Stopping at a Junction or lights with an Automatic?

[Nollub]

I've just bought a smart MHD (micro-hybrid drive), which switches the engine off when stopped in traffic if the footbrake is on.

What's best with this, keep the footbrake on with the resulting brake lights blazing away but using zero petrol with the engine off or switch the MHD facility off, release the footbrake and burn fuel whilst waiting for the traffic to move again? Both ways have disadvantages!

(I know I could switch the engine off but after 60 seconds the immobilizer kicks in and restarting takes longer if I have to unlock the car to turn off the immobilizer before restarting to move on again.)

[Nolar Dog]

When I'm driving an auto (which is almost always as a chauffeur) I either hold on parking brake whilst in Drive or if it's a longer stop I'll select Park and use footbrake too.

I never select neutral and hold on footbrake.

[FamilyGuy]

Mine's a bog standard auto and I go with what seems to be the consensus - for short stops N plus hand brake and avoid dazzling others. I hate to sit there pointlessly wasting even a little fuel and it doesn't seem mechanically sympathetic to stress the engine/transmission and the brakes against each other needlessly even if they're designed for it. If viz is bad and no-one is behind me I'll also keep a foot on the brakes though until someone is and they've definitely seen me, then they come off.

[Huff]

Point of interest on the fuel consumption side - I have an E34 540i auto, 4.0l v8. the onboard computer has various hidden modes that can be accessed, one of which is realtime fuel consumption in litres per hour.

The difference between D and N at idle, handbrake on is about 0.1 l/hr. It surprised me. Aircon OTOH adds about +0.7l/hr.

[F i F]

Nollub said:

I've just bought a smart MHD (micro-hybrid drive), which switches the engine off when stopped in traffic if the footbrake is on.

What's best with this, keep the footbrake on with the resulting brake lights blazing away but using zero petrol with the engine off or switch the MHD facility off, release the footbrake and burn fuel whilst waiting for the traffic to move again? Both ways have disadvantages!

(I know I could switch the engine off but after 60 seconds the immobilizer kicks in and restarting takes longer if I have to unlock the car to turn off the immobilizer before restarting to move on again.)

That seems a staggeringly lousy bit of design.

[Strangely Brown]

F i F said:

That seems a staggeringly lousy bit of design.

Why? It's the same on my Elise. Switch off and the immobiliser will kick in after 40 seconds (or so). I don't have any problem with it since I don't switch off unless I know that I am going to be stationary for a hell of a lot longer than 40 seconds.

Edit: Reading the posts again, I don't think you were referring to the immobiliser switching in?

Edited by Strangely Brown on Thursday 24th September 17:01

[George 500]

I am assuming non of you handbrake/neutral users live in London.

My drive to work is around 8 miles which generally takes me 15 ish minutes. I estimate that on a good day I stop/start around 20 times. On a bad day (perhaps 30 mins) I might well creep down the A4 and stop start up to 100 times. Maybe I am lazy, and I apologise to the people behind me but if I am stationary for less than 30 seconds life is just too short. Quite apart from the fact that if you have to engage gear and release the handbrake every time you need to move you will have the car behind hooting at you for being slow on the uptake!

[F i F]

Strangely Brown said:

Edit: Reading the posts again, I don't think you were referring to the immobiliser switching in?

Correct, was posting from phone and editing quotes plus getting the formatting correct takes forever. Would normally have edited the bit about the immobiliser out.

[FamilyGuy]

George 500 said:

I am assuming non of you handbrake/neutral users live in London.

My drive to work is around 8 miles which generally takes me 15 ish minutes. I estimate that on a good day I stop/start around 20 times. On a bad day (perhaps 30 mins) I might well creep down the A4 and stop start up to 100 times. Maybe I am lazy, and I apologise to the people behind me but if I am stationary for less than 30 seconds life is just too short. Quite apart from the fact that if you have to engage gear and release the handbrake every time you need to move you will have the car behind hooting at you for being slow on the uptake!

I'll probably get flamed to death from the real advanced drivers for this as it's probably not "keeping proper control of the vehicle", but in really stop-start traffic I'll have slipped it back into N almost as soon as I can estimate where the car in front will stop and coast up to them. You can get in back into D and the handbrake off in plenty of time by watching the traffic ahead.

[George 500]

FamilyGuy said:

George 500 said:

I am assuming non of you handbrake/neutral users live in London.

My drive to work is around 8 miles which generally takes me 15 ish minutes. I estimate that on a good day I stop/start around 20 times. On a bad day (perhaps 30 mins) I might well creep down the A4 and stop start up to 100 times. Maybe I am lazy, and I apologise to the people behind me but if I am stationary for less than 30 seconds life is just too short. Quite apart from the fact that if you have to engage gear and release the handbrake every time you need to move you will have the car behind hooting at you for being slow on the uptake!

