Serious/ fatal accidents
Discussion
Have you ever come across one, been in one or seen one? How did you react? Was there anything you thought you could have done more?
On Sunday I was with my parents and family and stopped at a set of traffic lights on a motorway roundabout, while the lights were green for those coming up the sliproad (m27 j7 at hedge end near southampton).
The lights changed and we were about to pull away when suddenly a 4x4 shot through the lights from the sliproad. I'm not sure of his speed but it was definitely over 50 mph. He went head on into the chevron sign and barrier.
A yellow Corsa then span repeatedly onto the roundabout, and two other cars also came onto the roundabout, both damaged.
I got out our car immediately and headed towards the yellow Corsa. My first thoughts were that no-one could have survived it as the car looked a total mess.
Then a young boy (10-12ish) got out the passenger door and started walking around it the road. I ran upto him and asked him if he was ok and if anything hurt like his back. He was crying and had cuts to his face but no other visible serious injuries. I got him out of the road and sat him down out the way of any hazards. I looked him over but he didn't look that bad (in shock but no clear serious injuries and he was walking) so I turned my attention to the others in the car.
There were three other people in the car, an older man who was driving, a young girl in the rear of the car (passenger side) and an old woman behind the driver. The man was unconscious but breathing. I initially thought the woman was dead, but the girl was crying and couldn't answer questions. Several other people appeared and were ont the phone for emergency services too, so I turned my attention to the other vehicle, the 4x4.
I ripped open the passenger door of the 4x4 and found there was only 1 person, the driver. Smoke was pouring through the air vents and dash so I first turned the ignition off and undid his seatbelt (in case I had to pull him out). He was conscious but couldn't talk, only move his eyes. He was gripping the steering wheel (though all airbags in the car had worked) and couldn't move. I didn't move him in case he had back injuries, but finally got him to tell me his name. I also gently tried moving his hand off the wheel. He let me take it off but when I let go of his hand he grabbed the wheel again, which showed he wasn't paralysed.
Someone said the older lady was dead but I noticed she was still the right colour and her lips were the right colour. I put my hand right under her nose and could feel her breath.
Paramedics then arrived and took control of the situation. I sat with the child and told the police what I saw. I also noticed then that the Corsa's ignition was still on even though there was a strong smell of petrol so I told the paramedics to turn it off.
The Fire & Rescue service arrived a little later, and tried cut open the corsa to try and remove the woman.
I think she died when the tried moving her with a strentcher, as I believe her neck was broken. The man was not seriously injured but just had facial injuries, while neither of the children was badly injured.
I then left the scene with my family. I think I did quite well at the time, although I still feel annoyed because I should have called for the F&RS as I don't think anyone else thought of it and so they took longer to come so maybe they could have saved her. I also wish I'd checked that she was breathing earlier because it might have helped.
I'm finding it a little hard to get some of the other images of her out my head now but I think I'm ok. I just wish I'd done more.
On Sunday I was with my parents and family and stopped at a set of traffic lights on a motorway roundabout, while the lights were green for those coming up the sliproad (m27 j7 at hedge end near southampton).
The lights changed and we were about to pull away when suddenly a 4x4 shot through the lights from the sliproad. I'm not sure of his speed but it was definitely over 50 mph. He went head on into the chevron sign and barrier.
A yellow Corsa then span repeatedly onto the roundabout, and two other cars also came onto the roundabout, both damaged.
I got out our car immediately and headed towards the yellow Corsa. My first thoughts were that no-one could have survived it as the car looked a total mess.
Then a young boy (10-12ish) got out the passenger door and started walking around it the road. I ran upto him and asked him if he was ok and if anything hurt like his back. He was crying and had cuts to his face but no other visible serious injuries. I got him out of the road and sat him down out the way of any hazards. I looked him over but he didn't look that bad (in shock but no clear serious injuries and he was walking) so I turned my attention to the others in the car.
