Question about overtaking.
Discussion
I'm going off this idea of giving a headlamp flash prior to overtaking, and even less do I like the idea of using the horn, as that is often taken to be aggressive. I know it shouldn't, but these days I'm afraid it sometimes does.
I can still see some merit in putting dipped headlights on well in advance, and leaving them on until the overtaking is completed, but I think the main thing to do is to concentrate (see other topic!) on trying to evaluate the behaviour of the overtakee (or overtakees) before you become committed.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I can still see some merit in putting dipped headlights on well in advance, and leaving them on until the overtaking is completed, but I think the main thing to do is to concentrate (see other topic!) on trying to evaluate the behaviour of the overtakee (or overtakees) before you become committed.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
KieronSRi said:
Yes its a rebuke for blinding me but how am i to know youre flashing me to say youre going past me? As its not taught or in common use flashing to overtake someone will cause people to think WHAT THE 
IS THE IDIOT FLASHING ME FOR!!!(no insult meant to anyone on this forum just thats what would pop into my head).
IS THE IDIOT FLASHING ME FOR!!!(no insult meant to anyone on this forum just thats what would pop into my head).The headlamp flash doesn't tell you they are coming past, it is however a common and acceptable way of giving information.
The only official reason for a headlamp flash is "to let others know you are there" where you believe there may be doubt as to whether they are aware. (Rule 90 of the Highway Code).
That's what someone may be doing prior to an overtake.
As I say it's a least something aimed positively in attempting to reduce risk in the following overtake.
Unlike where used as a rebuke which is only negative, may foster/promote further antagonism & is not only in contrast to what it said to be acceptable in rule 90, but could also amount to inconsiderate driving.
irm said:
Interesting replies cause when i suggested "lighting them up" as i was taught on and hp/advanced course
I got royally
ed by the "great" and all "knowledgeable" that contribute If it causes you no problems carry on, it is mentioned in Road craft I’ll find the exact page and phrase when I can be bothered
I'd say that is because the term "lighting them up" is ill advised as it doesn't adequtaely convey the intent, which is to make them aware of your presence (if they are not already) & ensure that any reaction to it is a positive one before committing.
As I said earlier headlamp flashing is something that is easy to abuse (which makes you look aggressive) & is a skill that many find difficult to master (because in most normal driving you won't get to practice it, as there is little need for it.)
The timing of any headlamp falsh is that it should be given in plenty of time & should certainly at least have been released some decent time prior to making that decision to go.
So how does the driver in front know what the flash is for? As far as im concerned flashing your headlights is an unacceptable way of communicating informantion as there are far to many variations in its use and it could mean one of many different things. And how do you know for sure the driver in front is going to understand what you mean. I wouldnt know that you flashing me meant your going to overtake. I do beleive in some circles its a way of letting someone know you want a race. Although i wouldnt do this you just never know. You should just stick to indicating with plenty of time for them to see you do so and overtake as normal in my opinion.
KieronSRi said:
So how does the driver in front know what the flash is for? As far as im concerned flashing your headlights is an unacceptable way of communicating informantion as there are far to many variations in its use and it could mean one of many different things. And how do you know for sure the driver in front is going to understand what you mean. I wouldnt know that you flashing me meant your going to overtake. I do beleive in some circles its a way of letting someone know you want a race. Although i wouldnt do this you just never know. You should just stick to indicating with plenty of time for them to see you do so and overtake as normal in my opinion.
For a start by knowing the highway code & therefore knowing what the accepted meaning of the headlamp flash is.
I repeat 'it does not mean I am going to overtake', it means 'I am here'
If you've seen it, it has served it's purpose.
It is an acceptable warning 'signal', just like brake lights or directional indicators.
All have an accepted meaning & form part of what we can reasonably expect from each other. Of course the signal (just like other signals) could still be misused or given inappropriately.
It is up to the person giving them to only give them appropriately & it is up to those observing them to know the accepted meanings, whilst at the same time not rely entirely upon them because of the potential for misuse. You should instead observe the signals & look for other evidence that would support it's message.
As it's an acceptable signal to give where you are in doubt as to whether someone is aware of your presence, it could justifiably be used in the preparation stages of an overtake where you believe others may not be aware you are there.
