Advanced driver qualifications
Discussion
BOF said:
With IAM and RoSPA, a lot depends on the Observer doing the course..we are volunteers and some have more experience than others...just like plumbers or dentists.
With regard to insurance savings, it is a skill for life as mentioned above and you savings might come from retaining your no claim bonus - or your life.
An advantage of RoSPA is that you are retested every three years and get a 3 page detailed report - I got Silver first time...worked on the criticisms and got and retained Gold...even as a Senior IAM Observer, I 'tighten up' my Roadcraft for the retest.
A very rough chart of the levels of further education is...
Whether you go for IAM or RoSPA or HPC, ANY interest in improving your safety and enjoyment is worth the effort.
BOF.
PS - Anyone wishing to have a copy of the/my RoSPA test report - feel free to e mail me.
There is no mention of the "standard response" police qualification which, AIUI, is considered broadly equivalent to HPC Gold.With regard to insurance savings, it is a skill for life as mentioned above and you savings might come from retaining your no claim bonus - or your life.
An advantage of RoSPA is that you are retested every three years and get a 3 page detailed report - I got Silver first time...worked on the criticisms and got and retained Gold...even as a Senior IAM Observer, I 'tighten up' my Roadcraft for the retest.
A very rough chart of the levels of further education is...
Whether you go for IAM or RoSPA or HPC, ANY interest in improving your safety and enjoyment is worth the effort.
BOF.
PS - Anyone wishing to have a copy of the/my RoSPA test report - feel free to e mail me.
Edited by BOF on Saturday 26th May 18:01
Edited by BOF on Saturday 26th May 18:05
BOF said:
A very rough chart of the levels of further education is...
The chart is roughly correct but...IAM observers are not above RoSPA Gold. Some may be but as general rule they are not. The IAM observer qualification is not primarily about your own driving, it is about observing others. As such they fit pretty much on a par with or slightly above other IAM members.
BOF said:
Whether you go for IAM or RoSPA or HPC, ANY interest in improving your safety and enjoyment is worth the effort.
On that we agree.Edited by Strangely Brown on Tuesday 29th May 20:21
Hi again,
What does it matter? IMO, standards are largely irrelevant. The more important thing is that the advanced driving community fosters a culture of lifelong learning.
The advanced car driving community has this apalling focus on tests and standards. This culture serves to put off many drivers from taking advanced training. Who wants to take another driving test, for goodness sake? What's more important is that people continue to learn - lets encourage training, not testing.
Equally, IAM Observer/Senior Observer and RoSPA Diploma don't belong on this chart. These are coaching qualifications, not solely related to driving ability. The bare minimum standard of driving to be an IAM Senior Observer is ... IAM test pass standard.* In reality, of course, IAM Staff Examiners will ensure that Senior Observers are above that. But this does go to show that not everything fits on the same scale.
As for HPC, there are now different streams of road and track "higher awards". Even the higher road driving awards require track and night driving certifications as prerequesites. So you can't easily pigeon hole the HPC higher awards.
* Before hoards of IAM Observers start flaming me, I was formerly involved at IAM Regional level.
What does it matter? IMO, standards are largely irrelevant. The more important thing is that the advanced driving community fosters a culture of lifelong learning.
The advanced car driving community has this apalling focus on tests and standards. This culture serves to put off many drivers from taking advanced training. Who wants to take another driving test, for goodness sake? What's more important is that people continue to learn - lets encourage training, not testing.ipsg.glf said:
There is no mention of the "standard response" police qualification which, AIUI, is considered broadly equivalent to HPC Gold.
Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.Equally, IAM Observer/Senior Observer and RoSPA Diploma don't belong on this chart. These are coaching qualifications, not solely related to driving ability. The bare minimum standard of driving to be an IAM Senior Observer is ... IAM test pass standard.* In reality, of course, IAM Staff Examiners will ensure that Senior Observers are above that. But this does go to show that not everything fits on the same scale.
As for HPC, there are now different streams of road and track "higher awards". Even the higher road driving awards require track and night driving certifications as prerequesites. So you can't easily pigeon hole the HPC higher awards.
* Before hoards of IAM Observers start flaming me, I was formerly involved at IAM Regional level.
SVS said:
Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.
I imagine that the key difference between a HPC gold driver and a standard response is that the former places much more emphasis on smoothness than perhaps the latter.I believe that both Andy Morrison and Clive Jones put forward the view that HPC gold is equivalent to a standard response pass. Who are we to argue?
ipsg.glf said:
SVS said:
Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.
I imagine that the key difference between a HPC gold driver and a standard response is that the former places much more emphasis on smoothness than perhaps the latter.I believe that both Andy Morrison and Clive Jones put forward the view that HPC gold is equivalent to a standard response pass. Who are we to argue?
As it's also primarily the reason behind the training for Standard Response, I don't personally see the point in trying to do comparisons.
But then I've also got no idea what the competency standard for an IAM pass is, let alone HPC Gold.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 30th May 06:43
vonhosen said:
I'd imagine that the key difference between HPC Gold & Standard Response is the blues & twos (which requires a very different approach to normal driving).