There were three other people in the car, an older man who was driving, a young girl in the rear of the car (passenger side) and an old woman behind the driver. The man was unconscious but breathing. I initially thought the woman was dead, but the girl was crying and couldn't answer questions. Several other people appeared and were ont the phone for emergency services too, so I turned my attention to the other vehicle, the 4x4.
I ripped open the passenger door of the 4x4 and found there was only 1 person, the driver. Smoke was pouring through the air vents and dash so I first turned the ignition off and undid his seatbelt (in case I had to pull him out). He was conscious but couldn't talk, only move his eyes. He was gripping the steering wheel (though all airbags in the car had worked) and couldn't move. I didn't move him in case he had back injuries, but finally got him to tell me his name. I also gently tried moving his hand off the wheel. He let me take it off but when I let go of his hand he grabbed the wheel again, which showed he wasn't paralysed.
Someone said the older lady was dead but I noticed she was still the right colour and her lips were the right colour. I put my hand right under her nose and could feel her breath.
Paramedics then arrived and took control of the situation. I sat with the child and told the police what I saw. I also noticed then that the Corsa's ignition was still on even though there was a strong smell of petrol so I told the paramedics to turn it off.
The Fire & Rescue service arrived a little later, and tried cut open the corsa to try and remove the woman.
I think she died when the tried moving her with a strentcher, as I believe her neck was broken. The man was not seriously injured but just had facial injuries, while neither of the children was badly injured.
I then left the scene with my family. I think I did quite well at the time, although I still feel annoyed because I should have called for the F&RS as I don't think anyone else thought of it and so they took longer to come so maybe they could have saved her. I also wish I'd checked that she was breathing earlier because it might have helped.
I'm finding it a little hard to get some of the other images of her out my head now but I think I'm ok. I just wish I'd done more.
Leon t, it is very easy to be critical after the event. Sounds like you did more than enough, only thing i would say is look after yourself first, make sure it is safe before you get involved, its very easy to add to the casualties.
That junction is a nightmare for people jumping the reds and it had been raining heavily on Sat.
Have the police got your details to contact you for a statement if necessary as this will be a fatal RTI investigation.
It's only natural for this to be whizzing around in your head for a week or so but you will get over it.
That junction is a nightmare for people jumping the reds and it had been raining heavily on Sat.
Have the police got your details to contact you for a statement if necessary as this will be a fatal RTI investigation.
It's only natural for this to be whizzing around in your head for a week or so but you will get over it.
Edited by NCC1701 on Tuesday 15th May 21:12
You did fantastically well not to panic in such a situation and deal with things in an orderly and logical fashion. WELL DONE.
After watching a near miss on the motorway yesterday I was wondering to myself how I would react in a situation such as the one you faced. I would be proud if I had your approach to a stressful and potentially dangerous situation.
Good on you leon.
After watching a near miss on the motorway yesterday I was wondering to myself how I would react in a situation such as the one you faced. I would be proud if I had your approach to a stressful and potentially dangerous situation.
Good on you leon.
Leon,
A similar thing happened to me whilst I was on holiday in Tenerife. A 4x4 drove off a bridge in heavy rain, dropped 20 feet, flipped and killed all passengers apart from a young boy who was thrown clear.
Do not particularly want to go into great detail but it was pretty messy and the emergency services took some time to arrive.
Took me a little while to forget about it but it was still pretty gruesome.
Nothing you and I were able to do to prevent the accident and we both did what we could at the time.
You can be proud of your actions particularly as a lot of drivers would either have panicked or driven away without helping.
A similar thing happened to me whilst I was on holiday in Tenerife. A 4x4 drove off a bridge in heavy rain, dropped 20 feet, flipped and killed all passengers apart from a young boy who was thrown clear.
Do not particularly want to go into great detail but it was pretty messy and the emergency services took some time to arrive.
Took me a little while to forget about it but it was still pretty gruesome.
Nothing you and I were able to do to prevent the accident and we both did what we could at the time.
You can be proud of your actions particularly as a lot of drivers would either have panicked or driven away without helping.
Sounds like you did great!
As said before its safety first! You did really well switching off ignitions etc.