The far bigger sin is using the headlamp flash aggressively as a rebuke, for which in stark contrast, there is no reasonable justification.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 14:19
The problem with the misunderstanding of signals is that the roads are a constantly evolving and changing environment. Each country, and even each region has it's own idiosyncracies when it comes to road manners and how our actions and signals are interpreted. Simply saying "the highway code says" isn't always the best answer - a good driver can change their driving habits to meet the subleties of driving in different areas, and to meet the requirements brought on by changes in people's general understanding of signals.
Take France, for example. The first time I drove over there, I was struck with a signalling protocol that is used on the motorways. French drivers display far more lane discipline than their British counterparts, mainly because there is (I believe), a law which requires drivers to return to the nearside lane after an overtake. If you're behind a slower driver who is using an overtaking lane and they intend to stay in that lane to overtake another vehicle, they will leave their left-hand indicator on. This demonstrates that they're aware of your presence behind them, and that they'll move nearside as soon as it's safe to do so. Now, there is plenty wrong with how the French drive, but I really liked this little bit of road manners. Try introducing it over here though - I reckon it would take a generation for people to fully take it on board and adapt it.
Misunderstanding of headlight flash and horn use has developed over decades. Of course, it says that they're just signals to warn others of your presence in the Highway Code, but over a long period of time, they've generally been adopted as aggressive rebuking signals, rather than a simple warning.
A good driver should take this general change of attitude into account, which is why I'd never recommend a headlight flash during overtaking. Overtaking in itself seems to be becoming socially unnacceptable by a worryingly large minority of drivers, so if you encounter one of these "overtakeophobes", there's always a possiblity that passing them could elicit a bad response. Combine the overtake with a headlight flash or horn warning, and you could add to your problems, rather than reducing them.
Of course, it is the fault of the other driver for misunderstanding your signal, but as has been said a thousand times before, it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you've been injured.
Take France, for example. The first time I drove over there, I was struck with a signalling protocol that is used on the motorways. French drivers display far more lane discipline than their British counterparts, mainly because there is (I believe), a law which requires drivers to return to the nearside lane after an overtake. If you're behind a slower driver who is using an overtaking lane and they intend to stay in that lane to overtake another vehicle, they will leave their left-hand indicator on. This demonstrates that they're aware of your presence behind them, and that they'll move nearside as soon as it's safe to do so. Now, there is plenty wrong with how the French drive, but I really liked this little bit of road manners. Try introducing it over here though - I reckon it would take a generation for people to fully take it on board and adapt it.
Misunderstanding of headlight flash and horn use has developed over decades. Of course, it says that they're just signals to warn others of your presence in the Highway Code, but over a long period of time, they've generally been adopted as aggressive rebuking signals, rather than a simple warning.
A good driver should take this general change of attitude into account, which is why I'd never recommend a headlight flash during overtaking. Overtaking in itself seems to be becoming socially unnacceptable by a worryingly large minority of drivers, so if you encounter one of these "overtakeophobes", there's always a possiblity that passing them could elicit a bad response. Combine the overtake with a headlight flash or horn warning, and you could add to your problems, rather than reducing them.
Of course, it is the fault of the other driver for misunderstanding your signal, but as has been said a thousand times before, it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you've been injured.
R_U_LOCAL said:
The problem with the misunderstanding of signals is that the roads are a constantly evolving and changing environment. Each country, and even each region has it's own idiosyncracies when it comes to road manners and how our actions and signals are interpreted. Simply saying "the highway code says" isn't always the best answer - a good driver can change their driving habits to meet the subleties of driving in different areas, and to meet the requirements brought on by changes in people's general understanding of signals.
Take France, for example. The first time I drove over there, I was struck with a signalling protocol that is used on the motorways. French drivers display far more lane discipline than their British counterparts, mainly because there is (I believe), a law which requires drivers to return to the nearside lane after an overtake. If you're behind a slower driver who is using an overtaking lane and they intend to stay in that lane to overtake another vehicle, they will leave their left-hand indicator on. This demonstrates that they're aware of your presence behind them, and that they'll move nearside as soon as it's safe to do so. Now, there is plenty wrong with how the French drive, but I really liked this little bit of road manners. Try introducing it over here though - I reckon it would take a generation for people to fully take it on board and adapt it.
