RC car - 1st timer looking for suggestions please?
Discussion
Motormania, agree with every point bar.....
Yes, you need core talent. But to apply that talent to its utmost you need a car that is equally capable.
The car itself is not going to make you a world beater, but it will certainly help increase your own performance.
motormania said:
300bhp/ton said:
shentodj said:
First: 'To be the best it will cost'
errrrr sorry but no! To be the best requires talent, not money. I've been racing for more years than I would like to admit too.
I race in the national series so consider myself a very capable driver. If I raced a car spec'd lower than what I have, then there is no way I would achieve the level of results Ive achieved in the past. errrrr sorry but no! To be the best requires talent, not money. I've been racing for more years than I would like to admit too.
Yes, you need core talent. But to apply that talent to its utmost you need a car that is equally capable.
The car itself is not going to make you a world beater, but it will certainly help increase your own performance.
motormania said:
300bhp/ton said:
shentodj said:
To get the best it will COST!
So everyone will say brushless and LiPo batteries. The down side is this is bloody expensive.
So everyone will say brushless and LiPo batteries. The down side is this is bloody expensive.
First: 'To be the best it will cost'
errrrr sorry but no!
Just to clarify, but please read my post it says to GET the best, not BE the best. A subtle but rather distinct difference.
I too have been racing RC cars for some time (in fact looking back I see it was 16+ years ago).
And I agree having the best equipment does not mean you will be good or even capable.
But by the same measure its very very very very rare to see someone with old out dated equipment actually being competitive.
Unless racing in a strictly controlled class using essentially stock setups, control tyres and motors. But in off road this in my experience is not the norm.
motormania said:
To be the best requires talent, not money. I've been racing for more years than I would like to admit too. I have seen it so many times at clubs up and down the UK. New member comes along with a cheap car and starts racing. See's the guys in the top heats flying around and suddenly a few weeks later the same new member arrives with all the latest spec equipment having spent a fortune and then wonders why he's still in the bottom heats - within a month you never see that person again...
Secondly: 'Brushless and LiPo is bloody expensive'
Oh boy! When will people stop saying this!!!!??????? Lipo and brushless is not expensive, in fact it is probably cheaper than cells and brushed motors if you are prepared to stop and take a step back.
The scenario
Someone wants to race each week at a local club that has 3 heats and a final.
If you go brushed and cells you will need 4 packs of cells as it is strongly advised not to recharge a cell pack straight after a race, therefore to cater for 4 racing means you need 4 cells. The brushed motor will require regular maintenance to clean it and replace brushes and re-dress the comm to offer the best performance.
Costs for brushed and cells:
Half decent cells, lets say a 3600mAh NiMh pack would cost approx £24 each
half decent motor, 27T spec approx £20 + spares for continual maintenance
Total cost for the 'old way' £116 + spares for the brushed motor + your time to maintain optimum performance.
Now let's try brushless and LiPo. For starters, you only need 1 LiPo, the advantage being you can just keep charging and charging the same pack, race after race. Then we'll have the brushless motor which requires zero maintenance, never have to take it apart to clean comm, no more brushes to keep buying as they wear down. Oh and with the LiPo there is no need to discharge or cycle it after a race meeting, in fact you can charge a LiPo weeks in advance of a race meeting and it will not loose any of its power. In addition, LiPo's do not fade during a race like conventional cells.
Costs for brushless and LiPo
Lets again go with a 3600mAh LiPo pack would cost approx £43
13.5 Brushless motor is equal to a 27T one £36
Total cost for the 'new way' £79 + zero maintenance.
Of course you can get more expensive brushless motors and LiPo packs, but that's also the same for brushed and cells. I have not taken into account speedo or chargers, again there are some many variables and prices. The key issue here is that if you are new coming into the hobby I would NEVER EVER suggest to anyone to go the brushed/cell route. LiPo/brushless is the only sensible option.
To be fair, a lot of the negativity I think comes from those who've been running the 'old way' and feel the costs are expensive to go the 'new way' because it makes all their kit redundant. I can understand that. For me I was lucky. I'd been away from the scene for a few years (marriage and kids does that to you!) so coming back I needed to get all new kit and after visiting a few clubs it was clear to me that liPo and brushless was the only sensible answer.
Basically what I'm trying to say is please stop all this talk of expensive costs for Lipo/brushless v cells/brushed as it's complete BS! I've proved it above, its cheaper to buy from new and saves you time and money with a system that's zero maintenance.