Also not moving anyone until specialist help arrives. This can be crucial as a simple turn of the head can be enough to damage a spinal cord in a C-Spine injury. Hard call if there is a risk of fire, explosion etc.
Don't dwell on what you might think you didn't do, but remind yourself what you did to help save others.
GB
As said before its safety first! You did really well switching off ignitions etc.
Also not moving anyone until specialist help arrives. This can be crucial as a simple turn of the head can be enough to damage a spinal cord in a C-Spine injury. Hard call if there is a risk of fire, explosion etc.
Don't dwell on what you might think you didn't do, but remind yourself what you did to help save others.
GB
Well done Leon!! Its nice to know that there are people out there who will help as much as you did!!
Dont beat yourself up to much about it...
You got a child off of the road and in to a safe position and also got him calmed down..
You had the thought to switch the ignition off on the vehicles involced..
You ignored the crying woman and went to the ones who were silent..
Some people wouldnt even be able to do that much either through fear or just not knowing what to do.
I bet if you replay events in your mind the time from you first stepping in to help to the time the emergency services arrived was <5 minutes but seemed like an absolute age.
Dont beat yourself up to much about it...
You got a child off of the road and in to a safe position and also got him calmed down..
You had the thought to switch the ignition off on the vehicles involced..
You ignored the crying woman and went to the ones who were silent..
Some people wouldnt even be able to do that much either through fear or just not knowing what to do.
I bet if you replay events in your mind the time from you first stepping in to help to the time the emergency services arrived was <5 minutes but seemed like an absolute age.
Well done Leon, sounds pretty horrendous.
The first thing we were always taught on first aid courses, as many here have already said, is the first thing to do is make sure you're safe, don't make the situation worse by adding another casualty.
You stayed calm and did the right things, doesn't sound like you could have done any more.
The first thing we were always taught on first aid courses, as many here have already said, is the first thing to do is make sure you're safe, don't make the situation worse by adding another casualty.
You stayed calm and did the right things, doesn't sound like you could have done any more.
Along with all the other people who have replied I agree that you have done a wonderful job. You truly deserve recognition for dealing with a situation few are equiped to deal with - including myself.
For what it is worth I believe that people generally do not think but act on instinct, training and common sense coupled with the need to help others in extreme difficulty. Fortunately, I have never been in such a scenario and wish I never am. Reality however dictates that as road users we are all likely to have to deal with an RTA of some description.
Spurred on by a totally unconnected reason, I took a first aid at work course as opposed to a standard 1st aid course. The difference is that my employer paid for it and I had a three year ticket to carry out 1st aid on work colleagues when necessary. Whilst that ticket has lapsed and I have changed job, the basic training is still there. The most important thing I learnt applicable to this situation is "DRABC". This stands for Danger - Response - Airway - Breathing - Circulation and is the sequence a 1st aider or medical person should use on initially suspecting injuries. It does make sense. In practice on approach to a potentially injured person in any situation, you first check for danger, initially to your self and then that of the injured party. Having satisfied there is no immediate danger - or isolated it, you speak or shout at the person preferably using their name if possible. The reason is that human beings always try to respond in some way. Next in line is to check the airway is clear, that the person is breathing and that there is good circulation by checking their pulse. If you like it is the "IPSGA" of 1st aid. This takes seconds and should provide the basis of identifying who is in greatest need of help in such a scenario as described. Where readily obvious. always check out those who are making no obvious movement or noise. Someone running around screaming at the top of their voice may be damned annoying when trying to help but they represent a somewhat reduced risk of being fatally injured.
I would recomend anyone do a 1st aid course. It is the unexpected situations like this that your hidden skills will be of greatest use.
For what it is worth I believe that people generally do not think but act on instinct, training and common sense coupled with the need to help others in extreme difficulty. Fortunately, I have never been in such a scenario and wish I never am. Reality however dictates that as road users we are all likely to have to deal with an RTA of some description.
