Why do French manufacturers not care?

[Wadaboo]

Don't get too high-and-mighty about the Volvo. I have a V60, so essentially a very similar car to your XC40, and twice in the last 3 years the steering wheel controls have started behaving erratically and needed a trip to the dealer to fix - for what it's worth, the dealer said it was just a reset of the respective control module, although I suspected an actual hardware issue.

As others have said, it is a little harsh comparing the Renault to a Volvo though, which generally is regarded above it on the manufacturer 'ladder', I think it is fair to say.

Focusing on the Volvo though as that is where my experience lies, I have had several things need replacing under warranty so I am a little apprehensive about ownership outside of warranty. The niceties which comes with better technology tends to come at a price down the line!

[C70R]

dibblecorse said:

C70R said:

Should spending less mean that I should just put up with a rubbish driving position?

Shouldn't a 'good enough' driving position be par for the course with all cars in 2022? Not least with one that would have cost £26k if I'd bought it new?

One mans rubbish driving position is another mans perfection .... you didn't like the car, it wasn't to your liking, plenty of others may well feel the same way about your car, its hardly worth a rant and a dig at the french is it ?

It was more using this car as an example of the things that have frustrated me about most French cars I've driven.

It's just like they don't care about the basics.

[kambites]

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

At least it has physical buttons; it looks infinitely superior to having to do it through a touchscreen or capacative buttons!

[InitialDave]

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

I don't see the issue. They work fine, and I don't want a "better" solution, as that's what leads to touchscreens and non-tactile controls for things.
Yes, maybe they are a bit too cheap plastic, but simple, easy to operate by feel controls are my preference.

So the same thing in better materials is all I'd ask for.

Other than that, I had a Captur hire car recently, and it really was uninspiringly generic. Diesel with the auto, utter liability trying to get of junctions with any kind of alacrity.

But they suit the type of people who buy them.

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

It was more using this car as an example of the things that have frustrated me about most French cars I've driven.

It's just like they don't care about the basics.

I don't think the Kadjar's driving position is particularly French. It is the same as a Nissan Qashqai (same platform) which is made in the UK.

[C70R]

nickfrog said:

C70R said:

It was more using this car as an example of the things that have frustrated me about most French cars I've driven.

It's just like they don't care about the basics.

I don't think the Kadjar's driving position is particularly French. It is the same as a Nissan Qashqai (same platform) which is made in the UK.

But was presumably designed jointly between the French and Japanese if it's a platform-share?

[C70R]

kambites said:

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

At least it has physical buttons; it looks infinitely superior to having to do it through a touchscreen or capacative buttons!

That block thing just feels like a classic, French 'we're going to do it differently for the sake of it' exercise.

A bit like the C5/6 steering wheel, where the centre didn't rotate with the rim.

[Challo]

C70R said:

dibblecorse said:

C70R said:

Should spending less mean that I should just put up with a rubbish driving position?

Shouldn't a 'good enough' driving position be par for the course with all cars in 2022? Not least with one that would have cost £26k if I'd bought it new?

One mans rubbish driving position is another mans perfection .... you didn't like the car, it wasn't to your liking, plenty of others may well feel the same way about your car, its hardly worth a rant and a dig at the french is it ?

It was more using this car as an example of the things that have frustrated me about most French cars I've driven.

It's just like they don't care about the basics.

But thats your opinion. If you look at Dacia which is a Renault in basic form and they are flying out the dealership.

Renault will be building cars to what their customers want and seems to be doing ok.

[Krikkit]

C70R said:

The point is that I can technically do it on both.

On the Volvo, it's a button, located exactly where you'd expect, under my right thumb. It requires a simple, satisfying click.

On the Renault, it's done by locating this ridiculous audio control block, attached to the steering column at 4-5 o'clock. You then have to feel around the back of the block, find the scrolling wheel, and move it in the direction you wanted (which isn't obvious). What's that? You only wanted the next track? Oh, sorry, you went over a pothole so we've skipped three tracks for you.



It's just unforgiveably sh*t. It's like they just couldn't be bothered.

And it shouldn't take a genius to work out which of the above took less money to develop.

I'd rather have one of these stalks than clutter the wheel up with more buttons.

[C70R]

Challo said:

But thats your opinion. If you look at Dacia which is a Renault in basic form and they are flying out the dealership.

Renault will be building cars to what their customers want and seems to be doing ok.

I think you're doing the thing of over-representing what this corner of the internet thinks about Dacia.

Perfectly fine cars, but making up 6% of all European sales and selling fewer cars in all of Europe than VW did in the UK in 2021 isn't indicative of them changing the direction of the market.

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

nickfrog said:

C70R said:

It was more using this car as an example of the things that have frustrated me about most French cars I've driven.

It's just like they don't care about the basics.