I was told by my tame retired police examiner that the higher awards in the various organisations are far as any member of the public can go and at the higher end of that [very short] scale is about the same as a good, standard divisional driver. The problem then is that no facilities exist to train beyond that level on UK roads. Anything that requires driving with two-and-blues or with exemptions is therefore unattainable.Any comparisons beyond HPC Gold, Club Driving Honours etc. are therefore somewhat pointless.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Wednesday 30th May 07:21
My father held a ROSPA Gold for several years. Some time ago, I did the IAM thing in Plymouth. My examiner turned out to be the same guy who tested Dad years previously!
I certainly agree that the training is the important issue - the test just gives something to strive for and a minimum standard to obtain. Personaly I told my Observer (who did both IAM & RoSPA) that I did not want just to pass, but to be certain that I would fly through! Seems that I did as there was little to report from the de-brief afterwards, and that only after I really pressed the point that there is never a perfect drive!
I certainly agree that the training is the important issue - the test just gives something to strive for and a minimum standard to obtain. Personaly I told my Observer (who did both IAM & RoSPA) that I did not want just to pass, but to be certain that I would fly through! Seems that I did as there was little to report from the de-brief afterwards, and that only after I really pressed the point that there is never a perfect drive!
ipsg.glf said:
SVS said:
said:
Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.
I imagine that the key difference between a HPC gold driver and a standard response is that the former places much more emphasis on smoothness than perhaps the latter.
I believe that both Andy Morrison and Clive Jones put forward the view that HPC gold is equivalent to a standard response pass. Who are we to argue?Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.
I imagine that the key difference between a HPC gold driver and a standard response is that the former places much more emphasis on smoothness than perhaps the latter.
I am equally disinterested in "ranking" IAM, RoSPA, HPC and their various sub-levels. I've done all the tests from all of these organisations and care not one wit about which is better than the other. I've done them only to get a wide range of experience from a wide range of instructors and examiners in pursuit of developing my driving.
I commend the OP for the interest in improvement - personally, I would recommend going with an a local group or instructor that you feel most at home with, ie from whom you feel you will learn best. Whether this is IAM, RoSPA or another route should not really matter.
If anyone is interested in the fully documented HPC standards, they can be found at http://hpc.org.uk/standards/index.html .
Kind regards
Steve
I found off Forum that Chris is in Chelmsford - I have suggested he might take a look at our refunding the £75 for 21 and unders and £40 for Under 26s in the IAM - £12 books supplied free of charge.
Even if his main interest is in RoSPA or further up the line, a grounding in Roadcraft (Free) is not a bad idea?
BOF
Even if his main interest is in RoSPA or further up the line, a grounding in Roadcraft (Free) is not a bad idea?
BOF
Will definitely look into it - so as an under 26 I'd pay the £75 subscription and then get refunded part of that when I become a full member or something?
Would definitely be interested in looking into it.
First of all, I hear an ex police instructor is running skid pan courses in Kelvedon for very good rates, might start off with that. Done a similar course through work, but this costs less than a night out for the whole day, so might be a good refresher.
Would definitely be interested in looking into it.
First of all, I hear an ex police instructor is running skid pan courses in Kelvedon for very good rates, might start off with that. Done a similar course through work, but this costs less than a night out for the whole day, so might be a good refresher.
You will pay £75 and get £40 refund after you pass.
The Kelvedon skid pan is joint owned by the ex Class 1 who tested me as Observer...we have a subsidised session there soon - think it is around £25.
Contact through the website or phone the Secretary, you might get on the session if you are joining.
BOF.
The Kelvedon skid pan is joint owned by the ex Class 1 who tested me as Observer...we have a subsidised session there soon - think it is around £25.
Contact through the website or phone the Secretary, you might get on the session if you are joining.
BOF.
Edited by BOF on Thursday 31st May 14:04
944_Nick said:
Chris
You would be made very welcome at the Chelmsford Group and I'm pretty certain you'd enjoy the course a lot - and get a great deal from it.
If you want to come out for an informal drive with me to see what sort of things you would be learning, feel free to PM me.
regards
Nick
Chris,You would be made very welcome at the Chelmsford Group and I'm pretty certain you'd enjoy the course a lot - and get a great deal from it.
If you want to come out for an informal drive with me to see what sort of things you would be learning, feel free to PM me.
regards
Nick
You should not overlook this offer
Stuart
vonhosen said:
ipsg.glf said:
SVS said:
Not so. This is a prime example of why the "qualifications" chart isn't meaningful. In some areas, an HPC Gold driver will be considerably ahead of a police "standard" course graduate. However, the police "standard" driver will be trained in a number of skills that the HPC driver won't know. Although there's substantial overlap, you aren't comparing like with like.
I imagine that the key difference between a HPC gold driver and a standard response is that the former places much more emphasis on smoothness than perhaps the latter.I believe that both Andy Morrison and Clive Jones put forward the view that HPC gold is equivalent to a standard response pass. Who are we to argue?
As it's also primarily the reason behind the training for Standard Response, I don't personally see the point in trying to do comparisons.
But then I've also got no idea what the competency standard for an IAM pass is, let alone HPC Gold.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 30th May 06:43
Regards
Rob
Edited by Relaxitscool on Saturday 16th June 20:15
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