...and a reminder about thorough assessment of the road based on seeing it. Corner after corner features hidden S-bends (where both entrance and exit to a smooth - say - left-hander were clear and visible with just the apex slightly obscured by a crest, but revealing a tight S-bend at the apex after a hump) and tightening vertical corners -- where the road falls away sharply behind the crest -- something I've never seen to be an issue anywhere else.
Remarkable road.
In retrospect perhaps writing "SHIT" on the road instead of "SLOW" would be more appropriate since that's what was being said as the hazard revealed itself.
Remarkable road.
In retrospect perhaps writing "SHIT" on the road instead of "SLOW" would be more appropriate since that's what was being said as the hazard revealed itself.
Yermustabeengoingtoofast.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Major Bloodnok said:
I've always known them as "Cheshire railings" - they're everywhere in the countryside around Altrincham, but seem to disappear as you move out of Cheshire. They are massively useful when forming a driving plan, though.
That's a blast from the past!
I remember seeing them all over Cheshire when I was growing up, but like you, I've never seen them anywhere else.Another great post Reg, thanks. I'd already decided the road would be going tightly right because of the other fence visible next to the bit you circled, which just didn't look at all like an extension of the bit that curved away.
It's weird, when following these talk throughs I can't help imagining I'm on a bike and picking my lines and braking points! Old habits die hard I suppose, it's a decade at least since I last hooned on a big bike.
It's weird, when following these talk throughs I can't help imagining I'm on a bike and picking my lines and braking points! Old habits die hard I suppose, it's a decade at least since I last hooned on a big bike.
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