I don't think the Kadjar's driving position is particularly French. It is the same as a Nissan Qashqai (same platform) which is made in the UK.

But was presumably designed jointly between the French and Japanese if it's a platform-share?

Yes perhaps. I don't think there is a particular French angle to this. It's a global alliance with designers from all sorts of nationality.

Before and after the Kadjar we probably had 4 or 5 of those bubble cars (Tiguan, Karoq, 3008, Xceed) and the Kadjar didn't feel particularly worse ergonomically. In fact I remember the seats being super comfy.

But I agree the audio command is very quirky but I miss it.

[kambites]

C70R said:

kambites said:

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

At least it has physical buttons; it looks infinitely superior to having to do it through a touchscreen or capacative buttons!

That block thing just feels like a classic, French 'we're going to do it differently for the sake of it' exercise.

A bit like the C5/6 steering wheel, where the centre didn't rotate with the rim.

Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a better solution than what many "premium" brands are using these days.

I guess there's a fine (and highly personal) line between choosing not to follow the crowd because you think you have a better solution, and being different for the sake of being different even if the result is worse than the normal solution.

I recently installed a stalk very much like that into my car because personally I think it's the best solution for controlling the audio by touch.

[Mercury00]

I feel like that about German manufacturers, there's no integrity about the cars they make. They know their engines and gearboxes are ste, and they manufacture them regardless. Just look at the VW 1.4 TSI debacle, or DSG which lasts only until the warranty expires.

[C70R]

kambites said:

C70R said:

kambites said:

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

At least it has physical buttons; it looks infinitely superior to having to do it through a touchscreen or capacative buttons!

That block thing just feels like a classic, French 'we're going to do it differently for the sake of it' exercise.

A bit like the C5/6 steering wheel, where the centre didn't rotate with the rim.

Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a better solution than what many "premium" brands are using these days.

I guess there's a fine (and highly personal) line between choosing not to follow the crowd because you think you have a better solution, and being different for the sake of being different even if the result is worse than the normal solution.

I recently installed a stalk very much like that into my car because personally I think it's the best solution for controlling the audio by touch.

I can't see any way that is objectively 'better' than being able to control track and volume from a 4-way 'd-pad' arrangement, under a thumb on the steering wheel?

[165gt]

C70R said:

kambites said:

C70R said:

Is it ok in a ~£27,000 2022 car?

At least it has physical buttons; it looks infinitely superior to having to do it through a touchscreen or capacative buttons!

That block thing just feels like a classic, French 'we're going to do it differently for the sake of it' exercise.

A bit like the C5/6 steering wheel, where the centre didn't rotate with the rim.

Given, as you pointed out, it dates from the 80s, you could argue that those who implemented alternative solutions were those who did it differently for the sake of it

I'm firmly in the like it camp, it just works, fewer buttons on the steering wheel (there are loads on my Megane's wheel and the last the thing I'd want are audio controls there too) and just seems like a truly well thought out ergonomic triumph to me. I guess it probably more comes down to which design you first encountered and got used to and the opposite inherently feels less intuitive?

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

I can't see any way that is objectively 'better' than being able to control track and volume from a 4-way 'd-pad' arrangement, under a thumb on the steering wheel?

I am really sorry but I find the Renault system objectively better as you can leave your thumb in the steering wheel at 9.15 in the optimum hand position.

[911r]

You're asking the wrong .

Why don't the French care ? is the real question .

[Challo]

C70R said:

Challo said:

But thats your opinion. If you look at Dacia which is a Renault in basic form and they are flying out the dealership.

Renault will be building cars to what their customers want and seems to be doing ok.

I think you're doing the thing of over-representing what this corner of the internet thinks about Dacia.

Perfectly fine cars, but making up 6% of all European sales and selling fewer cars in all of Europe than VW did in the UK in 2021 isn't indicative of them changing the direction of the market.

But a growing car company, and no doubt will expect more sales with the jogger.

[C70R]

nickfrog said:

C70R said:

I can't see any way that is objectively 'better' than being able to control track and volume from a 4-way 'd-pad' arrangement, under a thumb on the steering wheel?

I am really sorry but I find the Renault system objectively better as you can leave your thumb in the steering wheel at 9.15 in the optimum hand position.

I think you're possibly a little biased, having had time to grow used to it, as you mentioned.

If Renault are the only ones doing it like this, does it make them...
1. Rebels?
2. Visionaries?
3. Deluded?

[SkodaIan]

nickfrog said:

I am really sorry but I find the Renault system objectively better as you can leave your thumb in the steering wheel at 9.15 in the optimum hand position.

The audio control "cigarette packet" as its known at my work, is the main reason for buying a Renault. It's by far the best solution to audio controls on any car.

If you want a lesson in "don't care" ergonomics, buy anything from the current VAG range and try to adjust the heater while driving...