Being Overtaken
Discussion
7db said:
I am, however, increasingly concerned that a bumpy road and a habit of running with lights on might be intimidating for some overtakees. I switched off for a few yesterday once they had acquired me.
Good move 
Low beam lights, especially Xenons, are effective for letting the driver(s) in front know that you mean business but it is intimidating too.
To me, Xenons mean that a top end spec and engined car is coming, with the power to make good progress.
I feel the same way as most of the people who have posted, I always feel warm inside when somebody keeps left to acknowledge that I want to overtake so I duly do the same when I can tell that the person behind me wants to pass, whether they're being an arse and tailgating or if they come up behind with some pace and are checking the road in front... If they've been polite, or are a biker (they rarely don't want to pass) I usually give a few clicks left on the indicator, never when there's a junction coming though.
What are people's views about using the indicator to tell people behind that you're 'willing' to let them pass? I'm happy to see it from other motorists because it makes me think that they know I'm there, at least, but is it good motoring, or not???
Also, if someone's acted politely to let me pass I always raise my left hand as a thankyou. I refrain from giving the thumbs-up in case it looks like I'm giving them the finger...
What are people's views about using the indicator to tell people behind that you're 'willing' to let them pass? I'm happy to see it from other motorists because it makes me think that they know I'm there, at least, but is it good motoring, or not???
Also, if someone's acted politely to let me pass I always raise my left hand as a thankyou. I refrain from giving the thumbs-up in case it looks like I'm giving them the finger...
i had this a few weeks back - driving my 'economical' (read slow) car back from work, this prick in a bora is right up my ass through the whole of a 50 section, and i'm doing 50. at the nsl i speed up, nothing in front of me and i know the road but i'm just cruising at 70 or so, he's still right there, so i check it's clear in front, pull slightly to the left, signal once and he overtakes, then as soon as he's in front, brakes and sticks solidly to 60 for the rest of the road!
what has he achieved!? the only thing i can think is that he was showing off how fast his car was, cos he could overtake me (in a 1.1 cinquecento when i let him past...)
apart from that one occasion, i've never been bothered about people overtaking me - why should i. they want to drive quicker than i do, fair enough i say. and if they're a decent considerate driver, i'll help them past.
what has he achieved!? the only thing i can think is that he was showing off how fast his car was, cos he could overtake me (in a 1.1 cinquecento when i let him past...)
apart from that one occasion, i've never been bothered about people overtaking me - why should i. they want to drive quicker than i do, fair enough i say. and if they're a decent considerate driver, i'll help them past.
I like the drivers in Piston Head. You have more class than any where else on the net. Good job!
I have a question about this dangerous practice of helping a driver pass. I pass all of the time, dry, rain or snow. It is nothing personal, I just drive at my own pace. Steer around obstacles until I reach the realm of the densely packed and have to wait.
My favorite pass is a constant velocity pass, where you smoothly steer out around the moving obstruction and back. No braking, no change in forward momentum, just a smooth in and out. The safest thing for me is if the driver being passed maintains a steady course and speed.
In olden times when we shot projectiles at moving targets it was like an arrow. We shot and if the target maintained it's present course we hit it. With the advent of sea to air ballistic missiles, it became necessary to have the arrow, constantly reevaluate its position and reorientate itself on the target as it flew.
When you pull out to pass, you are passing one car at a time, even if there is a line of twenty. You safely pass the first one. Then if conditions are ideal you may decide to take another one out before you pull back in. It is not until you are out there that you can make this decision safely.
Similarly, when you are passing each car your point of no return is when the front of your car can still pull in behind the driver being passed, because they are locked in or going to slow.
If this driver being passed slows down more, he reduces the area to the point of no return, sometimes forcing the passing driver to try to make a pass they would have otherwise aborted. If they have to get back in to avoid a head on, you may be hit on your side. Pushing you is safer than taking a head on because you got in his way and blocked his retreat. That is you being pushed out of the way by the passing driver.
This would not have occurred if you had been awake earlier, an driving at a faster pace, or just maintained your personal constant speed. If the overtaking driver is competent there is no way you can help by altering your velocity.
So my question is. “How are you helping a driver pass you?"
I have a question about this dangerous practice of helping a driver pass. I pass all of the time, dry, rain or snow. It is nothing personal, I just drive at my own pace. Steer around obstacles until I reach the realm of the densely packed and have to wait.
My favorite pass is a constant velocity pass, where you smoothly steer out around the moving obstruction and back. No braking, no change in forward momentum, just a smooth in and out. The safest thing for me is if the driver being passed maintains a steady course and speed.
In olden times when we shot projectiles at moving targets it was like an arrow. We shot and if the target maintained it's present course we hit it. With the advent of sea to air ballistic missiles, it became necessary to have the arrow, constantly reevaluate its position and reorientate itself on the target as it flew.
When you pull out to pass, you are passing one car at a time, even if there is a line of twenty. You safely pass the first one. Then if conditions are ideal you may decide to take another one out before you pull back in. It is not until you are out there that you can make this decision safely.