Spurred on by a totally unconnected reason, I took a first aid at work course as opposed to a standard 1st aid course. The difference is that my employer paid for it and I had a three year ticket to carry out 1st aid on work colleagues when necessary. Whilst that ticket has lapsed and I have changed job, the basic training is still there. The most important thing I learnt applicable to this situation is "DRABC". This stands for Danger - Response - Airway - Breathing - Circulation and is the sequence a 1st aider or medical person should use on initially suspecting injuries. It does make sense. In practice on approach to a potentially injured person in any situation, you first check for danger, initially to your self and then that of the injured party. Having satisfied there is no immediate danger - or isolated it, you speak or shout at the person preferably using their name if possible. The reason is that human beings always try to respond in some way. Next in line is to check the airway is clear, that the person is breathing and that there is good circulation by checking their pulse. If you like it is the "IPSGA" of 1st aid. This takes seconds and should provide the basis of identifying who is in greatest need of help in such a scenario as described. Where readily obvious. always check out those who are making no obvious movement or noise. Someone running around screaming at the top of their voice may be damned annoying when trying to help but they represent a somewhat reduced risk of being fatally injured.
I would recomend anyone do a 1st aid course. It is the unexpected situations like this that your hidden skills will be of greatest use.
jaguarnut said:
The most important thing I learnt applicable to this situation is "DRABC". This stands for Danger - Response - Airway - Breathing - Circulation and is the sequence a 1st aider or medical person should use on initially suspecting injuries. It does make sense. In practice on approach to a potentially injured person in any situation, you first check for danger, initially to your self and then that of the injured party. Having satisfied there is no immediate danger - or isolated it, you speak or shout at the person preferably using their name if possible. The reason is that human beings always try to respond in some way. Next in line is to check the airway is clear, that the person is breathing and that there is good circulation by checking their pulse. If you like it is the "IPSGA" of 1st aid. This takes seconds and should provide the basis of identifying who is in greatest need of help in such a scenario as described. Where readily obvious. always check out those who are making no obvious movement or noise. Someone running around screaming at the top of their voice may be damned annoying when trying to help but they represent a somewhat reduced risk of being fatally injured.
DRABC has been dropped now, although DANGER and RESPONSE are still the key elements. To summarise:
Danger: to yourself, others nearby, and the casualty (in that order)
Response: based around AVPU (alert, responds to voice, responds to pain, unconsious)
Checking for airway and circulation has been dropped because if someone is breathing their airway is open, and circulation (which was changed to signs of life) has been dropped because too many can't find a pulse on a perfectly healthy person, let alone an unconsious one!
Breathing is still checked in the same way: see, hear, feel. However you are now looking for normal breathing. If the casualty isn't breathing normally then you go to CPR.
CPR has now changed to 30 compressions:2 breathes. Assuming you are alone this has now been split on the basis of whether the casualty appears to have any injuries, on the assumption that if they don't, and they are unconsious its probably a heart attack. So if they do have injuries its 1 minute of CPR, then call 999/112, then CPR until emergency ser vices arrive. If they dont appear to have other injuries then call 999/112 immediately because the quicker they get a defibrulator the better, then CPR. Obviously if you are with someone else, one of you should call the emergency services straight away.
Please note I am not a first aid instructor, but I renewed by (RYA) first aid qualification a couple of weeks ago and that is taken from the notes I made then.
jaguarnut said:
I would recomend anyone do a 1st aid course. It is the unexpected situations like this that your hidden skills will be of greatest use.
Yep definitely worth doing, a basic one can be done in 1 or 2 days and are usually cheap.
editted to add: Well done to the OP, sounds like you handled the situation admirably.
Edited by hugh_ on Wednesday 16th May 14:53
My thanks to Hugh who has given the latest views in first aid. I will have to get that knowledge buried in my brains now! I did my basic training with the St John Ambulance and during my course it was stated that the way circumstances were dealt with had changed. Clearly they have again. He has perhaps highlighted the need for occasional refresher training!
The point however is that whatever the training, it is current at the time and is designed to save a life. In a nasty scenario such as that given here, it is that training that will give any individual the added knowledge to act quickly, to identify those in most need of help, prioritise one's effort whilst others without 1st aid skills (assuming there are any!) can equally be useful in summoning emergency services or comforting other casualties.
