RE: Bee in their bonnets
Discussion
grey_1980 said:
Renault accused me of not shutting it propely, i tried to explain i never use the front bonnet because
A. there is no engine there,
and B. you coud fit maybe one bag of shopping from tesco and thats it!!!!!
A. there is no engine there,
and B. you coud fit maybe one bag of shopping from tesco and thats it!!!!!
I can imagine the phone call now...... brings a smile to my face just thinking about it - sorry, but it is amusing.
There was a major study done by MIT in the late 80's into the emergency of "Lean Manufacturing" techniques within the world's major car manufacturers.
By far the worst for quality were the European car manufacturers, with the French and Italians getting the worst results.
Obviously things have not changed much for the French, in 20 years!
And so much for for Renault's coveted five star NCAP ratings....
I wonder if factors like this, i.e. a bonnet flying up at speed, should be taken into account by NCAP retrospectively?
For example, sitting on the hard shoulder by the motorway in a Peugeot or Renault, more often than a Toyota or BMW driver, must require at least one star being taken off!?
By far the worst for quality were the European car manufacturers, with the French and Italians getting the worst results.
Obviously things have not changed much for the French, in 20 years!
And so much for for Renault's coveted five star NCAP ratings....
I wonder if factors like this, i.e. a bonnet flying up at speed, should be taken into account by NCAP retrospectively?
For example, sitting on the hard shoulder by the motorway in a Peugeot or Renault, more often than a Toyota or BMW driver, must require at least one star being taken off!?
These are not sweeping generalisations:
Citroens, Peugeots and Renaults do break down more often than than other brands.
Fiats, Alfa Romeos and Lancias do break down more often than other brands.
These sweeping generalisations have been proven over the years via individual ownership experiences and minor surveys such as JD POWER/Top Gear Survey.
And when it somes to racial stereo types, if you take Renault or Peugeot's track record for building reliable cars, then yes, the French are terrible at building reliable cars. (As proven by minor surveys such as JD POWER/Top Gear Survey).
I won't mention TVR as I will get flamed.
Hope this helps.
Oh for fecks sake. Any more sweeping generalisations?
Oooh, all Alfas break down, there's one.
TVR's break down, there's another.
Wanna start on racial stereotypes too?
Citroens, Peugeots and Renaults do break down more often than than other brands.
Fiats, Alfa Romeos and Lancias do break down more often than other brands.
These sweeping generalisations have been proven over the years via individual ownership experiences and minor surveys such as JD POWER/Top Gear Survey.
And when it somes to racial stereo types, if you take Renault or Peugeot's track record for building reliable cars, then yes, the French are terrible at building reliable cars. (As proven by minor surveys such as JD POWER/Top Gear Survey).
I won't mention TVR as I will get flamed.
Hope this helps.
Beefmeister said:
bunglist said:
Simple solution to this, DONT BUY FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!11
Oh for fecks sake. Any more sweeping generalisations?
Oooh, all Alfas break down, there's one.
TVR's break down, there's another.
Wanna start on racial stereotypes too?
On the flip side, we've had (going back many years):
Citroen GS (2 of these)
Renault 21 2.0
Renault Clio 1.6
Renault Megane Scenic 2.0
Renault Scenic 2.0
All new, all kept for 3 years and serviced on schedule. Not a single problem with any of them other than standard service items like bulbs and tyres. At least 10K per year on each, used for town and motorway driving and all driven fairly hard.
The Wife just ordered a Citroen C5 people carrier thing.
In contrast, the Ford Galaxy 2.3 we had was a pile of donkey droppings. While it never actually broke down, the trim was dodgy from about 3 months in and it had the "usual" electrical and instrument problems. Service was awful too.
Ian
Citroen GS (2 of these)
Renault 21 2.0
Renault Clio 1.6
Renault Megane Scenic 2.0
Renault Scenic 2.0
All new, all kept for 3 years and serviced on schedule. Not a single problem with any of them other than standard service items like bulbs and tyres. At least 10K per year on each, used for town and motorway driving and all driven fairly hard.
The Wife just ordered a Citroen C5 people carrier thing.
In contrast, the Ford Galaxy 2.3 we had was a pile of donkey droppings. While it never actually broke down, the trim was dodgy from about 3 months in and it had the "usual" electrical and instrument problems. Service was awful too.
Ian
Beefmeister said:
bunglist said:
Simple solution to this, DONT BUY FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!11
Oh for fecks sake. Any more sweeping generalisations?
Oooh, all Alfas break down, there's one.