For what it's worth, I have been driving my car now for a year with 1 LiPo pack and a 13.5 brushless. Never touched the motor and the LiPo is charged 4 times a week and has been for the past year, nothing else and I'm in the A finals every week with my car.
Now imagine how many brushed motors and brushes/comms I would have been through to keep my optimum performance, let along the hassle with all those cells!!!
For what it's worth, I think the industry will drop cells and brushed within the next 2 years, then we'll not even have to worry about this topic that gets me so wound up!!!!!
Going to assume you didn't read a couple of key points.Secondly: 'Brushless and LiPo is bloody expensive'
Oh boy! When will people stop saying this!!!!??????? Lipo and brushless is not expensive, in fact it is probably cheaper than cells and brushed motors if you are prepared to stop and take a step back.
The scenario
Someone wants to race each week at a local club that has 3 heats and a final.
If you go brushed and cells you will need 4 packs of cells as it is strongly advised not to recharge a cell pack straight after a race, therefore to cater for 4 racing means you need 4 cells. The brushed motor will require regular maintenance to clean it and replace brushes and re-dress the comm to offer the best performance.
Costs for brushed and cells:
Half decent cells, lets say a 3600mAh NiMh pack would cost approx £24 each
half decent motor, 27T spec approx £20 + spares for continual maintenance
Total cost for the 'old way' £116 + spares for the brushed motor + your time to maintain optimum performance.
Now let's try brushless and LiPo. For starters, you only need 1 LiPo, the advantage being you can just keep charging and charging the same pack, race after race. Then we'll have the brushless motor which requires zero maintenance, never have to take it apart to clean comm, no more brushes to keep buying as they wear down. Oh and with the LiPo there is no need to discharge or cycle it after a race meeting, in fact you can charge a LiPo weeks in advance of a race meeting and it will not loose any of its power. In addition, LiPo's do not fade during a race like conventional cells.
Costs for brushless and LiPo
Lets again go with a 3600mAh LiPo pack would cost approx £43
13.5 Brushless motor is equal to a 27T one £36
Total cost for the 'new way' £79 + zero maintenance.
Of course you can get more expensive brushless motors and LiPo packs, but that's also the same for brushed and cells. I have not taken into account speedo or chargers, again there are some many variables and prices. The key issue here is that if you are new coming into the hobby I would NEVER EVER suggest to anyone to go the brushed/cell route. LiPo/brushless is the only sensible option.
To be fair, a lot of the negativity I think comes from those who've been running the 'old way' and feel the costs are expensive to go the 'new way' because it makes all their kit redundant. I can understand that. For me I was lucky. I'd been away from the scene for a few years (marriage and kids does that to you!) so coming back I needed to get all new kit and after visiting a few clubs it was clear to me that liPo and brushless was the only sensible answer.
Basically what I'm trying to say is please stop all this talk of expensive costs for Lipo/brushless v cells/brushed as it's complete BS! I've proved it above, its cheaper to buy from new and saves you time and money with a system that's zero maintenance.
For what it's worth, I have been driving my car now for a year with 1 LiPo pack and a 13.5 brushless. Never touched the motor and the LiPo is charged 4 times a week and has been for the past year, nothing else and I'm in the A finals every week with my car.
Now imagine how many brushed motors and brushes/comms I would have been through to keep my optimum performance, let along the hassle with all those cells!!!
For what it's worth, I think the industry will drop cells and brushed within the next 2 years, then we'll not even have to worry about this topic that gets me so wound up!!!!!
1. the Op never said anything about racing
2. I said for lack of quoting myself go for LiPo and don't let people sway you otherwise.
3. I clearly stated that if the op was interested in racing then I'd post back some different info
Personally I believe a good race machine does not always make the best basher. If they want it for the park on a limited budget a full race spec setup will cost 2 or 3 times more than they want to spend and will likely not fulfill the requirement they wanted for it.
wacattack said:
Motormania, agree with every point bar.....
Also please read what the op posted and what I posted, not what someone "thinks" I posted.Requirement from op - cost affective RC car for park use.
So not a competition racing machine.
It may be that they do intend this, but that is not what they have asked.
It would be like a what car "fast fun weekend car" and people suggesting ex-BTCC vehicles and retired GT racers.
Thanks
wacattack said:
Motormania, agree with every point bar.....
Yes, you need core talent. But to apply that talent to its utmost you need a car that is equally capable.
The car itself is not going to make you a world beater, but it will certainly help increase your own performance.
