RAF Camouflage ?

[dr_gn]

Trying to figure out whether my Spitfire Mk. 22 (No.613 Sqdn, Serial PK596 RAT-L, Ringway, 1949) had yellow leading edges or not.

According to Revell's painting instructions, it shouldn't, but according to Alfred Price's 'Spitfire Story', a 3-view suggests it should. I have found two b&w photographs of that aircraft, neither of which shows the leading edges clearly. I think I'll paint them on anyway, because it adds a bit of colour, but really just wondered why RAF aircraft (and some other AF's) had yellow leading edges? Presumably for distinguishing/identification purposes? Same with the yellow edged fuselage roundels?

I often wondered why go to all the trouble of camouflaging an aircraft, and then sticking huge identification symbols on them?

Cheers for any info.

[SlipStream77]

I quite like this kind of research

Hopefully, one of these links may help...

Quite a lot of markings here, 2 22's, both with yellow LE's.

http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=72107&a...

The 613sqdrn 22 illustrated here also has yellow LE's and yellow on the roundel.

http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark611-614.htm

Here's PK624, another 22 that's being restored, the roundel has yellow again but the LE can't be seen.

http://www.fighter-collection.com/pages/aircraft/s...

There is a wiki entry on roundels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_round...

This is a general Spitfire site that looked really interesting

http://www.spitfiresite.com/

I don't know the reason for the yellow LE's and I couldn't find any info indicating the reasons.

It does seem odd to use camo and then put a roundel on the aircraft, it reminds me of hunters that dress in ghillie suits and then put on a bright orange vest so they don't get shot.

[Eric Mc]

Kit instructions are notoriouisly unreliable. If at all possible, try and find a photo of the actual aircraft. There usually is at least one around - after all, from where did the decal manufacturer get their original information?

Regarding yellow (and other) ID markings, there is a conflict between the need to hide an aircraft from the enemy and the need to prevent your own side from misidentifying it. That is why you get these funny painting arrangements.
There were quite a few elements to Allied fighter aircraft wcolours which compromised the base camouflage patters -

yellow leading edges to the wing (as mentioned above)

black and white "zebra" stripes - as painted for D Day, but also used in a different form on Typhhons two years earlier.

white tail marking used on RAF and RAAF fighter aircraft in the far east

the Sky band painted on many fighter aircraft from 1941 onwards

The Axis powers also used bright ID markings. The "yellow nose" Messerschmitt 109s became very famous. The Japanese also painted yellow stripes on the wing leading edges.

[Evangelion]

According to Wikipedia, 'D-Day stripes' were also used during the Koren WAr in 1950 and the Suez Crisis in 1956.

[Eric Mc]

Evangelion said:

According to Wikipedia, 'D-Day stripes' were also used during the Koren WAr in 1950 and the Suez Crisis in 1956.

The same idea has been used a number of times. The stripes used at Suez were yellow and black rather than white and black.

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

Evangelion said:

According to Wikipedia, 'D-Day stripes' were also used during the Koren WAr in 1950 and the Suez Crisis in 1956.

The same idea has been used a number of times. The stripes used at Suez were yellow and black rather than white and black.

I guess in the case of 'invasion stripes', the name implies the reason that identification is more important than camoflague: Chances are there wouldn't be much opposition from the air, but there might be confusion from your own ground forces being overflown by aircraft in a situation where the 'lines' or fronts are constantly changing?

[Eric Mc]

During the second Gulf War, land vehicles were painted with a black "V" shape on their top surfaces as an ID for overflying coalition force aircraft. This proved not to be very effective.

[dr_gn]

SlipStream77 said:

I quite like this kind of research

Hopefully, one of these links may help...

Quite a lot of markings here, 2 22's, both with yellow LE's.

http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=72107&a...

The 613sqdrn 22 illustrated here also has yellow LE's and yellow on the roundel.

http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark611-614.htm

Here's PK624, another 22 that's being restored, the roundel has yellow again but the LE can't be seen.

http://www.fighter-collection.com/pages/aircraft/s...

There is a wiki entry on roundels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_round...

This is a general Spitfire site that looked really interesting

http://www.spitfiresite.com/

I don't know the reason for the yellow LE's and I couldn't find any info indicating the reasons.

It does seem odd to use camo and then put a roundel on the aircraft, it reminds me of hunters that dress in ghillie suits and then put on a bright orange vest so they don't get shot.

Hmm,

That's confusing. The 73 Sqdn. Mk.22 in your first link is shown with yellow stripes, and is also one of the decal options on the Revell sheet, but on there it has no yellow.

My actual aircraft is drawn in your second link, and has yellow stripes (again, opposite to the Revell scheme), but is missing some bits of insignia, so might not be accurate.

I wonder if different aircraft in the same squadron had different schemes in this area. Somehow doubt it, so I'll assume the Revell scheme is wrong and put the stripes on.

Nobody will know any better anyway!

Thanks for the links - all very useful.

Edited by dr_gn on Thursday 19th November 21:58

[Eric Mc]

Although back in those days, aircraft often had fairly short lives - less than a year sometimes, it is amazing how often details of their colour schemes changed.
I recently made a model of Roland Beamont's 609 Squadron Typhoon (PR-G). The aircraft was in service barely over a year but it had at least six permutations of its basic colour scheme - particularly regarding the yellow ID panels and leading edge stripes it caried.

Maybe ALL the achemes you have seen for your Spitfire are correct.

[SlipStream77]

I was researching for one of my models when I found this website showing colour charts for RAF schemes and to which model paints they correspond.

Someone may find them useful

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng...

ETA The whole site looks really useful.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/

Edited by SlipStream77 on Sunday 22 November 01:36

[Eric Mc]

I flagged these up on another thread somewhere.

They are very useful but they are not perfect.

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

I flagged these up on another thread somewhere.

They are very useful but they are not perfect.

It was here, page 4, posts 14 & 15:

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...

Found another conversion chart via. Britmodeller, not checked it, but might be OK:

http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/paintconver...

If in doubt - guess!