Question about overtaking.
Discussion
irm said:
Interesting replies cause when i suggested "lighting them up" as i was taught on and hp/advanced course
I got royally
ed by the "great" and all "knowledgeable" that contribute If it causes you no problems carry on, it is mentioned in Road craft I’ll find the exact page and phrase when I can be bothered
I find this interesting.
When I was an Observer for the IAM I used the horn for overtakes.
My assigned Police Class One Driver suggested that a long headlamp flash was more appropriate.
I used that and, as others have suggested, found that this upsets some road users.
So, how to proceed?
WhoseGeneration said:
irm said:
Interesting replies cause when i suggested "lighting them up" as i was taught on and hp/advanced course
I got royally
ed by the "great" and all "knowledgeable" that contribute If it causes you no problems carry on, it is mentioned in Road craft I’ll find the exact page and phrase when I can be bothered
I find this interesting.
When I was an Observer for the IAM I used the horn for overtakes.
My assigned Police Class One Driver suggested that a long headlamp flash was more appropriate.
I used that and, as others have suggested, found that this upsets some road users.
So, how to proceed?
What I've recently taken to doing sometimes is putting on dipped headlights long before I've even closed up to a following position, and then leaving them on until the overtaking is completed.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Rather than a headlight flash, I'm inclined to put them on as I prepare for the overtake and leave them on during it. The worse rearward visibility the car in front has the more lights I'll switch on, and I'll have no compunction at all about sounding the horn as I approach them if their body language hints that they are about to do something stupid.
I have to admit that if someone flashed me before overtaking I would double check the rear fog light switch, indicators, any signs of smoke etc. Obviously I should know that none of these are a problem but I would check anyway. Having concluded that none of these were a problem I would then wonder why a car that I could see perfectly clearly should flash me.
As to taking it as aggression I think that many (most?) people consider anyone that overtakes them as driving dangerously quickly, and anyone that holds them up as driving ridiculously slowly. Either way they are a menace.
As to taking it as aggression I think that many (most?) people consider anyone that overtakes them as driving dangerously quickly, and anyone that holds them up as driving ridiculously slowly. Either way they are a menace.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Leave your lights alone when overtaking. There's too much risk of a negative response from the overtaken car.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
Hmm, different Police Schools or now the general advice across all.
WhoseGeneration said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Leave your lights alone when overtaking. There's too much risk of a negative response from the overtaken car.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
Hmm, different Police Schools or now the general advice across all.
No hard & fast rules, but use of the headlamp flash is a subset skill all of it's own & one that invariably many find difficult to master. It's extremely useful where well timed & used appropriately. However where misused it's a source of antagonism that can lead to road rage.
At normal road speeds there are very few circumstances where I personally would consider it necessary or appropriate.
Vaux said:
tommundy said:
I too think that most people, from my experiences, would see a flash of the headlights as aggression, even if done in the 'safest' way.
How can this be seen as aggression on a SC road? All you're doing is saying "hello, I'm here and I'm going to overtake you."
It's not like you're closing on someone in lane 3 of a motorway and trying to flash him out of the way.
Can you really say that most people will see a flash of the headlights as "hello, I'm here and I'm going to overtake you" ? I really doubt it, and as R_U_LOCAL has said as I did, if you plan the overtake safely and with high awareness then there is no need for flashes or honks.
An example of when a flash is 100% understood by both parties would be something like an instance that happened to me last night. I was progressing along a 3 laned section of motorway, moving into lanes 1,2 and 3 when appropriate and there had been a car behind me making similar progress, I passed some cars that were in lane 2 and pulled back into lane 2 after the manouevre. The car behind didnt pull in but maintained a steady pace in lane 3, and as we approached some slower traffic in lane 2, I checked my mirrors, he maintained his speed, I pulled out and gave a hand up of appreciation and he gave a double flash. Perfect!
Sorry that story went on a bit, just wanted to show the difference between an understandable use of a flash and a very very grey area style of flash.
Cheers
Tom
Living in the Scottish highlands, I find that Lorry drivers greatly appreciate a flash before overtaking, you can usually see them check their mirrors once flashed.
Cars are bit different. Around here, especially in summer, we get lots of tourists. I generally won't flash a single car unless it is apparent that they haven't noticed my approach or presence and could be in danger of them wandering over the centre lines or cut a corner slightly. I would however flash a couple of cars if going to pass both, if one looked to be going to overtake but was hesitating. (I ususually give them plenty opportunity to overtake before committing to taking both). You can usually tell if their just hesitant or actually just tailgating with no intention of overtaking.
I drive all the time with dipped headlights as in winter, the light is usually poor and in summer nobody see's you. Even with dipped headlights, it is amazing the folk who don't notice you behind them.
I generally won't flash at night though, a much better signal is a short indicator flash, thats what I find.