I'll probably get flamed to death from the real advanced drivers for this as it's probably not "keeping proper control of the vehicle", but in really stop-start traffic I'll have slipped it back into N almost as soon as I can estimate where the car in front will stop and coast up to them. You can get in back into D and the handbrake off in plenty of time by watching the traffic ahead.

I am concious that it is possible but would you really want to do this 20 times on the way in and 20 times on the way back? Furthermore I take the glaring brake lights comments but would argue that for (well lit) inner city driving this is significantly less relevant

[335Diesel]

I just brake (so activating the brake lights) for very short stops then handbrakes and N when I know it'll be a longer one.

I often slip the car into DS (sport mode) if I need to get going quickly. Hangs onto each gear for longer.

And then there's semi auto mode for really pressing on - still learning how to use it all properly (got the car six weeks ago)!

[George 500]

Why is N and the handbrake better than park?

[335Diesel]

George 500 said:

Why is N and the handbrake better than park?

To me (this isn't an IAM view!) it's better in N with handbrake because then the tranmission isn't "locked up" and it's physically closer to D than P (which means you have to pass through R too).

I think you should always be ready to move quickly - it's saved me from being rear ended twice now.

[DJP]

The correct procedure is to leave in D and put the handbrake on. If you're concerned about being rear ended, then press the footbrake to show the brake lights (and be prepared to move) until the car behind stops.

Sitting with your foot on the footbrake is discourteous (especially with today's high intensity/high level brakelights).

[waremark]

DJP said:

The correct procedure is to leave in D and put the handbrake on. If you're concerned about being rear ended, then press the footbrake to show the brake lights (and be prepared to move) until the car behind stops.

Sitting with your foot on the footbrake is discourteous (especially with today's high intensity/high level brakelights).

I don't agree that there is such a thing as 'a correct procedure'. Your procedure is suitable and convenient in some cars but not in all.

I suggest in the Smart generally using the procedure clearly intended by its designers except where there is a particular reason to be concerned about dazzling the driver behind (eg in the dark). I have a Merc on which I use a footbrake hold function - press the footbrake hard, and it locks on until you accelerate or press the brake again. Merc's appalling foot operated parking brakes were clearly never intended for frequent use. I think I have heard Americans calling them Emergency Brakes - after all they generally park in Park without using the brake so that is all they think they are for.

[SJobson]

I would strongly suggest that people do not sit in D with the handbrake/parking brake engaged. If you accidentally brush the accelerator the car can quite easily overcome the handbrake.

[VX Foxy]

shakotan said:

okgo said:

blank said:

okgo said:

What is wrong with just leaving it in drive and putting your foot on the brake?

Dazzles the people behind you.
If someone drives into the back of you you'll shoot off forwards.
Probably some other reasons too...

A brake light hardly dazzles.
Sounds all a bit pedantic to me..

Try sitting behind someone with LED tailights, or a bright third eye brake light.
It's fking annoying and inconsiderate, and if for a period of time of more that 30 seconds, makes me want to get out of the car and smash their lights with a wheelbrace

Apart from being ignorant and inconsiderate, it's also against highway code advice.
okgo - are you on the right forum?

[George 500]

VX Foxy said:

Apart from being ignorant and inconsiderate, it's also against highway code advice

But how long do I have to stop for (according to the Highway Code) before I have to put it in Neutral and apply the hand brake.

And why should I have to do it in an automatic and not a manual (give that most of you propogate putting the car in neutral first it is irrelevant what kind of gearbox the car has)? What do you normally do in a manual if you are creeping down a hill towards a roundabout? Do you only use the handbrake?

And is it really inconsiderate to be sitting with your foot on the brake for five seconds at a time on a bright sunny morning?

I have been watching all of the other cars on my daily commute and certainly haven't seen any othr car popping themselves into neutral or removing their foot from the brake. I have also concluded that in London (where it is well lit enough that night vision is not an issue) it doesn't bother me in the slightest

I think some of you guys need to lighten up- in the lexicon of troll like driving crimes (middle lane hogging, not dipping headlights, driving with foglights on, inconsistent speed on motorways) this hardly even rates

[VX Foxy]

Perhaps some common sense could be applied?

[waremark]

George 500 said:

I think some of you guys need to lighten up- in the lexicon of troll like driving crimes (middle lane hogging, not dipping headlights, driving with foglights on, inconsistent speed on motorways) this hardly even rates

I agree - I don't think the 'glare' of brake lights is ever an issue except in the dark.