Core Advanced Skills - Best place to start?
Discussion
I've been asked to take my 17 year old cousin out for a drive with a view to improving his driving a bit.
He passed his test in May, but due to both his parents being ill at the moment he's had sole access to the 2nd family car for the last few months. He's done some pretty big drives, Brighton -> Dumfries and back and to Oxford and places as well.
From chatting to him it seems like he's the classic 17 year old male driver - very (over?) confident, loves driving, loves driving fast, probably lacks risk assessment and anticipation. From speaking to his mother, it appears that he drives too fast and too close to the car in front a lot of the time.
With this in mind, and a few hours disposable in the next couple of weeks, what do people think are the best lessons to be taught, and are there any specific methods or demonstrations that could be useful?
I was planning on focusing on:
and
I was planning a route taking in the M23 (quiet M'way), M25 (busy M'way - he's driven it solo before), A roads and then some of the most tortuous B-roads I can find to show him how SLOW you have to approach some of them to be safe. All will be in daylight in hopefully good weather conditions for now.
Can anyone suggest a good curriculum, or give comment on what I have suggested? I was going to send him some reading material (RUL!) to give him a heads up, and then observe his drive before demonstrating and then re-observing....
He passed his test in May, but due to both his parents being ill at the moment he's had sole access to the 2nd family car for the last few months. He's done some pretty big drives, Brighton -> Dumfries and back and to Oxford and places as well.
From chatting to him it seems like he's the classic 17 year old male driver - very (over?) confident, loves driving, loves driving fast, probably lacks risk assessment and anticipation. From speaking to his mother, it appears that he drives too fast and too close to the car in front a lot of the time.
With this in mind, and a few hours disposable in the next couple of weeks, what do people think are the best lessons to be taught, and are there any specific methods or demonstrations that could be useful?
I was planning on focusing on:
- Observation
- Anticipation
- Planning
and
- Attitude
- Speed Awareness
- Motorway skills as he's doing long drives but due to parents being ill he hasn't had any instruction in this.
- A few car control techiques - Brake/Gear/Steering Separation and Correct Gear changes, just to improve technique and smooth out his driving.
- Overtakes other than on the motorway (I may demonstrate in my own car, but only to give examples of when it's safe and appropriate)
- Strong road positioning - Moving for safety is fine, Moving fully to the offside for better vision isn't really on the cards for a new and enthusiastic Driver IMO.
- Assertive driving: By this I mean "encouraging" slow vehicles out of lane three, or "holding" other vehicles by postion and speed. I think that these really fall out of the realms of civilian driving, and again would expose him to risk.
I was planning a route taking in the M23 (quiet M'way), M25 (busy M'way - he's driven it solo before), A roads and then some of the most tortuous B-roads I can find to show him how SLOW you have to approach some of them to be safe. All will be in daylight in hopefully good weather conditions for now.
Can anyone suggest a good curriculum, or give comment on what I have suggested? I was going to send him some reading material (RUL!) to give him a heads up, and then observe his drive before demonstrating and then re-observing....
Firstly, I'd cover the limit point, probably the most likely tip to save his life ...
Also, ensure that you (as you will) build this around other cornering clues ...
eg. tree line, angle of white lines etc... as the limit point is not always the whole picture.
A useful tip, and new to me, chevrons (on the boards), the more there are, usually, the less severe the bend.
The less there are, the more severe the bend. Sounds odd, but if your scratching your head, on tight bends there is usually less room to place multiple signs ...
Martin
Also, ensure that you (as you will) build this around other cornering clues ...
eg. tree line, angle of white lines etc... as the limit point is not always the whole picture.
A useful tip, and new to me, chevrons (on the boards), the more there are, usually, the less severe the bend.
The less there are, the more severe the bend. Sounds odd, but if your scratching your head, on tight bends there is usually less room to place multiple signs ...
Martin
Don't go along the "do it this way because it's right" route.
Young lads have an over-abundence of confidence over actual ability and experience, and telling him that he should change the way he does things just for the sake of it won't work - trust me, I have an 18-year old stepson (who is currently the owner of a diesel 106 that used to belong to a certain French friend of ours, Nev
)
The trick is to direct any instruction so that they notice a difference. Allowing them to notice an immediate difference is even better.
With my lad, I started with his driving position, as this can be the root to a lot of major driving problems. Almost immediately after passing his test and getting his car, he adopted the typical teenage seat-right-back/lean-forward/cripple-hook driving position. Don't ask me why, but it's considered cool for some reason. Anyway, i adjusted his seat, got him sitting correctly, and then showed him how much smoother his seering was as a result.
Don't try to teach him system at all. It takes too much practice and will divert his attention too much.
When you're looking at cornering, don't worry too much about the details - just get him to sort everything out before the corner - speed off, change gear - and then accelerate through the corner. He'll notice an immediate improvement in the way the car handles under acceleration through bends.
Try to emphasise the mechanical sympathy aspect by telling him how much having a clutch/brake pads/new tyres etc fitted costs. Show him that by using smooth car control, he can save himself some cash in maintainence costs. The fact that, by smoothing his driving style out, you'll be making him a safer driver won't matter to him, but if you're saving him cash, it's a different matter.