Misunderstanding of headlight flash and horn use has developed over decades. Of course, it says that they're just signals to warn others of your presence in the Highway Code, but over a long period of time, they've generally been adopted as aggressive rebuking signals, rather than a simple warning.
A good driver should take this general change of attitude into account, which is why I'd never recommend a headlight flash during overtaking. Overtaking in itself seems to be becoming socially unnacceptable by a worryingly large minority of drivers, so if you encounter one of these "overtakeophobes", there's always a possiblity that passing them could elicit a bad response. Combine the overtake with a headlight flash or horn warning, and you could add to your problems, rather than reducing them.
Of course, it is the fault of the other driver for misunderstanding your signal, but as has been said a thousand times before, it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you've been injured.
Take France, for example. The first time I drove over there, I was struck with a signalling protocol that is used on the motorways. French drivers display far more lane discipline than their British counterparts, mainly because there is (I believe), a law which requires drivers to return to the nearside lane after an overtake. If you're behind a slower driver who is using an overtaking lane and they intend to stay in that lane to overtake another vehicle, they will leave their left-hand indicator on. This demonstrates that they're aware of your presence behind them, and that they'll move nearside as soon as it's safe to do so. Now, there is plenty wrong with how the French drive, but I really liked this little bit of road manners. Try introducing it over here though - I reckon it would take a generation for people to fully take it on board and adapt it.
Misunderstanding of headlight flash and horn use has developed over decades. Of course, it says that they're just signals to warn others of your presence in the Highway Code, but over a long period of time, they've generally been adopted as aggressive rebuking signals, rather than a simple warning.
A good driver should take this general change of attitude into account, which is why I'd never recommend a headlight flash during overtaking. Overtaking in itself seems to be becoming socially unnacceptable by a worryingly large minority of drivers, so if you encounter one of these "overtakeophobes", there's always a possiblity that passing them could elicit a bad response. Combine the overtake with a headlight flash or horn warning, and you could add to your problems, rather than reducing them.
Of course, it is the fault of the other driver for misunderstanding your signal, but as has been said a thousand times before, it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you've been injured.
Have you ever used a headlamp flash in a covert car, where you didn't want to use the blues & twos at that time for operational reasons ?
Have you ever used, for instance, a headlamp flash in a covert car when traveling at high speed (without blues & twos) approaching slower moving vehicles that you intend to pass ?
If you have in any of those situations, what was the purpose of the flash ?
Now as I've said repeatedly I don't think there is much use for the headlamp flash under normal driving conditions, but it doesn't change what it is there for.
When I tend to use it is when I am traveling at high speed on motorways in a plain car. It is where I am looking to make far more progress than the other vehicles appear to making. It will be where there is a sizeable differential between me & the vehicle I am approaching in a more n/s lane. When I give it, it will not be a one second affair & more often than not it will also be accompanied by some speed loss, because if I am giving it there is concern in my mind that the vehicle in the n/s lane is going to change lanes infront of me & is not aware of my approach. When I give it, it is a case of "hello, I'm here, what are you going to do". Whatever they do I'll deal with it, it doesn't mean I'm coming through at all, if they pull out I'll immeadiately cancel it & match speed. By the time I arrive at the point of committment, at a differential I am happy with, it will already have been long since cancelled & I will be satisfied that they are no longer looking to change lanes. I will when passing, where possible, wave an acknowledgement for their observation & assistance in allowing my safe progress.
Every few years the highway code is updated to reflect what is considered currently acceptable. I know I was consulted in that process & I suspect you may have had a chance for input too. If you travel in a foreign country, it is prudent that you seek out what their local advice is, before you travel so as to minimise any misunderstanding. Whatever county we live in here, we all have the same highway code, the same definition of acceptable standards as expressed through the highway code or the offences of DWDCA or DD.