I understand where your coming from, I was thinking more about the average 'local hobby club' rather than anything coming close to a club with national level drivers, but fair point.motormania said:
300bhp/ton said:
shentodj said:
First: 'To be the best it will cost'
errrrr sorry but no! To be the best requires talent, not money. I've been racing for more years than I would like to admit too.
I race in the national series so consider myself a very capable driver. If I raced a car spec'd lower than what I have, then there is no way I would achieve the level of results Ive achieved in the past. errrrr sorry but no! To be the best requires talent, not money. I've been racing for more years than I would like to admit too.
Yes, you need core talent. But to apply that talent to its utmost you need a car that is equally capable.
The car itself is not going to make you a world beater, but it will certainly help increase your own performance.
Edited by motormania on Friday 2nd October 14:31
300bhp/ton said:
te day and probably was not reading straight 
Although some of my comments may have been out of context of the OP, I still stand by what I say about racing and what options those new to the hobby should aim at...
To be perfectly honest, and having been racing for well over 30 years now, I've never quite understood why people buy RC cars to use at the park! You only get the best of your car and value for money by racing with others. Not all clubs take it dead serious. I know there are those and I've been along and never gone back.
But look around and there are still those clubs where the guys and girls (yes we do have a few female racers in the UK) go to the club to have fun and enjoy it. That's not to say it's not competitive, but it's not the end of the world if you loose either.
It's a great hobby and if the OP is going to spend around £300ish - it would be a huge shame not to make the most of it. Goe to the BRCA web site and review some of the clubs, try the oOple forum and see the clubs listed there. You'll probably find something nearby. By joining a club instead of just running in a park they'll have far more fun, learn what to do and what not to do and there'll be endless free advice too.
So to the OP - go find a club before spending a penny - I guarantee it will be the best thing you ever did as car parks and local parks get boring very quickly
I agree racing is fun.
The main reason I stopped was cost though although there were a few other things such as lack of time and a shift to on road racing in the local area.
And no its not about being the best, I just found that to even be remotely competitive meant a descent setup. My fav racing was 1/10th scale 2wd trucks. But it got to the stage were to run a competitive turn motor meant my cells would last for about 4 min 20 sec. So I could do ok in against similar level competition for most of the race but never get anything due to not being able to fully race the 5 min duration.
Running a slower setup I could make the race distance, but it wasn't as fun and I wasn't as competitive.
I agree LiPo's have helped change this, but if you are starting from stratch and want 2 packs and a descent charger plus a descent race car its a lot of money.
And its not just that, racing often involves breaking things. Yes some people never do, but it happens so it makes running costs an issue if on a budget.
I also really enjoy bashing with RC cars and the race ones are just too fragile and require to much maintenance after a while.
Last year when I started looking into getting a new RC car and getting back into it I looked around at some of the current 1/10th buggies and trucks.
After picking out a kit and deciding that my old 27MHz radio gear could do with updating. And I might as well go brushless, so new motor and ESC and new charger and cells. I simply couldn't believe the price it all added up too.
For £500 you could buy a Series III Landy with MOT and tax. For £20 you can go an enter a real car in a competitive competition. This is cheaper than getting all the gear you really need for a descent RC setup.
This is why I think its important to make the distinction clear between bashing and racing and why I looked at 1/18th scale cars.
I think the op should do the same, a descent 1/18th buggy/truck will be well within budget and if you buy the right one there is likely to be a race series they can enter them in if they want. Especially with winter approaching and the popularity of indoor carpet racing.
BTW - what do you race at present?
The main reason I stopped was cost though although there were a few other things such as lack of time and a shift to on road racing in the local area.
And no its not about being the best, I just found that to even be remotely competitive meant a descent setup. My fav racing was 1/10th scale 2wd trucks. But it got to the stage were to run a competitive turn motor meant my cells would last for about 4 min 20 sec. So I could do ok in against similar level competition for most of the race but never get anything due to not being able to fully race the 5 min duration.
Running a slower setup I could make the race distance, but it wasn't as fun and I wasn't as competitive.
I agree LiPo's have helped change this, but if you are starting from stratch and want 2 packs and a descent charger plus a descent race car its a lot of money.
And its not just that, racing often involves breaking things. Yes some people never do, but it happens so it makes running costs an issue if on a budget.
I also really enjoy bashing with RC cars and the race ones are just too fragile and require to much maintenance after a while.
Last year when I started looking into getting a new RC car and getting back into it I looked around at some of the current 1/10th buggies and trucks.
After picking out a kit and deciding that my old 27MHz radio gear could do with updating. And I might as well go brushless, so new motor and ESC and new charger and cells. I simply couldn't believe the price it all added up too.