Cars are bit different. Around here, especially in summer, we get lots of tourists. I generally won't flash a single car unless it is apparent that they haven't noticed my approach or presence and could be in danger of them wandering over the centre lines or cut a corner slightly. I would however flash a couple of cars if going to pass both, if one looked to be going to overtake but was hesitating. (I ususually give them plenty opportunity to overtake before committing to taking both). You can usually tell if their just hesitant or actually just tailgating with no intention of overtaking.
I drive all the time with dipped headlights as in winter, the light is usually poor and in summer nobody see's you. Even with dipped headlights, it is amazing the folk who don't notice you behind them.
I generally won't flash at night though, a much better signal is a short indicator flash, thats what I find.
OK, here's another related question.
How about if you're passing a long line of vehicles then?
I'll use a road near me as an example. There's a straight stretch of about a mile and a half, it can be very busy with freight. I've seen myself at the tail of a long queue with a slower moving HGV at the front at the beginning of the straight and noone ahead of me will overtake.
So let's say I want to pass 5+ cars at once. Perfectly doable on many an occassion. Once I've ascertained there's nothing coming, (either way!), I usually flash my main beam intermittently during the overtake to warn the queue that I'm coming.
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
How about if you're passing a long line of vehicles then?
I'll use a road near me as an example. There's a straight stretch of about a mile and a half, it can be very busy with freight. I've seen myself at the tail of a long queue with a slower moving HGV at the front at the beginning of the straight and noone ahead of me will overtake.
So let's say I want to pass 5+ cars at once. Perfectly doable on many an occassion. Once I've ascertained there's nothing coming, (either way!), I usually flash my main beam intermittently during the overtake to warn the queue that I'm coming.
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
Big Rod said:
So let's say I want to pass 5+ cars at once. Perfectly doable on many an occassion. Once I've ascertained there's nothing coming, (either way!), I usually flash my main beam intermittently during the overtake to warn the queue that I'm coming.
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
No problem with a single flash, if you were flashing 'intermittently' I would be thinking you were trying to pretend to be a police car.
imbecile said:
Big Rod said:
So let's say I want to pass 5+ cars at once. Perfectly doable on many an occassion. Once I've ascertained there's nothing coming, (either way!), I usually flash my main beam intermittently during the overtake to warn the queue that I'm coming.
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
No problem with a single flash, if you were flashing 'intermittently' I would be thinking you were trying to pretend to be a police car.
... or I would think you could also be a nutcase!
vonhosen said:
WhoseGeneration said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
Leave your lights alone when overtaking. There's too much risk of a negative response from the overtaken car.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
If you plan an overtake properly and execute it smoothly and without fuss, then there's no need for any headlightery or hornblowingness.
Hmm, different Police Schools or now the general advice across all.
No hard & fast rules, but use of the headlamp flash is a subset skill all of it's own & one that invariably many find difficult to master. It's extremely useful where well timed & used appropriately. However where misused it's a source of antagonism that can lead to road rage.
At normal road speeds there are very few circumstances where I personally would consider it necessary or appropriate.
Interesting perspectives from Reg and Vonhosen here.
I'd agree that (ime) headlights are rarely necessary on the approach to an overtake. After all, most overtakes are from a following position and you'll have had opportunity to form a view on the behaviour of the driver you intend to pass - whether they appear aware of your presence, are maintaining decent separation for your return, driving steadily or erratically...
But in a "momentum" overtake (one where you approach on the offside from a long way back to maintain the view), I'd suggest that using the headlights may be appropriate. The car you are closing on is more likely to be unaware of you, and you won't have had the same chance to form a view on the other driver's behaviour. The lights may antagonise them but, if used early, any evidence of reaction can help you determine whether it is appropriate to continue with the overtake or bow out gracefully.
WilliBetz
7db said:
Big Rod said:
Anyone see anything wrong with that? Would anyone get upset at me for doing that?
As with all signals it's the potential for being misunderstood that is the issue. What if one was looking to go and saw you "flash him out"?
That has crossed my mind from time to time, but only when I'm sharing the road with another driver keen to make progress. Then I'm more confident they'll be able to realise my intent and in that case I tend not to indicate to prevent any confusion.
However, because of the deportment of my car, (the fact that the bonnet's in the air!), 'he' should recognise my intentions. Many would, (and have), said that's all it should take, but indicating to the 'prey' of my presence I look on as a bit of a belt to go with the braces.
KieronSRi said:
And if you flashed me then went past me id stick my full beam on when you went past.
And how would that help the situation ?
Whatever the rights or wrongs of it, they've at least given the headlamp flash with good intent (i.e. trying to make sure you are aware of their presence to aid safety), whilst you've given it for only negative reasons & in no way likely to help the situation (i.e. only a rebuke).
Yes its a rebuke for blinding me but how am i to know youre flashing me to say youre going past me? As its not taught or in common use flashing to overtake someone will cause people to think WHAT THE IS THE IDIOT FLASHING ME FOR!!!(no insult meant to anyone on this forum just thats what would pop into my head).
IS THE IDIOT FLASHING ME FOR!!!(no insult meant to anyone on this forum just thats what would pop into my head).Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff