Bentley GTC. What r Bentley doing?
Discussion
For several weeks now I have on behalf of my dad being trying to sell his Bentley Continental GTC. He had the coupe for 18 months and very much enjoyed it but sold it when they began to loose money. And they really did loose money. According to the Glass's Guide, £1200 per month!! It cost dad £30k over 18 months and it was only a wkend car, not high mileage!
When he was given the opportunity to have a convertible he thought great, run it for the summer then see how the market looks and decide whether to keep it or not. The car has arrived, 3 months early (it wasn't due till March) and from speaking to different people in and out of the trade, it appears Bentley is just flooding the market. As someone also has said in this forum, traders are been offered 2 or 3 a day. I found this also speaking to both Bentley and specialist dealers. Speaking to Tom Hartley, he doesn't want to know. Last month, he would only pay list price for the car as he also was being offered several A DAY!!
In my opinion Bentley are making them far too quickly. Bentley is doing fantastically well now; the GT is a great car but why don't they use some restrain and build them slower! If it carries on this way, I won't at all be surprised to see them for less that list price within 3 months.
Or is it that everyone has the same idea. Buy it and sell it on, make a few grand profits, which of course isn't liable to capital gains tax!
I am more than happy to be found wrong about this, or if your interested in a GTC, check the advert! I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on this.
www.petrolheads.co.uk/sales/120578.htm
When he was given the opportunity to have a convertible he thought great, run it for the summer then see how the market looks and decide whether to keep it or not. The car has arrived, 3 months early (it wasn't due till March) and from speaking to different people in and out of the trade, it appears Bentley is just flooding the market. As someone also has said in this forum, traders are been offered 2 or 3 a day. I found this also speaking to both Bentley and specialist dealers. Speaking to Tom Hartley, he doesn't want to know. Last month, he would only pay list price for the car as he also was being offered several A DAY!!
In my opinion Bentley are making them far too quickly. Bentley is doing fantastically well now; the GT is a great car but why don't they use some restrain and build them slower! If it carries on this way, I won't at all be surprised to see them for less that list price within 3 months.
Or is it that everyone has the same idea. Buy it and sell it on, make a few grand profits, which of course isn't liable to capital gains tax!
I am more than happy to be found wrong about this, or if your interested in a GTC, check the advert! I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on this.
www.petrolheads.co.uk/sales/120578.htm
It's a shame William, but it's where they are at under VW. It's the business plan that has ensured their survival. They cars have always shed money, but now they have a pile 'em high sell 'em cheap mentality, and the old sausage machine is churning out VAG W12 platform stuff at a rate of thousands rather than hundreds per year, they are bound to shed money even faster. The cars at new price are the cheapest Bentleys (in real terms) that have ever been on offer, and, cheap though they are, they're still getting twice the price for the stuff with a Bentley badge than they ever could with a VW/Audi badge. I think they have a lot further to fall yet, before they find their true level. I see a Bentley on the road maybe once or twice a month, I see W12's every day, exclusive they aint.
Unfortunately it's the same with a few luxury brands. Many years ago I bought my first Jaguar - brand new, it was a lovely moment, one I'll not forget. And then slowly the whole world seemed to be driving Jaguars! Diesel ones, baby ones, big ones....
Same with Aston - I had a Vanquish, and then the whole world seemed to drive DB9's and now V8's.
And then I thought - actually, who gives a ferk?! If it's a nice car and I like it, why worry about it being 'exclusive' or no longer exclusive. As to depreciation? The trick, I guess, if you're worried about it, is to never buy a new car - let someone else take the hit and pay the VAT. I make money doing other things and don't think of cars as investments. So I try not to worry about my various cars depreciating.
I have recently bought a GTC, I intend to keep it. I also think it's a bit of a bargain compared to something like the Vanquish for example.
TBH, losing £30K over 18 months isnt that much anyway, in percentage terms it is very little, and even in outright cash terms its not much. There are bread & butter cars that will lose 40-50% in 18 months, and it doesnt even raise an eyebrow, Mr & Mrs Normal on their regular change cycle do it again and again with their Fords & Vauxhalls. And even in cash terms, there are top end models of Mundane brands that can get close to £30K depreciation. Big Citroen anyone?
Not sure I am getting my head around this. Your first point I can kind of agree with, big depreciation hurts the genuine buyer and the actions of a company which help depreciation can be annoying, however as BG says, as a percentage it is not that great really and high value always means high risk and most going in know that. However then we seem to enter the world not of depreciation but of speculation, you seem to be annoyed that volume being produced is preventing a profit with the GTC. When speculation pays off I am sure people are the first to say how clever they are, but when it goes bad they want to blame the car maker. At the end of the day they are running their business for the shareholders and to make a profit, why should they feel beholden to assist people who just want to sell on for a fast buck? Initial demand and orders will dictate production numbers, if initial demand comes from speculators then numbers are already inflated, on top of that the used market is immediately flooded, am afraid it is the speculators themselves who are stalling the price as it is they who created the volume available on the open market. Supply and demand simple as that.
There is only one logical justification for buying new -- you want the opportunity to specify absolutely everything on the car, down to the last microscopic detail, and then to keep the car forever. Anything else is a mugs game.
And people who buy into new cars, with the intent of keeping it for a few months and then moving it on, are basically looking for somewhere safe yet fun to park their money. Shows what level of investment sense they have...
My 10yo RT is now worth 35-40k, bought for that a year ago. The only car I would change it for is a brand new Phantom (dont like the Arnage body, too cramped and small inside). And I have no intention of parking quarter of a mill into a new car that will lose 100k in 2 years.
And people who buy into new cars, with the intent of keeping it for a few months and then moving it on, are basically looking for somewhere safe yet fun to park their money. Shows what level of investment sense they have...
My 10yo RT is now worth 35-40k, bought for that a year ago. The only car I would change it for is a brand new Phantom (dont like the Arnage body, too cramped and small inside). And I have no intention of parking quarter of a mill into a new car that will lose 100k in 2 years.
I agree with all that you are saying above and appriciate that all cars loose money. I think all the cars my father has bought have been new and I have a TVR so I'm fully aware of deprieciation!
I just think its such a shame that a brand as great as Bentley is suffering this way. Comparing it to Aston Martin, you could argue that Ford in its current situation would do the same thing. Sell as many as they can as quick as they can. But they're not. They're controlling production to keep demand high and thus residuals high.
My fathers Bentley has arrived 3 months early because as has been, said they've ramped up production. This surely will affect Bentley in the long term with regard people's decision to buy one in a coupe of years time. You can pick up a coupe now, 12 or 18 months old, with no mileage on them for £90k. I know you can't spec them to your exact specification, but they come with only a few options to choose from anyway.
Anyway, rant over! Thank you for your thoughts.
I just think its such a shame that a brand as great as Bentley is suffering this way. Comparing it to Aston Martin, you could argue that Ford in its current situation would do the same thing. Sell as many as they can as quick as they can. But they're not. They're controlling production to keep demand high and thus residuals high.
My fathers Bentley has arrived 3 months early because as has been, said they've ramped up production. This surely will affect Bentley in the long term with regard people's decision to buy one in a coupe of years time. You can pick up a coupe now, 12 or 18 months old, with no mileage on them for £90k. I know you can't spec them to your exact specification, but they come with only a few options to choose from anyway.
Anyway, rant over! Thank you for your thoughts.
W111AAM said:
I agree with all that you are saying above and appriciate that all cars loose money. I think all the cars my father has bought have been new and I have a TVR so I'm fully aware of deprieciation!
I just think its such a shame that a brand as great as Bentley is suffering this way. Comparing it to Aston Martin, you could argue that Ford in its current situation would do the same thing. Sell as many as they can as quick as they can. But they're not. They're controlling production to keep demand high and thus residuals high.
My fathers Bentley has arrived 3 months early because as has been, said they've ramped up production. This surely will affect Bentley in the long term with regard people's decision to buy one in a coupe of years time. You can pick up a coupe now, 12 or 18 months old, with no mileage on them for £90k. I know you can't spec them to your exact specification, but they come with only a few options to choose from anyway.
Anyway, rant over! Thank you for your thoughts.
I just think its such a shame that a brand as great as Bentley is suffering this way. Comparing it to Aston Martin, you could argue that Ford in its current situation would do the same thing. Sell as many as they can as quick as they can. But they're not. They're controlling production to keep demand high and thus residuals high.
My fathers Bentley has arrived 3 months early because as has been, said they've ramped up production. This surely will affect Bentley in the long term with regard people's decision to buy one in a coupe of years time. You can pick up a coupe now, 12 or 18 months old, with no mileage on them for £90k. I know you can't spec them to your exact specification, but they come with only a few options to choose from anyway.
Anyway, rant over! Thank you for your thoughts.
You are forgetting that VAG has loads of spare capacity on their A8/Pheaton lines which allows them to up production numbers easily.
sjn2004 said:
You are forgetting that VAG has loads of spare capacity on their A8/Pheaton lines which allows them to up production numbers easily.
It just goes to show, if folks are buying Bentleys and dont even care that they are not built in Britain, what exactly do they think they are buying into? Heritage etc doesnt really mean a damn to them. Either that or it doesnt even occur to them that it may not be British built, they just assume it is.
I dont know whats worse, a Conti/Spur buyer not knowing, or knowing but not being bothered?
Thankfully, this is not a situation that would ever arise with an Arnage buyer, it would be totally inconceivable to both parties.
I'm told that the GT is entirely made at Crewe - including the engine.
In 2005 1.6 million cars were manufactured in the UK, which is not far short of the highest ever production levels.
To be honest it matters not a jot, it's the quality that counts. The latest Rolls features an engine out of BMW's 7 series, the GT a VW designed engine... Jags, Astons, Lamborghinis - they're all raiding the parts bin of the corporate parent.
They're better for it too!
Got to be better than no Bentley at all though, which is the only alternative.
I'm happy with things the way they are, overall. It is survival.
As long as they dont start doing diesels and 4x4's and SUV's and stuff like that, then they can go hang. No Bentley would definately be preferable then.
I'm happy with things the way they are, overall. It is survival.
As long as they dont start doing diesels and 4x4's and SUV's and stuff like that, then they can go hang. No Bentley would definately be preferable then.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 4th January 19:59
POORCARDEALER said:
I do not wish to sound offensive to any owners but.............has the GT Coupe somewhat "cheapened" the brand, made it less exclusive, in other words sold too many?
No offence... Yes, probably, a little. I remarked elsewhere here that there's a Burberry danger - however that started before the GT with rap stars buying Azures.
Aston and Jaguar have the same issue - higher volumes equal (of course) lower exclusivity. New 'brand entry models' at volumes too.
But for the company it's good news. Hundreds of millions invested in the UK, the cars on the front pages of car magazines once more - etc. But the price is, perhaps, this loss of perceived exclusivity.
Ford have done wonders with Jaguar and Aston as have VAG for Lamborgini and Bentley - reinvigorated the brands.
Interestingly there's always someone sniping from the sidelines (who won't own one of course) for such cars that 'ooh, they're not how they used to be' 'or there's not enough chrome like in the old days' or 'but they're German' forgetting that in the old days these cars were often unreliable barges that handled like lard. Same with Aston and Jaguars too.
Amusing to watch!
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