The fact a signal can be misused, or indeed frequently is, doesn't detract from it's intrinsic intentional value. Otherwise with the misuse (or lack of) of directional indicators that has developed over the years, we'd be done with it in this country & remove them altogether, instead relying on gesticulation from both parties post movement that appears to have built up over the years, because that's they way it's developed along with the same argument over misuse of the headlamp flash.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 15:18
Perhaps I've been too prescriptive in dismissing headlight flashes for overtakes, as I was referring to their use during overtakes on single carriageway roads. I do use headlight flash in un-marked cars if I'm trying to make progress, but I'm far less inclined to use it in my own car, as the speed differentials are usually far less than in a job car, and I've experienced some bad reactions on the motorway too - one clown brake tested me almost to a standstill, which wasn't much fun.
I accept your point though - used correctly i.e. from quite a long way back, and when the flashed vehicle has somewhere to go, then they're a useful aid when overtaking on the motorway. I stand by my advice for single-carriageway roads though - headlight flashes and horn warnings aren't signals that I use or teach.
I accept your point though - used correctly i.e. from quite a long way back, and when the flashed vehicle has somewhere to go, then they're a useful aid when overtaking on the motorway. I stand by my advice for single-carriageway roads though - headlight flashes and horn warnings aren't signals that I use or teach.
R_U_LOCAL said:
Perhaps I've been too prescriptive in dismissing headlight flashes for overtakes, as I was referring to their use during overtakes on single carriageway roads. I do use headlight flash in un-marked cars if I'm trying to make progress, but I'm far less inclined to use it in my own car, as the speed differentials are usually far less than in a job car, and I've experienced some bad reactions on the motorway too - one clown brake tested me almost to a standstill, which wasn't much fun.
I accept your point though - used correctly i.e. from quite a long way back, and when the flashed vehicle has somewhere to go, then they're a useful aid when overtaking on the motorway. I stand by my advice for single-carriageway roads though - headlight flashes and horn warnings aren't signals that I use or teach.
I accept your point though - used correctly i.e. from quite a long way back, and when the flashed vehicle has somewhere to go, then they're a useful aid when overtaking on the motorway. I stand by my advice for single-carriageway roads though - headlight flashes and horn warnings aren't signals that I use or teach.
In single carriageway roads the situations where I would use it are extremely rare, an example where I may, would be where I am looking to make progress, but I am behind a large vehicle in a narrower road. A vehicle that with intelligent positioning by the driver could allow me to safely pass, without inconvenience to him. If it appears that he is unaware of my presence (through his positioning & my observations of his head movemnents in his mirrors) I may consider giving the signal to alert him to my presence. When I am sure (from his mirrors) that he is aware of my positioning & presence that will invariably lead to a slight adjustment in his positioning & me safely passing with a thank you wave. If he chooses to see me, but not change position, I won't be giving further flashes & I will instead show both restraint & patience.
Of course we give our headlamp flash to make others aware of our presence (in the motorway example & the example above) where we are looking to make progress in unmarked cars. Anyone observing that may not know who we are, yet we considered it an acceptable appropraite use of the signal.
I've only championed appropriate use, but the intended meaning of the signal still remained the same in those discussed as both appropriate & inappropriate.
The appropriate use of the headlamp flash is just another of those skills in advanced driving where a little knowledge can often be a dangerous thing & have a detrimental rather than positive effect.
We use it appropriately where we are looking to make safe legal progress past others, as a means to make them aware of our presence & other people who wish to drive at similar progress levels to us (all be it illegally) may seek to use it for the same reasons/benefits that we did.
I will re-iterate though that the circumstances on SC roads where I consider it appropriate are rare. It should never be used as some form of security blanket such as "I've warned them I'm coming, so it's down to them now"
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 15:54
Wandering off the original topic somewhat, but it seems to me that this use of the headlamp flash to alert others to your presence, while matching the strict definitions in the highway code and elsewhere, is not how it is actually used by the general motoring public.
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
GreenV8S said:
Wandering off the original topic somewhat, but it seems to me that this use of the headlamp flash to alert others to your presence, while matching the strict definitions in the highway code and elsewhere, is not how it is actually used by the general motoring public.
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
As I said, if we do it on the basis of what the masses each interpret it as, we can re-write lane discipline, remove indicators, have rather more commonly used hand gestures that aren't just applicable to driving etc.
Alternatively we can have a highway code that suggests what we should all be doing to make our interactions safe & harmonious, rather than us all have our own interpretation of what a signal "should" mean.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 15:59
vonhosen said:
We use it appropriately where we are looking to make safe legal progress past others, as a means to make them aware of our presence & other people who wish to drive at similar progress levels to us (all be it illegally) may seek to use it for the same reasons/benefits that we did.
