VTS Saxo phase1/mk1 1.6. Future classic?
Discussion
Pezonee said:
HerrSchnell said:
All other aspects aside the basic problem you have here is that when you say 205 most people have this picture in their head:
When you say Saxo VTS this picture happens:
Mmmmmmm that 205!!! Not into body kits n all that crap. When you say Saxo VTS this picture happens:
Its faster than 205 though
DegsyE39 said:
Its easy to say the cars are associated with barry boys too much... but it wasnt long ago that most R5 turbos looked like this.
Look at the prices of a clean unmodified R5 GT turbo now..
Dont be so sure that an unmolested VTS/VTR will stay at £700 for ever
However R5s also looked like this;Look at the prices of a clean unmodified R5 GT turbo now..
Dont be so sure that an unmolested VTS/VTR will stay at £700 for ever
and were never molested in the kinds of numbers which the Saxo was.
The R5 is part of a first generation of it's particular niche with a broad motorsport heritage behind it, the ruination of a relatively small number of the type hasn't polluted those elements of it's history which lead to it's current status as modern classic.
The Saxo VTS enjoys neither the honour of being part of a trailbreaking group nor of an association with flame spitting halo breed racers whilst also having been the de facto choice for barryfication and thus any merits it may have are overshadowed by the whiff of McDonalds car parks and fibreglass resin.
Snobby, fickle and unfair it may be but that is the nature of the game.
Rensko said:
They were never sold here in Australia - but have seen plenty on the roads in Euroland over the years.
To me, they are the younger brother of the 205 GTI. Yes, it evokes memories of a cheap, quick car which many had in their "youf" - but it will never be the ground breaking classic of which the 205 really instllled a sense of awesomeness and desirability amongst petrol heads. Prices will go up, as finding an "un-f*cked" one eventually will be nigh on impossible.
They just don't do it for me. A Mk1 Clio 172 on the other hand - I predict future classic there...
But it looks like a yellow blob of snotTo me, they are the younger brother of the 205 GTI. Yes, it evokes memories of a cheap, quick car which many had in their "youf" - but it will never be the ground breaking classic of which the 205 really instllled a sense of awesomeness and desirability amongst petrol heads. Prices will go up, as finding an "un-f*cked" one eventually will be nigh on impossible.
They just don't do it for me. A Mk1 Clio 172 on the other hand - I predict future classic there...
Rensko said:
They were never sold here in Australia - but have seen plenty on the roads in Euroland over the years.
To me, they are the younger brother of the 205 GTI. Yes, it evokes memories of a cheap, quick car which many had in their "youf" - but it will never be the ground breaking classic of which the 205 really instllled a sense of awesomeness and desirability amongst petrol heads. Prices will go up, as finding an "un-f*cked" one eventually will be nigh on impossible.
They just don't do it for me. A Mk1 Clio 172 on the other hand - I predict future classic there...
Hardly much of a prediction though. Its like predicting christmas is going to fall on 25th Dec.To me, they are the younger brother of the 205 GTI. Yes, it evokes memories of a cheap, quick car which many had in their "youf" - but it will never be the ground breaking classic of which the 205 really instllled a sense of awesomeness and desirability amongst petrol heads. Prices will go up, as finding an "un-f*cked" one eventually will be nigh on impossible.
They just don't do it for me. A Mk1 Clio 172 on the other hand - I predict future classic there...
Pezonee said:
I think its a future classic going on Clarksons old review i found on youtube.
But im not sure if its old enough for me as i love the 205.
Still a nice looking car though i kind of see it as a newer shape 205 thats why i put pepperpots on her.
Do they look s**t??![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/VHLEa24g.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/aD0OCTXk" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/aD0OCTXk.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/0GUbjfJH" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/0GUbjfJH.jpg)
Yes. They will. But im not sure if its old enough for me as i love the 205.
Still a nice looking car though i kind of see it as a newer shape 205 thats why i put pepperpots on her.
Do they look s**t??
Mint, relatively low miles, original cars will.
That one wont with those wheels and the aftermarket sunroof.
I don't think that is an aftermarket sunroof, they tilted and slid over the roof on these. Also, that's a facelift mk1, the first cars had a different grill.
The 205GTI wheels need to go, to be replaced with either of the correct speed line wheels, either in 14 or 15 inch depending on when the car was made. That'll be either a 98 or 99 car, with the 15" wheel being introduced in mid 99 and running through to the end of production in 2003.
I had a VTR new in 2001, and a VTS which was one of the last registered in 2003. Great cars.
lazy, stupid people like to trot out the "too common" and "Chavved up" points of view, forgetting that the 205 and R5 equally went through these phases 10 years earlier.