For £500 you could buy a Series III Landy with MOT and tax. For £20 you can go an enter a real car in a competitive competition. This is cheaper than getting all the gear you really need for a descent RC setup.
This is why I think its important to make the distinction clear between bashing and racing and why I looked at 1/18th scale cars.
I think the op should do the same, a descent 1/18th buggy/truck will be well within budget and if you buy the right one there is likely to be a race series they can enter them in if they want. Especially with winter approaching and the popularity of indoor carpet racing.
BTW - what do you race at present?
Emsman said:
Tamiya.
Vanessas lunchbox
Cheap, fun, tough, runs on grass easily
Spares no problem
I concur!Vanessas lunchbox
Cheap, fun, tough, runs on grass easily
Spares no problem
A single decent 4600mAh battery will run for about an hour (and that is a LOT in R/C terms).
Loads of fun, cheap to buy, crash and repair - above all, a great intro to the hobby before deciding whether you want to get more serious about it.
I considered all sorts at prices up to £500 not long ago - going with a Lunchbox was the best decision I could've made.
The_Jackal said:
I think the most important requirement these days would have to be a 2.4Ghz radio set.
It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
That's my next purchase I think, but I can't find any reasonably priced stick handsets. The cheap ones are all pistol grip style.It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
Oh, and I need waterproof receivers...
300bhp/ton said:
BTW - what do you race at present?
Indoor - Xray T2 008; Novak 13.5 brushless and speedo; Reedy LiPo; Futaba 2.4GHz (stick - as I've never understood this trigger stuff!!)I'm looking to go 4WD off roading again next year so started to get the bits now, step by step.
When complete it will be the Durango DEX410 chassis; Novak 5.5 Brushless and speedo; Reedy LiPo again and the beauty of my Futaba 2.4 is that I can have up to 8 different settings so I only need another receiver
Contray to what I said in my previous posts, this is all very expensive, but having raced for over 30 years I deserve to treat myself from time to time. The DEX410 chassis is just sex on 4 little wheels - check it out here...
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/reviewdurangodex410...
OMG
I still go weak at the knees every time I ready that report...I want one
I want one
(Over £400 for the chassis - but worth every penny me thinks)
That'll keep me sorted for indoors and out for a while me thinks
The_Jackal said:
I think the most important requirement these days would have to be a 2.4Ghz radio set.
It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
I will second that, and third it too.It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
Best purchase I made last year
plus you don't have those horrible aerials coming out of the bodyshell now so even the car has cleaner lines too...HereBeMonsters said:
The_Jackal said:
I think the most important requirement these days would have to be a 2.4Ghz radio set.
It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
That's my next purchase I think, but I can't find any reasonably priced stick handsets. The cheap ones are all pistol grip style.It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
Oh, and I need waterproof receivers...
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpec...
It's what I use and is a mighty fine piece of kit.
motormania said:
HereBeMonsters said:
The_Jackal said:
I think the most important requirement these days would have to be a 2.4Ghz radio set.
It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
That's my next purchase I think, but I can't find any reasonably priced stick handsets. The cheap ones are all pistol grip style.It doesnt matter how expensive your kit is, if someone puts in the same crystal god know what will happen, especially in a park. Even at races you still get people that ignore the pegboard.
Oh, and I need waterproof receivers...
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpec...
It's what I use and is a mighty fine piece of kit.
motormania said:
300bhp/ton said:
BTW - what do you race at present?
Indoor - Xray T2 008; Novak 13.5 brushless and speedo; Reedy LiPo; Futaba 2.4GHz (stick - as I've never understood this trigger stuff!!)I'm looking to go 4WD off roading again next year so started to get the bits now, step by step.
When complete it will be the Durango DEX410 chassis; Novak 5.5 Brushless and speedo; Reedy LiPo again and the beauty of my Futaba 2.4 is that I can have up to 8 different settings so I only need another receiver
Contray to what I said in my previous posts, this is all very expensive, but having raced for over 30 years I deserve to treat myself from time to time. The DEX410 chassis is just sex on 4 little wheels - check it out here...
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/reviewdurangodex410...
OMG
I still go weak at the knees every time I ready that report...I want one
I want one
(Over £400 for the chassis - but worth every penny me thinks)
That'll keep me sorted for indoors and out for a while me thinks
Going back to the original post somewhat, just some info required please..?
Are these 'Ready to Run' kits any good? Somebody mentioned the Mad Rat? Can they be upgraded reasonably easy? Spares?