Similarly, when you are passing each car your point of no return is when the front of your car can still pull in behind the driver being passed, because they are locked in or going to slow.
If this driver being passed slows down more, he reduces the area to the point of no return, sometimes forcing the passing driver to try to make a pass they would have otherwise aborted. If they have to get back in to avoid a head on, you may be hit on your side. Pushing you is safer than taking a head on because you got in his way and blocked his retreat. That is you being pushed out of the way by the passing driver.
This would not have occurred if you had been awake earlier, an driving at a faster pace, or just maintained your personal constant speed. If the overtaking driver is competent there is no way you can help by altering your velocity.
So my question is. “How are you helping a driver pass you?"
GoldTrader said:
“How are you helping a driver pass you?"
For the most part the best way to help is to simply maintain a steady speed. Or, for example, on exiting a sequence of bends onto a long straight delaying acceleration to the speed limit or simply accelerating more slowly. Its the guy behind's job to assess if the 'take is on and safe and then to execute it. The guy behind can only base this on your current speed. Changing speed by either accelerating hard or braking hard messes up the judgement - and therefore should be avoided.
One of the unknowns for the overtaking driver is how the overtakee will react. If you can show that this will be favourably (ie cooperation in event of conflict) then that helps the overtake happen.
Chassis language, and indication, slow to accelerate, slowing, indeed pulling off altogether can all contribute to a physically easier overtake, together with a clear understanding in the over-taker's mind that it's a safe one.
Personally, if the car in front slows for no apparent reason when I'm looking for an over-take, I slow down too, rather than having him decide whether the overtake is on or not and just whistling round. It's usually easier to complete at our joint lower speed and a lot safer too.
Chassis language, and indication, slow to accelerate, slowing, indeed pulling off altogether can all contribute to a physically easier overtake, together with a clear understanding in the over-taker's mind that it's a safe one.
Personally, if the car in front slows for no apparent reason when I'm looking for an over-take, I slow down too, rather than having him decide whether the overtake is on or not and just whistling round. It's usually easier to complete at our joint lower speed and a lot safer too.
Since about 80% of my driving is for pleasure (I commute to work on my BMX bicycle...), and I'm ususally in the (much) faster car, I very seldomy tend to get overtaken on roads with less than two lanes in my direction of travel.
Sometimes though there'll be someone behind me who wants to travel faster than I do. I'll always try to make his overtake as safe for _me_ (and, in the process, for him) as possible. I'll slow down slightly when his view is clear, move over to the side of the road once he's moved out, and I might even brake a bit so he has more space to pull in.
After a few close calls, I've made a habit of looking out for oncoming traffic of things that might scare the overtaker, so I can emergency stop immediately.
While this might sound overly cautious and defensive, I've found that it makes being overtaken much less stressful for me.
Whenever I perform an overtake myslef, I'll wave my hand in thanks after I've pulled in.
-Marin
Sometimes though there'll be someone behind me who wants to travel faster than I do. I'll always try to make his overtake as safe for _me_ (and, in the process, for him) as possible. I'll slow down slightly when his view is clear, move over to the side of the road once he's moved out, and I might even brake a bit so he has more space to pull in.
After a few close calls, I've made a habit of looking out for oncoming traffic of things that might scare the overtaker, so I can emergency stop immediately.
While this might sound overly cautious and defensive, I've found that it makes being overtaken much less stressful for me.
Whenever I perform an overtake myslef, I'll wave my hand in thanks after I've pulled in.
-Marin
GoldTrader said:
“How are you helping a driver pass you?"
if nothing else, just acknowledging that you are aware of them, and their intention to pass, lets them know that you aren't going to do anything stupid when they go to pass - you can't take a decent driving standard of those around you for granted at all! also being in front, your visibility w.r.t oncoming traffic can be better.
I've never been overtaken, they all got to meet their maker. Or at least, thats how people increasingly seem to think in my experience. My experience also says that overtaking out of town is completely socially unacceptable and just not done, but doing so in town is perfectly ok. The solution now is instead to attach yourself to the rear bumper of the slow moving obstacle and push them up to the speed you want to go. Unless you're on a DC/m-way. Then overtaking anyone (especially retaking a faster-moving car that's moved back to lane 1) becomes perfectly acceptably again, provided you don't create a speed differential in excess of 0.000001mph.
As said above, if someone catches me rapidly, I'll move over to assist them. Especially bikes filtering in traffic - which as also said above results in 99% of them waving a thanks.
Last week I was overtaken and had mixed feelings about it though. Leading the pack was a slow tractor, followed by a flat-capped Volvo estate driver who was happy to get as close as possible to the hay bale spikes in front but wasn't wanting to overtake. I was behind, then being followed by a Yaris. I was looking for better visibility by being slightly dropped back and looking down the inside of a bend. The Yaris behind was doing the same tho and got out before me and passed. I was impressed with his move since he was doing the same as me, but to much better effect, but meanwhile was a bit annoyed thinking that meant I could have done better.