As to the too common thing, 3 years ago I would have agreed with you, but now definitely not. They reached the bottom and in this age of dirt cheap lease and PCP's most got thrown away....I'd actually class them as a rare car now.
So will a clean, standard or sympathetically modified Saxo VTS become a classic? Absolutely no doubt in my mind that they will. The values will get dragged up as the 205's and R5's go through the roof, and what you will see is modified cars getting bought and returned back to standard, just like we have with the Older French stuff.
mark my words, in 10 years time there will be more "barn finds" than actual barns.
The 205GTI wheels need to go, to be replaced with either of the correct speed line wheels, either in 14 or 15 inch depending on when the car was made. That'll be either a 98 or 99 car, with the 15" wheel being introduced in mid 99 and running through to the end of production in 2003.
I had a VTR new in 2001, and a VTS which was one of the last registered in 2003. Great cars.
lazy, stupid people like to trot out the "too common" and "Chavved up" points of view, forgetting that the 205 and R5 equally went through these phases 10 years earlier.
As to the too common thing, 3 years ago I would have agreed with you, but now definitely not. They reached the bottom and in this age of dirt cheap lease and PCP's most got thrown away....I'd actually class them as a rare car now.
So will a clean, standard or sympathetically modified Saxo VTS become a classic? Absolutely no doubt in my mind that they will. The values will get dragged up as the 205's and R5's go through the roof, and what you will see is modified cars getting bought and returned back to standard, just like we have with the Older French stuff.
mark my words, in 10 years time there will be more "barn finds" than actual barns.
''and were never molested in the kinds of numbers which the Saxo was.''
Come again mate?
I think they easily got as molested as the saxo's did.. Okay i agree they might not have the motorsport history, But neither did the 106 rallye and look which way those prices are going
But i think its like old escorts i know they do have excellent motorsport credentials, But its about middle aged blokes re-living their youth.
I know quite a few lads in engineering who had saxo's and keep folders of pictures of the cars etc. When these guys end up about 40 and want to relive their youth what will they buy? And by this point how many good ones will survive?
Obviously i dont have a crystal ball, Some say they will be a classic some say otherwise, The image of a saxo is terrible.. But a cossie was a chav car not long ago.
Guess we'll see
Come again mate?
I think they easily got as molested as the saxo's did.. Okay i agree they might not have the motorsport history, But neither did the 106 rallye and look which way those prices are going
But i think its like old escorts i know they do have excellent motorsport credentials, But its about middle aged blokes re-living their youth.
I know quite a few lads in engineering who had saxo's and keep folders of pictures of the cars etc. When these guys end up about 40 and want to relive their youth what will they buy? And by this point how many good ones will survive?
Obviously i dont have a crystal ball, Some say they will be a classic some say otherwise, The image of a saxo is terrible.. But a cossie was a chav car not long ago.
Guess we'll see
Edited by DegsyE39 on Sunday 10th July 13:31
TankRizzo said:
Every R5 Turbo I used to see was modified in some way.
There is no doubt to me that the Saxo VTS will rise in value, but only for the cleanest standard examples.
I had a VTS in '98 with the infamous LAD 160bhp engine conversion. It was a great little car.
Do you remember the twin engined R5 Turbo that was in max power sometime in the early 2000's? There is no doubt to me that the Saxo VTS will rise in value, but only for the cleanest standard examples.
I had a VTS in '98 with the infamous LAD 160bhp engine conversion. It was a great little car.
Wouldnt of fancied crashing it...
Pezonee said:
daemon said:
Yes. They will.
Mint, relatively low miles, original cars will.
That one wont with those wheels and the aftermarket sunroof.
Great little car and the longer bonnet looks niceMint, relatively low miles, original cars will.
That one wont with those wheels and the aftermarket sunroof.
Good job i still have original alloys then, as for the sunroof thats how it left the factory.
Cant see you being able to retire on the proceeds of it any time soon, but look after it and you could make a bit come resale time.
The 106 already is isnt it? They never seemed to get properly cheap like the Saxo's are. I think like the BX gti by the time anybody started coveting them there'll be so few examples around they'll just fade out of conciousness besides turning up at french car shows driven by ruddy faced old men.
I have great memories of my Saxo VTS - bought it brand new.
Looked to be a similar car to the old 205/309 GTis that I'd enjoyed in my late teens/early 20s.
Test drove the 106gti as well ( although the Peugeot dealers weren't as cooperative as the Citroen dealers when it came to trying the actual demo cars )
In the end, the substantially better deal on the Saxo ( £1500 cheaper taking into account trade-in, purchase price etc ) was reason enough to go Citroen bearing in mind the only thing that I preferred on the 106 was the seat fabric.
