VTS Saxo phase1/mk1 1.6. Future classic?
Discussion
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The VTS' second gear was taller in relation to the rest of the ratios, maybe not taller overall than the VTR's, but then it always felt taller because you could hang on the revs much longer. They only set the ratios to make sure it could hit 60mph in second gear, which it can....just. That made the 7.2sec 0-60mph time, and if you changed up before 60mph (like they did in the 106 GTi to keep insurance groups down) you ended up more with a low 8.I found the VTS more fun than my S1 Rallye, to be honest. The Rallye had more character, for sure, and in 10/10th's driving it was a better chassis setup in terms of feel, but in normal everyday driving the extra grunt of the Saxo made up for it.
I find the AX GT probably the most fun out of all of them, if I'm honest.
I bought a brand new 106 Gti back in the day. I did not consider the saxo at all, despite Citroen offering free insurance and low rate finance. To me then and now the 106 was worth the premium. The Peugeot was cooler, far better looking, much nicer inside, rarer, just a much nicer package, plus it was in Clarksons book: Top 100 Cars Of All Time.
My feelings are the same today. For that reason I wouldn't buy one over the Pug for a long term bet.
My feelings are the same today. For that reason I wouldn't buy one over the Pug for a long term bet.
I owned a 52 plate vts from new for a few years and my brother had a 02 vtr and in my opinion:
The cars are miles apart in terms of speed, the vtr was much slower and feel dull, vts on the other hand felt like a can of fizzy pop in the way the engine looked to rev and reward.
I also owned a lovely 106gti, felt more premium but i never liked the wheels or the dash as much as the citroen
I didn't and still don't give vtr's a second look, however a vts will still get my attention, guess it's the wheels, oh and the lovely 16v badges that set it off...
The cars are miles apart in terms of speed, the vtr was much slower and feel dull, vts on the other hand felt like a can of fizzy pop in the way the engine looked to rev and reward.
I also owned a lovely 106gti, felt more premium but i never liked the wheels or the dash as much as the citroen
I didn't and still don't give vtr's a second look, however a vts will still get my attention, guess it's the wheels, oh and the lovely 16v badges that set it off...
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I'm sorry but this is just not the case. I had a 2001 VTR, bought new, then traded it in for one of the last, 2003 VTS, again bought new.The difference in outright power may have been "only" 22BHP, but when your talking cars making around 100hp, that's a massive difference, but the difference in performance was staggering.
The weekend after I bought the VTS I ran it down the quarter mile at York Raceway, and it ran a 15.4, and a standard VTS would zip round to an indicated 140mph when they were new.
2 seconds to 60' and 6-7 seconds to 100 is an ocean in terms of performance, but that's the difference between a VTS and VTR.
Pezonee said:
This Thread is about the phase 1 VTS becoming a future classic, For some reason its turning into a debate between the VTS and VTR...
We all know the VTS is rarer and better so can we just forget about the vtr for now???
Hopefully, because the VTR was crap.We all know the VTS is rarer and better so can we just forget about the vtr for now???
The engine was a perfectly decent 8v lump, but the gearbox ratios killed its performance.
f1nn said:
VTR were far from crap, Just not in the same league as the VTS performance wise. They were comparable to anything else in its sector and better than most.
Clean, original VTR's will become sought after in the next 3-5 years I'd wager.
Agree regards the performance, but I don't think VTRs will ever be anything like as desirable as the VTS. Nobody lusts after an AX Forte, or a 106 XSi over an AX GTi or 106 Rallye, do they? I'm sure they'll climb out of bangerdom some day, but I think the VTS will leave it for dead, values wise. And then in turn, the Peugeots will leave the Saxo for dead.Clean, original VTR's will become sought after in the next 3-5 years I'd wager.
Pezonee said:
This Thread is about the phase 1 VTS becoming a future classic, For some reason its turning into a debate between the VTS and VTR...
We all know the VTS is rarer and better so can we just forget about the vtr for now???