7db said:
vonhosen said:
We use it appropriately where we are looking to make safe legal progress past others, as a means to make them aware of our presence & other people who wish to drive at similar progress levels to us (all be it illegally) may seek to use it for the same reasons/benefits that we did.
But if you happen to be one of those people who drive with headlights on dipped beam all the time, does this not reduce the effectiveness of a headlight flash in daylight conditions?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
vonhosen said:
GreenV8S said:
Wandering off the original topic somewhat, but it seems to me that this use of the headlamp flash to alert others to your presence, while matching the strict definitions in the highway code and elsewhere, is not how it is actually used by the general motoring public.
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
As I said, if we do it on the basis of what the masses each interpret it as, we can re-write lane discipline, remove indicators, have rather more commonly used hand gestures that aren't just applicable to driving etc.
Alternatively we can have a highway code that suggests what we should all be doing to make our interactions safe & harmonious, rather than us all have our own interpretation of what a signal "should" mean.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 15:59
Quite agree with you there but until that happens it shoudlnt be used as it is open to mis-interpretation (Apologise for spelling on that one im guessing how its spelt).
KieronSRi said:
vonhosen said:
GreenV8S said:
Wandering off the original topic somewhat, but it seems to me that this use of the headlamp flash to alert others to your presence, while matching the strict definitions in the highway code and elsewhere, is not how it is actually used by the general motoring public.
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
My experience is that headlamp flashes are almost universally used to indicate that you're giving precedence. Occasionally they're used as a form of rebuke. Even more rarely they're used to alert others to your presence, but only (ime) in the case of a following vehicle where the sub-text is "I'm here and GET OUT OF MY WAY".
This common use is completely at odds with the highway code. Should the highway code be updated to reflect the current de-facto meaning?
As I said, if we do it on the basis of what the masses each interpret it as, we can re-write lane discipline, remove indicators, have rather more commonly used hand gestures that aren't just applicable to driving etc.
Alternatively we can have a highway code that suggests what we should all be doing to make our interactions safe & harmonious, rather than us all have our own interpretation of what a signal "should" mean.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 21st April 15:59
Quite agree with you there but until that happens it shoudlnt be used as it is open to mis-interpretation (Apologise for spelling on that one im guessing how its spelt).
What certainly shouldn't be used or advocated is the use of the headlamp flash as a rebuke, even if you think the other persons use was inappropriate. After all two wrongs don't make a right & there is (as I have already said) nothing positive at all in the intent with it's use.
vonhosen said:
As I said, if we do it on the basis of what the masses each interpret it as, we can re-write lane discipline, remove indicators, have rather more commonly used hand gestures that aren't just applicable to driving etc.
Is the English language defined by the grammar books, or the people who speak it? If I send you a signal it means whatever we agree it means.
When you give a signal, it is not a matter of consulting the 'code book' and picking the signal that fits your message, it's a matter of considering what interpretation the person/people receiving the signal are likely to place on it.
In my experience a headlamp flash is widely accepted to have specific meanings in certain circumstances. A very common one is to tell somebody in conflict with you that you are prepared to give them precedence. If you are approaching somebody waiting to turn across in front of you and you flash your headlamps, it should come as no surprise at all if they took that as an invitation to pull out in front of you. According to the HC that flash should only be interpreted as "I'm here" but in practice it means something very different. Given that it does mean that, regardless of what the HC says to the contrary, shouldn't the HC be changed to reflect this?
GreenV8S said:
vonhosen said:
As I said, if we do it on the basis of what the masses each interpret it as, we can re-write lane discipline, remove indicators, have rather more commonly used hand gestures that aren't just applicable to driving etc.
Is the English language defined by the grammar books, or the people who speak it? If I send you a signal it means whatever we agree it means.
When you give a signal, it is not a matter of consulting the 'code book' and picking the signal that fits your message, it's a matter of considering what interpretation the person/people receiving the signal are likely to place on it.