The point however is that whatever the training, it is current at the time and is designed to save a life. In a nasty scenario such as that given here, it is that training that will give any individual the added knowledge to act quickly, to identify those in most need of help, prioritise one's effort whilst others without 1st aid skills (assuming there are any!) can equally be useful in summoning emergency services or comforting other casualties.
leon_t said:
Have you ever come across one, been in one or seen one? How did you react? Was I think I did quite well at the time, although I still feel annoyed because I should have called for the F&RS as I don't think anyone else thought of it and so they took longer to come so maybe they could have saved her. I also wish I'd checked that she was breathing earlier because it might have helped.
I'm finding it a little hard to get some of the other images of her out my head now but I think I'm ok. I just wish I'd done more.
I'm finding it a little hard to get some of the other images of her out my head now but I think I'm ok. I just wish I'd done more.
It's been said a couple of times already but you've did fantastic indeed.
Obviously in my job i come across a lot of serious/fatal accidents and i've seen a lot of different reactions by bystanders.
Sometimes everybody just drives past and nobody seems to care, other times you've got people kicking in the doods/windows rambo style and draggin the passengers out, not worring about the possible damage they might be causing.
Don't try to talk yourself into blame, if the woman really had broken her neck there wasn't anything more you could have done at that time, and the fire dep. arriving a couple minutes earlier wouldn't have made a difference either.
You kept your head cool and did everything you could do, and you did it really well.
Sometimes people who witness these sorts of accidents keep them in their head for quite a while. If you feel you can't stop thinking about it and just want to know how everything ended for the other passengers you can give the police a call and explain the situation, they might be able to help you.
They can also arrange for someone you can talk to if you feel you need it, because sometimes it's not just the victoms of the accident who have problems dealing with it but bystanders and people who helped out as well.
Thanks for all the comments. It was strange it that at the time, I did really feel any fear or panic, I think it may have been down to the fact that as I was almost asleep before the accident I wasn't stressed.
I even felt calm enough to try and contact the boy's parents, although in some ways I think I was fortunate in the fact they didn't answer their phone when I called it, so I didn't have to tell them. I gave the phone number to the police who got hold of the a few minutes later.
It was only after the emergency services were there and I stopped having much to do that I realised I was in a bit of shock because I started shaking a little and couldn't think as straight.
I had done a first aid course for work about two years ago so I think that why I was ok for a First Aid side of things, but the main thing was that only last week I'd been reading the bit in the IAM 'how to be an advanced driver' book about dealing with accidents, so that was quite fresh in my mind.
I usually carry a fluorescent waistcoat in my car just in case something like this happens but I was in my parents car instead.
I was shaken up a little when I got home (I only live around 2 minutes away) but I've not been too bad. A few images are still stuck in my mind, but in general I'm ok. Only after the accident did I realise quite how bad it had been.
The police have the details for my whole family and my name but I didn't see a massive amount of the first impact between the 4x4 and the corsa, only the 4x4 hitting the sign and the corsa spinning and hitting the other cars.
I think someone who first checked the woman over before tried to find a pulse and couldn't so said she didn't have one, which is part of the reason it caught my eye that she hadn't changed colour much, hence why I checked to see if she was breathing.
I even felt calm enough to try and contact the boy's parents, although in some ways I think I was fortunate in the fact they didn't answer their phone when I called it, so I didn't have to tell them. I gave the phone number to the police who got hold of the a few minutes later.
It was only after the emergency services were there and I stopped having much to do that I realised I was in a bit of shock because I started shaking a little and couldn't think as straight.
I had done a first aid course for work about two years ago so I think that why I was ok for a First Aid side of things, but the main thing was that only last week I'd been reading the bit in the IAM 'how to be an advanced driver' book about dealing with accidents, so that was quite fresh in my mind.
I usually carry a fluorescent waistcoat in my car just in case something like this happens but I was in my parents car instead.