Because I drew a valid (IMO) comparison between the VTR and VTS, and my opinion is that the VTR will hamper the VTS' value in the future as it makes the hot hatch Saxo less rare, on the whole. The only thing the VTR has going for it will be nostalgia, but then how many people owned a Cavalier 1.6GL, and how many want one now? Nostalgia isn't the complete story.We all know the VTS is rarer and better so can we just forget about the vtr for now???
Not sure why you're getting upset over it, it's all relevant.
Kitchski said:
Agree regards the performance, but I don't think VTRs will ever be anything like as desirable as the VTS. Nobody lusts after an AX Forte, or a 106 XSi over an AX GTi or 106 Rallye, do they? I'm sure they'll climb out of bangerdom some day, but I think the VTS will leave it for dead, values wise. And then in turn, the Peugeots will leave the Saxo for dead.
Hmm, I'm not so sure. It's not as if the 8v Golf GTI Mk2 is worthless, nor the 1.6 205GTi, nor the Nova SR......all were lesser versions of "hotter" cars, all gone through and came out of of the other side to a greater or lesser degree of their banger stage.i think the same will happen with the Saxo's eventually.
Kitchski said:
Agree regards the performance, but I don't think VTRs will ever be anything like as desirable as the VTS. Nobody lusts after an AX Forte, or a 106 XSi over an AX GTi or 106 Rallye, do they?
Unless the few I've seen are just unrealistic sellers 106 Rallye's command a huge premium over GTIs.f1nn said:
Hmm, I'm not so sure. It's not as if the 8v Golf GTI Mk2 is worthless, nor the 1.6 205GTi, nor the Nova SR......all were lesser versions of "hotter" cars, all gone through and came out of of the other side to a greater or lesser degree of their banger stage.
i think the same will happen with the Saxo's eventually.
Maybe you're right. I hope you are! i think the same will happen with the Saxo's eventually.
Sorry to resurect this thread, but i found it via google, read the whole thing, and have to say theres some very interesting points of view here.
Reason i was looking is because ive just bought a 98 series 1 VTR.
I bought it for my son as his first car, he’s still 16 so I have no clue how he even knows what a VTR is.
After searching autotrader, eBay, etc it soon became apparent that these cars are getting rare, and those that are available are abused ones, clinging on to their mot’s.
However, one car jumped out at me, a completely unmolested example with full history. For the price I payed I’m more than happy, I’m just counting my blessings he likes old cars, so many of his age aspire to a late model, low insurance group car , that would cost far more to buy.
He knows it’s rare and I’m sure will look after it more because of that. Everyone remembers their first car, so I’m just glad he’ll be driving something that’s a little different from most of his age.
As for the OP’s original question, I’d say the VTR will most definitely be a classic, maybe it already is.
Reason i was looking is because ive just bought a 98 series 1 VTR.
I bought it for my son as his first car, he’s still 16 so I have no clue how he even knows what a VTR is.
After searching autotrader, eBay, etc it soon became apparent that these cars are getting rare, and those that are available are abused ones, clinging on to their mot’s.
However, one car jumped out at me, a completely unmolested example with full history. For the price I payed I’m more than happy, I’m just counting my blessings he likes old cars, so many of his age aspire to a late model, low insurance group car , that would cost far more to buy.
He knows it’s rare and I’m sure will look after it more because of that. Everyone remembers their first car, so I’m just glad he’ll be driving something that’s a little different from most of his age.
As for the OP’s original question, I’d say the VTR will most definitely be a classic, maybe it already is.
Have you had any insurance quotes, I would of thought it would be rather expensive. My son is 17 soon and I'm currently weighing up his options so this interests me if it's less then 2k to insure.
One thing that does worry me though is the safety of these, I had a vts and 106 GTi and I know they are like sardine cans, I know from experience! I'm pretty sure they were like only 1 or 2 star ncap.
One thing that does worry me though is the safety of these, I had a vts and 106 GTi and I know they are like sardine cans, I know from experience! I'm pretty sure they were like only 1 or 2 star ncap.
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