TVR's break down, there's another.
Wanna start on racial stereotypes too?
What's wrong with making a sweping statement when they're true?
chrisgr31 said:
Its all very well to blame the drivers for not shutting the bonnet properly but how come this doesn't affect other cars as well?
Either the Clio bonnet is more difficult to close properly, or is easier to open by mistake. Otherwise other makes would have the same problem!
Either the Clio bonnet is more difficult to close properly, or is easier to open by mistake. Otherwise other makes would have the same problem!
Precisely. The idea of a 'safety catch' is to stop the bonnet opening even if the main mecahanism has been operated.
Put yourself in the shoes of a Clio driver - you'd never trust your car again.
Too many smart arses and car snobs on PH's by half.
imfinlay said:
In contrast, the Ford Galaxy 2.3 we had was a pile of donkey droppings. While it never actually broke down, the trim was dodgy from about 3 months in and it had the "usual" electrical and instrument problems. Service was awful too.
Ian
Well that would have been built by VW, so don't blame Ford, Although I do agree about the attitude of some of the service agents.
It's a fact that French engineering design specifications are less rigourous than those of German or UK manufacturers. This applies to all aspects of the car, electrical, paint, body. This is the main reason why French cars are so cheap in comparison.
You can therefore draw your own conclusions as to whether this may affect quality and reliability of the vehicle.
You can therefore draw your own conclusions as to whether this may affect quality and reliability of the vehicle.
My Audi had at least ten bits of plastic fall of it in the 3 years I had it. Including the clutch footrest jamming under the brake pedal..............which was 'awakening'. I have had eight Italian cars and the Audi was less reliable than any of them..................
Yet, my neigbours Xantia is on 210,000 miles.
Let's not generalise!
Yet, my neigbours Xantia is on 210,000 miles.
Let's not generalise!
fatboy b said:
Beefmeister said:
bunglist said:
Simple solution to this, DONT BUY FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!11
Oh for fecks sake. Any more sweeping generalisations?
Oooh, all Alfas break down, there's one.
TVR's break down, there's another.
Wanna start on racial stereotypes too?
What's wrong with making a sweping statement when they're true?
Have to agree....Citroen aren't exactly known for reliabilty and good residuals....
Anyway the French car industry is fair game cos we dont have one of our own to moan about anymore....
You wont find Audis with dodgy chassis that flip over at high speed.....oops
loose cannon said:
if the catches dont get greased up they seize as with any bonnet catch more over hyped twoddle to be honest
Not true.
I have an Alfa 164 - 16 years old with best part of a quarter of a million miles on it. Never had to "maintain" the bonnet safety catch EVER. If bonnet safety catch maintenance was what "normal" cars required, there would be a great many others suffering from it. Or is it just Clio owners that are careless in their maintenance?
thirstyboy said:
Best of all - don't watch watchdog - its a programme for thick moaning bastards. IMHO it sums up the trouble with this country now, full of people looking to blame someone else for their shite decisions or general inadequacy - look after your car and shut the xxxxxx bonnet properly.
People dont look after there cars though do they? they pay a renault garage to, so they should make sure the catch, latch or whatever it is, is sorted.
At the end of the day clio owners are no differant to focus owners, punto owners etc there all small hatch run arounds, only differance is renault have a problem with there bonnets, sure it might be 1 in a thousand thing, but they should have sorted it, bonnets flying open on a motorway is not funny, someone in the clio or even other vehicles could be killed.
If mercedes can spend a small fortune, upgrading there A class so it can pass the elk test (and i dont think there's many elk round these parts!), then renault should be twice as quick getting off there arse an sorting this, at the end of the day.
i do agree that people should carry out regular maintanance on there cars but i also believe that renault should take some responsiblity about this issue as well because they have now been on national tv infront of millions of people and have refused to accept liability, even though they have said that they will check all bonnet catches now it should never have got this far and because of this i bet that many people have been put off purchasing renaults.
Beefmeister said:
bunglist said:
Simple solution to this, DONT BUY FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!11
Oh for fecks sake. Any more sweeping generalisations?
Oooh, all Alfas break down, there's one.
TVR's break down, there's another.
Wanna start on racial stereotypes too?
Race ??? Cars ??? What ??
If you look at ANY reliability survey, the French car are SYSTEMATICALLY at the bottom. Fact.
This does not mean that all Renaults or Peugeots are not reliable and that all Hondas or VW are reliable.
It means that when you choose French, you are much more likely to have reliability problems.
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