I never had a 'proper' RC car as couldnt really afford one, but was quite into buying mags etc in the 90s. Back then most ready to run cars were not well respected at all, and I suppose the reasonable kits started at £80 and then another £60 for a 'starter deal' or whatever.
To be honest if I did get something it'd just be to mess around with in the garden or elsewhere for 20 minutes (two batteries worth?) and then go do something else until I am next in the mood. I dont want something that is going to need constant care or whatever.
Ideally I'd want a 2wd, probably a pickup but would be happy with a buggy.
Anyone?
Are these 'Ready to Run' kits any good? Somebody mentioned the Mad Rat? Can they be upgraded reasonably easy? Spares?
I never had a 'proper' RC car as couldnt really afford one, but was quite into buying mags etc in the 90s. Back then most ready to run cars were not well respected at all, and I suppose the reasonable kits started at £80 and then another £60 for a 'starter deal' or whatever.
To be honest if I did get something it'd just be to mess around with in the garden or elsewhere for 20 minutes (two batteries worth?) and then go do something else until I am next in the mood. I dont want something that is going to need constant care or whatever.
Ideally I'd want a 2wd, probably a pickup but would be happy with a buggy.
Anyone?
Emsman said:
Going back to the original thread.....
Vannessas lunchbox.
£80-£90
2 batteries will last well over an hour.
It will run on grass with ease
Spares are cheap, and available.
It can easily be upgraded.
Your child will love it.
The end
seems perfect for the op then, but remember you will never be able to race it at the club, altough i did once at a rwyb day!Vannessas lunchbox.
£80-£90
2 batteries will last well over an hour.
It will run on grass with ease
Spares are cheap, and available.
It can easily be upgraded.
Your child will love it.
The end
Gompo said:
Going back to the original post somewhat, just some info required please..?
Are these 'Ready to Run' kits any good? Somebody mentioned the Mad Rat? Can they be upgraded reasonably easy? Spares?
I never had a 'proper' RC car as couldnt really afford one, but was quite into buying mags etc in the 90s. Back then most ready to run cars were not well respected at all, and I suppose the reasonable kits started at £80 and then another £60 for a 'starter deal' or whatever.
To be honest if I did get something it'd just be to mess around with in the garden or elsewhere for 20 minutes (two batteries worth?) and then go do something else until I am next in the mood. I dont want something that is going to need constant care or whatever.
Ideally I'd want a 2wd, probably a pickup but would be happy with a buggy.
Anyone?
IMO the Tamiya stuff is no good for racing, unless some of the on road stuff in "one make" series. Overall they are pretty plasticky, slow, often use very out dated tech (even for the mid 90's) and expensive to upgrade. Also once upgraded they are still quite far behind other makes.Are these 'Ready to Run' kits any good? Somebody mentioned the Mad Rat? Can they be upgraded reasonably easy? Spares?
I never had a 'proper' RC car as couldnt really afford one, but was quite into buying mags etc in the 90s. Back then most ready to run cars were not well respected at all, and I suppose the reasonable kits started at £80 and then another £60 for a 'starter deal' or whatever.
To be honest if I did get something it'd just be to mess around with in the garden or elsewhere for 20 minutes (two batteries worth?) and then go do something else until I am next in the mood. I dont want something that is going to need constant care or whatever.
Ideally I'd want a 2wd, probably a pickup but would be happy with a buggy.
Anyone?
~This may be hard on them, but its how I see them. Yes they are cool and great for the garden, but that's as far as I can see them going.
The ready to run kit or ready to race kits from Traxxas, Schumacher, Losi and some of the other big names are all pretty good. That said they are still not full out race machines, so while you can compete, you may not be as competitive as in a purpose built racing machine.
This is usually down to weight, tuning and adjustability. Most bashers are designed to be tough, most race cars are deigned to be fast and setup for any condition.
I dont want anything I can race, I just dont want a load of rubbish basically. Something I can buy for less than £150 that is fun, durable and not difficult to get spares for should the inevitable happen.
I dont necessarily want something that is 'Ready to X', but there seems to be a lot more of these than there was 15 years ago (Tamiya Quickdrive was about the only one, and were below this price level). RTR cars seem to be more respected than they were - just want to know if this respect it deserved and the names of a few particular cars/trucks which are recommended.
I dont necessarily want something that is 'Ready to X', but there seems to be a lot more of these than there was 15 years ago (Tamiya Quickdrive was about the only one, and were below this price level). RTR cars seem to be more respected than they were - just want to know if this respect it deserved and the names of a few particular cars/trucks which are recommended.
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