Don't try to overload him with too much - this can have as bad an effect as teaching him incorrectly. Just do a few things at a time, and if something is ok to start with, leave it well alone.
If his steering is alright, for instance, don't mention it. Or if his gearchanges are smooth, then levae them alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As for improving his observations, look for simple observation links. If you can make a few straightforward predictions which come true early on in the drive, he'll wonder how you know these things and will be more eager to learn.
You know the type of thing - if the bins are out, there'll be bin men, people getting up on the bus - it's going to stop, that kind of thing. But miss out the first part. Just tell him there'll be a bin lorry in a minute, or that the bus is going to stop. He'll wonder how the hell you know these things, whereas you and I know they're simple links.
Once you've got his attention like that, it'll be much easier to move on to improving his observations and planning.
Oh, and a very good instructional tool is to demonstrate something yourself. I can use a thousand words to describe how to change gear properly, but I can demonstrate it in 10 seconds. If you're struggling to get a concept across, jump in the drivers seat and show him what you mean.
Young lads have an over-abundence of confidence over actual ability and experience, and telling him that he should change the way he does things just for the sake of it won't work - trust me, I have an 18-year old stepson (who is currently the owner of a diesel 106 that used to belong to a certain French friend of ours, Nev
)The trick is to direct any instruction so that they notice a difference. Allowing them to notice an immediate difference is even better.
With my lad, I started with his driving position, as this can be the root to a lot of major driving problems. Almost immediately after passing his test and getting his car, he adopted the typical teenage seat-right-back/lean-forward/cripple-hook driving position. Don't ask me why, but it's considered cool for some reason. Anyway, i adjusted his seat, got him sitting correctly, and then showed him how much smoother his seering was as a result.
Don't try to teach him system at all. It takes too much practice and will divert his attention too much.
When you're looking at cornering, don't worry too much about the details - just get him to sort everything out before the corner - speed off, change gear - and then accelerate through the corner. He'll notice an immediate improvement in the way the car handles under acceleration through bends.
Try to emphasise the mechanical sympathy aspect by telling him how much having a clutch/brake pads/new tyres etc fitted costs. Show him that by using smooth car control, he can save himself some cash in maintainence costs. The fact that, by smoothing his driving style out, you'll be making him a safer driver won't matter to him, but if you're saving him cash, it's a different matter.
Don't try to overload him with too much - this can have as bad an effect as teaching him incorrectly. Just do a few things at a time, and if something is ok to start with, leave it well alone.
If his steering is alright, for instance, don't mention it. Or if his gearchanges are smooth, then levae them alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As for improving his observations, look for simple observation links. If you can make a few straightforward predictions which come true early on in the drive, he'll wonder how you know these things and will be more eager to learn.
You know the type of thing - if the bins are out, there'll be bin men, people getting up on the bus - it's going to stop, that kind of thing. But miss out the first part. Just tell him there'll be a bin lorry in a minute, or that the bus is going to stop. He'll wonder how the hell you know these things, whereas you and I know they're simple links.
Once you've got his attention like that, it'll be much easier to move on to improving his observations and planning.
Oh, and a very good instructional tool is to demonstrate something yourself. I can use a thousand words to describe how to change gear properly, but I can demonstrate it in 10 seconds. If you're struggling to get a concept across, jump in the drivers seat and show him what you mean.
May I suggest a reading reference for training young drivers?
http://www.pitstop.net.au/view/motorsport-cars-dri...
A very good book that is aimed squarely at encouraging safe attitudes for young(er) drivers, and some basic defensive driving tips. It takes a whole-of-system approach, from influences while the child is young, to teenage years, to after they earn their license. I don't think there are any books that tackle the issue so comprehensively as this one does.
Although it's an Australian book, the ideas within will apply almost anywhere; and the general driving environment in the UK and Australia are similar anyway (we all drive on the same side of the road, for a start!).
Some forwards and reviews from the authors' company website:
http://www.mindovermotor.com.au/index.php?pgid=19
http://www.pitstop.net.au/view/motorsport-cars-dri...
A very good book that is aimed squarely at encouraging safe attitudes for young(er) drivers, and some basic defensive driving tips. It takes a whole-of-system approach, from influences while the child is young, to teenage years, to after they earn their license. I don't think there are any books that tackle the issue so comprehensively as this one does.
Although it's an Australian book, the ideas within will apply almost anywhere; and the general driving environment in the UK and Australia are similar anyway (we all drive on the same side of the road, for a start!).
Some forwards and reviews from the authors' company website:
http://www.mindovermotor.com.au/index.php?pgid=19
R_U_LOCAL said:
Don't go along the "do it this way because it's right" route.
Young lads have an over-abundence of confidence over actual ability and experience, and telling him that he should change the way he does things just for the sake of it won't work - trust me, I have an 18-year old stepson (who is currently the owner of a diesel 106 that used to belong to a certain French friend of ours, Nev)
The trick is to direct any instruction so that they notice a difference. Allowing them to notice an immediate difference is even better.