Car was delivered in mid April 99 and was actually the first VTS at the dealer on the new 15" twists. I preferred the 14" 'soupbowls', so wanting it to drive just like the demo car I'd tried and loved, one lucky VTR owner whose car arrived on the same transporter got a free wheel upgrade.
Never regretted the smaller wheels - also enabled me to see where a lot of the 'supposed' handling differences came from with reference to the 106gti when I had to get a set of the Pug Pirellis fitted when the Michelin SXGTs were in short supply.
Really enjoyed it on several trips to the South of France/Italy - the suspension set up was well tuned to the roads in these areas - not surprising - but it was also a brilliant fun car on trips through Wales to the coast etc
Never modded it apart from a Momo gear knob and the usual polished metal Peugeot fuel cap which resisted scuffing off the car better than the factory painted plastic one.
Only things that went wrong in 4 years were a failing lambda sensor ( quite common ) and a plastic side skirt clip - all done under warranty. Did have quite an appetite for tyres but that might have been down to enjoying the excellent handling and lift off adjustment cornering. Managed a few mid 40 mpg figures cruising back through France on the autoroutes - felt a light car 'on its toes' in the corners. Aircon would have been nice in the South of France but the sunroof and rear quarter vents enabled a good through flow of ventilation even with the front side windows shut
Rarely see a standard VTS now - were an excellent little car from my viewpoint
Looked to be a similar car to the old 205/309 GTis that I'd enjoyed in my late teens/early 20s.
Test drove the 106gti as well ( although the Peugeot dealers weren't as cooperative as the Citroen dealers when it came to trying the actual demo cars )
In the end, the substantially better deal on the Saxo ( £1500 cheaper taking into account trade-in, purchase price etc ) was reason enough to go Citroen bearing in mind the only thing that I preferred on the 106 was the seat fabric.
Car was delivered in mid April 99 and was actually the first VTS at the dealer on the new 15" twists. I preferred the 14" 'soupbowls', so wanting it to drive just like the demo car I'd tried and loved, one lucky VTR owner whose car arrived on the same transporter got a free wheel upgrade.
Never regretted the smaller wheels - also enabled me to see where a lot of the 'supposed' handling differences came from with reference to the 106gti when I had to get a set of the Pug Pirellis fitted when the Michelin SXGTs were in short supply.
Really enjoyed it on several trips to the South of France/Italy - the suspension set up was well tuned to the roads in these areas - not surprising - but it was also a brilliant fun car on trips through Wales to the coast etc
Never modded it apart from a Momo gear knob and the usual polished metal Peugeot fuel cap which resisted scuffing off the car better than the factory painted plastic one.
Only things that went wrong in 4 years were a failing lambda sensor ( quite common ) and a plastic side skirt clip - all done under warranty. Did have quite an appetite for tyres but that might have been down to enjoying the excellent handling and lift off adjustment cornering. Managed a few mid 40 mpg figures cruising back through France on the autoroutes - felt a light car 'on its toes' in the corners. Aircon would have been nice in the South of France but the sunroof and rear quarter vents enabled a good through flow of ventilation even with the front side windows shut
Rarely see a standard VTS now - were an excellent little car from my viewpoint
TankRizzo said:
There is no doubt to me that the Saxo VTS will rise in value, but only for the cleanest standard examples.
I'd say it was already happening. And, yes, that caveat is vital. I hope you've kept the standard alloys, OP - although there are plenty of sets about.205GTi values are already silly, and AX GT values are definitely well on the way.
As with many an affordable quick car, there'll be plenty either crashed or badly modified or both. So a standard low mileage example would eventually appreciate in value and opinion.
In my driving lifetime I've seen the Saxo rise as the new hot hatch of choice, get ruined by BarryBoy types and now they're pretty rare so I could see a nice one being seen in the same light as a standard Renault 5 GT Turbo or Pug 205 GTI.
MKI Clio 172 has potential too, as will the 182 Trophy and I'd like to think the relative rarity of the Twingo 133 would see similar kudos but who knows.
Given enough time any relatively rare, older car will obtain some kind of credibility. When I was first driving an old MKIII Escort was ten a penny and a white XR3i was deemed a bit naff. Find one now and they're worth a good chunk of money.
In my driving lifetime I've seen the Saxo rise as the new hot hatch of choice, get ruined by BarryBoy types and now they're pretty rare so I could see a nice one being seen in the same light as a standard Renault 5 GT Turbo or Pug 205 GTI.
MKI Clio 172 has potential too, as will the 182 Trophy and I'd like to think the relative rarity of the Twingo 133 would see similar kudos but who knows.
Given enough time any relatively rare, older car will obtain some kind of credibility. When I was first driving an old MKIII Escort was ten a penny and a white XR3i was deemed a bit naff. Find one now and they're worth a good chunk of money.
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