In my experience a headlamp flash is widely accepted to have specific meanings in certain circumstances. A very common one is to tell somebody in conflict with you that you are prepared to give them precedence. If you are approaching somebody waiting to turn across in front of you and you flash your headlamps, it should come as no surprise at all if they took that as an invitation to pull out in front of you. According to the HC that flash should only be interpreted as "I'm here" but in practice it means something very different. Given that it does mean that, regardless of what the HC says to the contrary, shouldn't the HC be changed to reflect this?
Yes, I think it should, but I appreciate that many people are unhappy about doing so, on the grounds that this kind of signal can be misinterpreted. This sort of 'After you, Peter' signal is now so widely used and acted upon safely that I think it's time it was officially recognised.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Wonderful to witness this exchange of views, especially between instructors.
I particularly relate to the assertion that headlights (if used at all) are only useful to gain evidence of reaction before commiting to an overtake. That way, if the driver ahead takes exception you can amend your plan accordingly. Of course, assuming the overtake is on and enables you to make differential progress, you aren't going to be around to witness any unorthodox signals they may care to make after the event...
One little anecdote on the theme of headlight usage as an aid to making progress...
Travelling along a dual carriageway in the outside lane, having passed one car and staying out to pass another a little way ahead, I become aware of the driver behind me using a headlight flash. They were some real distance back, and the flash was a proper counted indication. Immediately obvious that it was a trained driver, driving a non-descript car, and I'm happy to indicate and return to the nearside lane. Sure enough, the car has four occupants, three of whom are under instruction (I guess). No courtesy wave, which kind of confirms my guess (if the shirts didn't give it away first).
They make some progress away from me, but not a great deal as they become bogged down with traffic. Amusing thing is that we both want the same exit... The driver under tuition retires to join slow moving traffic in the nearside lane with about 500 metres to run before the exit, allowing me the heaven sent opportunity to legally, calmly and obviously pass them and still make the nearside lane with about 200 metres to run.
They draw alongside on the slip road. The driver listening intently to the front seat passenger who has something to say, while the rear seat passengers turn and grin at me...
WilliBetz
I particularly relate to the assertion that headlights (if used at all) are only useful to gain evidence of reaction before commiting to an overtake. That way, if the driver ahead takes exception you can amend your plan accordingly. Of course, assuming the overtake is on and enables you to make differential progress, you aren't going to be around to witness any unorthodox signals they may care to make after the event...
One little anecdote on the theme of headlight usage as an aid to making progress...
Travelling along a dual carriageway in the outside lane, having passed one car and staying out to pass another a little way ahead, I become aware of the driver behind me using a headlight flash. They were some real distance back, and the flash was a proper counted indication. Immediately obvious that it was a trained driver, driving a non-descript car, and I'm happy to indicate and return to the nearside lane. Sure enough, the car has four occupants, three of whom are under instruction (I guess). No courtesy wave, which kind of confirms my guess (if the shirts didn't give it away first).
They make some progress away from me, but not a great deal as they become bogged down with traffic. Amusing thing is that we both want the same exit... The driver under tuition retires to join slow moving traffic in the nearside lane with about 500 metres to run before the exit, allowing me the heaven sent opportunity to legally, calmly and obviously pass them and still make the nearside lane with about 200 metres to run.
They draw alongside on the slip road. The driver listening intently to the front seat passenger who has something to say, while the rear seat passengers turn and grin at me...
WilliBetz
Edited by willibetz on Saturday 21st April 22:03
TripleS said:
Yes, I think it should, but I appreciate that many people are unhappy about doing so, on the grounds that this kind of signal can be misinterpreted. This sort of 'After you, Peter' signal is now so widely used and acted upon safely that I think it's time it was officially recognised.
I disagree - I never give a signal to allow people presidence. That's not to say I never let people out - I'll always leave junctions clear in traffic and I'll regularly allow people out of junctions when its busy. What I don't do is signal them to pull out. It's also something I teach Police Officers not to do. People will blindly pull out of a junction if someone signals them to do so, and if a Police Officer waves them out and they have a bump, they can claim they were following Police directions. Much better just to leave them the space and allow them to make the decision themselves.
I don't like using headlight flash as a courtesy signal either. During the day, a wave from the left hand is fine, and at night-time, I briefly switch my headlights to sidelights and then back to dipped beam. I hate giving someone presidence and then being thanked by having my retinas burned out.
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