I was shaken up a little when I got home (I only live around 2 minutes away) but I've not been too bad. A few images are still stuck in my mind, but in general I'm ok. Only after the accident did I realise quite how bad it had been.
The police have the details for my whole family and my name but I didn't see a massive amount of the first impact between the 4x4 and the corsa, only the 4x4 hitting the sign and the corsa spinning and hitting the other cars.
hugh_ said:
Checking for airway and circulation has been dropped because if someone is breathing their airway is open, and circulation (which was changed to signs of life) has been dropped because too many can't find a pulse on a perfectly healthy person, let alone an unconsious one!
Breathing is still checked in the same way: see, hear, feel. However you are now looking for normal breathing. If the casualty isn't breathing normally then you go to CPR.
Breathing is still checked in the same way: see, hear, feel. However you are now looking for normal breathing. If the casualty isn't breathing normally then you go to CPR.
I think someone who first checked the woman over before tried to find a pulse and couldn't so said she didn't have one, which is part of the reason it caught my eye that she hadn't changed colour much, hence why I checked to see if she was breathing.
Edited by leon_t on Wednesday 16th May 19:56
Leon,
Don't underestimate the effect something like this will have on you, you will spend a week or two thinking of little else, maybe longer. You will never forget it but time will help provide some prospective.
You did well bud, if god forbid I was caught up in something like this I would hope that there are people like you about.
Don't underestimate the effect something like this will have on you, you will spend a week or two thinking of little else, maybe longer. You will never forget it but time will help provide some prospective.
You did well bud, if god forbid I was caught up in something like this I would hope that there are people like you about.
Thanks for sharing it with us and it sounds like you did all of the right things. I have been lucky in my 3-4 years as a BiB and have only attended one fatal accident.
The worst thing about the whole incident was feeling completely helpless waiting for an ambulance. Only one casualty, I was there on my own with some bystanders, and the pedestrian hit by the car was just lain on the road, breathing but with such a massive head injury that there was only ever one outcome. There is no "First Aid" appropriate and the driver who hit him, no fault attached whatsoever, was in pieces.
Talk about it, it helps.
The worst thing about the whole incident was feeling completely helpless waiting for an ambulance. Only one casualty, I was there on my own with some bystanders, and the pedestrian hit by the car was just lain on the road, breathing but with such a massive head injury that there was only ever one outcome. There is no "First Aid" appropriate and the driver who hit him, no fault attached whatsoever, was in pieces.
Talk about it, it helps.
It sounds like you did everything you could have done in the situation. Well done, and try not to run through the scenario over and over. Collisions are going to happen, and people will be injured. You have to accept that and move on eventually.
THe only serious accident I've come across off duty, I got to a few minutes after it had happened. An off duty fireman had already arrived and completely ballsed up the situation.
Casualties were out of vehicles and wandering around in fields, he hadn't phoned ambulances, and he had his head stuck under a bonnet trying to disconnect a battery when a pregnant female was sitting in the middle of the road in shock.
I tried to do my best to rescue the situation, but as soon as the mum of one of the drivers turned up in her 60K Range rover and the Fireman got her son to sit in the back of it, I realised it was a losing battle!
Well done, please don't dwell on it, and if it does start to bug you then take a refreshed First Aid course and possibly an advanced driving courrse so that you're better prepared for situations like this, both dealing with them, and avoiding them!
THe only serious accident I've come across off duty, I got to a few minutes after it had happened. An off duty fireman had already arrived and completely ballsed up the situation.
Casualties were out of vehicles and wandering around in fields, he hadn't phoned ambulances, and he had his head stuck under a bonnet trying to disconnect a battery when a pregnant female was sitting in the middle of the road in shock.
I tried to do my best to rescue the situation, but as soon as the mum of one of the drivers turned up in her 60K Range rover and the Fireman got her son to sit in the back of it, I realised it was a losing battle!
Well done, please don't dwell on it, and if it does start to bug you then take a refreshed First Aid course and possibly an advanced driving courrse so that you're better prepared for situations like this, both dealing with them, and avoiding them!
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