As said above, if someone catches me rapidly, I'll move over to assist them. Especially bikes filtering in traffic - which as also said above results in 99% of them waving a thanks.
Last week I was overtaken and had mixed feelings about it though. Leading the pack was a slow tractor, followed by a flat-capped Volvo estate driver who was happy to get as close as possible to the hay bale spikes in front but wasn't wanting to overtake. I was behind, then being followed by a Yaris. I was looking for better visibility by being slightly dropped back and looking down the inside of a bend. The Yaris behind was doing the same tho and got out before me and passed. I was impressed with his move since he was doing the same as me, but to much better effect, but meanwhile was a bit annoyed thinking that meant I could have done better.
7db said:
cj_eds said:
As said above, if someone catches me rapidly, I'll move over to assist them. Especially bikes filtering in traffic - which as also said above results in 99% of them waving a thanks.
The other 1% are courier bikes, I notice.I think it is sensbile that when someone is overtaking that we should avoid doing things like speeding up to make the overtake harder, I don't do this and I'm sure most on here would also avoid the same. If whilst someone is overtaking me I can see that he doesn't have enough space to pull in in front of me then I will drop back once he is along side me, if this makes it safer for him to pull in without taking out my front wing or if it might help prevent a head on collision between him and oncoming traffic. Otherwise I'll try and maintain my speed in relation to other traffic on the road.
I don't always appreciate being overtaken however it only annoys me when the person overtaking is doing so from the wrong side (undertaking or passing on the inside) however I tend not to flash or lean on my horn to make it clear I didn't like it, as in my past experiences this can lead to conflict or further unpredictable behaviour.
Lastly I'm confused about siganlling to let someone know that it is ok to overtake. According to the highway code or even in road craft we should only use signals when by doing so we can make our intended actions clear to other road users, I'm not sure how you can clarify it is ok to overtake using just indicators and brake lights. Can someone please explain?
I don't always appreciate being overtaken however it only annoys me when the person overtaking is doing so from the wrong side (undertaking or passing on the inside) however I tend not to flash or lean on my horn to make it clear I didn't like it, as in my past experiences this can lead to conflict or further unpredictable behaviour.
Lastly I'm confused about siganlling to let someone know that it is ok to overtake. According to the highway code or even in road craft we should only use signals when by doing so we can make our intended actions clear to other road users, I'm not sure how you can clarify it is ok to overtake using just indicators and brake lights. Can someone please explain?
Personally I would NOT "signal someone to overtake". In the event of being wrong and the vehicle behind being involved in an accident there would be a reasonable case for me being complicit in the accident - partly to blame.
It is the job of the guy behind to get past safely.
The nicest thing to do if the guy behind clearly wants past is to make it easy for him to do so by keeping speed constant when the next opportunity presents itself. Perhaps travel a little slower and position your car to the left to give the overtaker a better view up the road.
It is the job of the guy behind to get past safely.
The nicest thing to do if the guy behind clearly wants past is to make it easy for him to do so by keeping speed constant when the next opportunity presents itself. Perhaps travel a little slower and position your car to the left to give the overtaker a better view up the road.
cj_eds said:
7db said:
cj_eds said:
As said above, if someone catches me rapidly, I'll move over to assist them. Especially bikes filtering in traffic - which as also said above results in 99% of them waving a thanks.
The other 1% are courier bikes, I notice.Don said:
Personally I would NOT "signal someone to overtake". In the event of being wrong and the vehicle behind being involved in an accident there would be a reasonable case for me being complicit in the accident - partly to blame.
It is the job of the guy behind to get past safely.
The nicest thing to do if the guy behind clearly wants past is to make it easy for him to do so by keeping speed constant when the next opportunity presents itself. Perhaps travel a little slower and position your car to the left to give the overtaker a better view up the road.
I don't actually signal somebody to overtake, but I do often give a signal that means I am aware that they wish to overtake and am ready to co-operate.It is the job of the guy behind to get past safely.
The nicest thing to do if the guy behind clearly wants past is to make it easy for him to do so by keeping speed constant when the next opportunity presents itself. Perhaps travel a little slower and position your car to the left to give the overtaker a better view up the road.
In the event that the overtaker gets it wrong and there's a problem of some kind, I might feel some moral discomfort if I've issued some kind of invitation, but I don't see it amounting to a legal responsibility on my part.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I don't actually signal somebody to overtake, but I do often give a signal that means I am aware that they wish to overtake and am ready to co-operate.
In the event that the overtaker gets it wrong and there's a problem of some kind, I might feel some moral discomfort if I've issued some kind of invitation, but I don't see it amounting to a legal responsibility on my part.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
What 'signal' do you give?In the event that the overtaker gets it wrong and there's a problem of some kind, I might feel some moral discomfort if I've issued some kind of invitation, but I don't see it amounting to a legal responsibility on my part.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I'm only asking as, if I were ever in a position to overtake you (like that's ever going to happen while I'm driving my Fiat Punto 1.2) and you gave me the 'signal' I'd need to know what to look for and of course be sure that it means what you intend it to mean.
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