With my lad, I started with his driving position, as this can be the root to a lot of major driving problems. Almost immediately after passing his test and getting his car, he adopted the typical teenage seat-right-back/lean-forward/cripple-hook driving position. Don't ask me why, but it's considered cool for some reason. Anyway, i adjusted his seat, got him sitting correctly, and then showed him how much smoother his seering was as a result.
Don't try to teach him system at all. It takes too much practice and will divert his attention too much.
When you're looking at cornering, don't worry too much about the details - just get him to sort everything out before the corner - speed off, change gear - and then accelerate through the corner. He'll notice an immediate improvement in the way the car handles under acceleration through bends.
Try to emphasise the mechanical sympathy aspect by telling him how much having a clutch/brake pads/new tyres etc fitted costs. Show him that by using smooth car control, he can save himself some cash in maintainence costs. The fact that, by smoothing his driving style out, you'll be making him a safer driver won't matter to him, but if you're saving him cash, it's a different matter.
Don't try to overload him with too much - this can have as bad an effect as teaching him incorrectly. Just do a few things at a time, and if something is ok to start with, leave it well alone.
If his steering is alright, for instance, don't mention it. Or if his gearchanges are smooth, then levae them alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As for improving his observations, look for simple observation links. If you can make a few straightforward predictions which come true early on in the drive, he'll wonder how you know these things and will be more eager to learn.
You know the type of thing - if the bins are out, there'll be bin men, people getting up on the bus - it's going to stop, that kind of thing. But miss out the first part. Just tell him there'll be a bin lorry in a minute, or that the bus is going to stop. He'll wonder how the hell you know these things, whereas you and I know they're simple links.
Once you've got his attention like that, it'll be much easier to move on to improving his observations and planning.
Oh, and a very good instructional tool is to demonstrate something yourself. I can use a thousand words to describe how to change gear properly, but I can demonstrate it in 10 seconds. If you're struggling to get a concept across, jump in the drivers seat and show him what you mean.
what he said as natural conversation, works with my 13 and 12 year olds who are being taught to drive by me, which does cause a few fireworks/tears Young lads have an over-abundence of confidence over actual ability and experience, and telling him that he should change the way he does things just for the sake of it won't work - trust me, I have an 18-year old stepson (who is currently the owner of a diesel 106 that used to belong to a certain French friend of ours, Nev
)The trick is to direct any instruction so that they notice a difference. Allowing them to notice an immediate difference is even better.
With my lad, I started with his driving position, as this can be the root to a lot of major driving problems. Almost immediately after passing his test and getting his car, he adopted the typical teenage seat-right-back/lean-forward/cripple-hook driving position. Don't ask me why, but it's considered cool for some reason. Anyway, i adjusted his seat, got him sitting correctly, and then showed him how much smoother his seering was as a result.
Don't try to teach him system at all. It takes too much practice and will divert his attention too much.
When you're looking at cornering, don't worry too much about the details - just get him to sort everything out before the corner - speed off, change gear - and then accelerate through the corner. He'll notice an immediate improvement in the way the car handles under acceleration through bends.
Try to emphasise the mechanical sympathy aspect by telling him how much having a clutch/brake pads/new tyres etc fitted costs. Show him that by using smooth car control, he can save himself some cash in maintainence costs. The fact that, by smoothing his driving style out, you'll be making him a safer driver won't matter to him, but if you're saving him cash, it's a different matter.
Don't try to overload him with too much - this can have as bad an effect as teaching him incorrectly. Just do a few things at a time, and if something is ok to start with, leave it well alone.
If his steering is alright, for instance, don't mention it. Or if his gearchanges are smooth, then levae them alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As for improving his observations, look for simple observation links. If you can make a few straightforward predictions which come true early on in the drive, he'll wonder how you know these things and will be more eager to learn.
You know the type of thing - if the bins are out, there'll be bin men, people getting up on the bus - it's going to stop, that kind of thing. But miss out the first part. Just tell him there'll be a bin lorry in a minute, or that the bus is going to stop. He'll wonder how the hell you know these things, whereas you and I know they're simple links.
Once you've got his attention like that, it'll be much easier to move on to improving his observations and planning.
Oh, and a very good instructional tool is to demonstrate something yourself. I can use a thousand words to describe how to change gear properly, but I can demonstrate it in 10 seconds. If you're struggling to get a concept across, jump in the drivers seat and show him what you mean.
Without actually experiencing his driving it's difficult to say what needs the most attention but space management is always a good place to start. Observation, anticipation and planning (as you have already said) and get him to sit back from developing situations rather than rush into them and then have to react. If you can get him to manage the space around his vehicle properly he'll have much more room available in which to make the inevitable mistakes.
It's also something that he would notice as an immediate improvement in that he will be able to make better progress and is therefore likely to feel that he getting some benefit. Very important, as Reg says.
Of course, he has to actually want to do it or the whole thing is just academic.
It's also something that he would notice as an immediate improvement in that he will be able to make better progress and is therefore likely to feel that he getting some benefit. Very important, as Reg says.
Of course, he has to actually want to do it or the whole thing is just academic.
Edited by Strangely Brown on Friday 13th July 15:38
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