Bentley GTC. What r Bentley doing?
Discussion
Thanks for the clarification, Simon Hucknall.
Having come a little late into this, can I just offer the following comments.
1. Continental GTC one of the, if not the most elegant vehicles on earth.
2. Not a lot of sympathy for buyers disappointed at not selling for over list. Why should somebody else be their mug? Can't you just enjoy owning the thing?
3. Not Bentley's responsibility to create above situation. Gradual depreciation is what is desirable normal and reasonable. And I would say that is what is happening with GT's.
4. 'It's really a VW' brigade. Get real. Just sitting in one will dispel that notion. Are Ferraris Ferraris since Enzo clocked off? Do Ford make real Astons? Is a DB5 a real Aston, after all, old Lionel Martin chucked it in around the time of WW1? Did Jags cease to be Jags when Sir William Lyons packed up, or when BL bought them, or only when Ford acquired them? This is a totally specious argument started it has to be said by Bentley enthusiasts who were understandably pissed off by W.O.'s demise. Similarly the classification of 'Vintage' cars as pre-1931. All kidding primarily themselves.
Having come a little late into this, can I just offer the following comments.
1. Continental GTC one of the, if not the most elegant vehicles on earth.
2. Not a lot of sympathy for buyers disappointed at not selling for over list. Why should somebody else be their mug? Can't you just enjoy owning the thing?
3. Not Bentley's responsibility to create above situation. Gradual depreciation is what is desirable normal and reasonable. And I would say that is what is happening with GT's.
4. 'It's really a VW' brigade. Get real. Just sitting in one will dispel that notion. Are Ferraris Ferraris since Enzo clocked off? Do Ford make real Astons? Is a DB5 a real Aston, after all, old Lionel Martin chucked it in around the time of WW1? Did Jags cease to be Jags when Sir William Lyons packed up, or when BL bought them, or only when Ford acquired them? This is a totally specious argument started it has to be said by Bentley enthusiasts who were understandably pissed off by W.O.'s demise. Similarly the classification of 'Vintage' cars as pre-1931. All kidding primarily themselves.
cardigankid said:
Similarly the classification of 'Vintage' cars as pre-1931. All kidding primarily themselves.
Eh?
But that is the definition, fact, not point of view.
In the UK, the official definition is as follows :
Veteran refers to any car built up to and including December 1918.
Vintage refers to any car built between January 1919 and December 1930.
The latter definition by pure coincidence happens to match exactly the production of the original Bentleys at Cricklewood under WO, so they are the only Vintage Bentleys.
I really dont understand all this guff about depreciation. I have only ever made a profit on one car which was Morris Minor that I purchased for £122 11sh. 3d. and later sold for £175.0sh 0d. I bought my Conti GT because I wanted one. Whatever it's worth is whatever it's worth. It will never stop me enjoying it. Similarly I don't relate to the purist argument of what is a Bentley and what is not a Bentley. I'm sure that the Bentley that was built at 3pm on March 21st in 1931 was a fabulous machine at the time but things move on. I'm in a privileged position that I have driven a lot of expensive exotica. However, I bought my Conti GT because I really liked it. Surely it's better to buy a car for the sake of enjoyment than as a deprciating asset. Better to have had a love affair in a hut on the beach than no love at all!
flashgitindenial said:
I'm sure that the Bentley that was built at 3pm on March 21st in 1931 was a fabulous machine
They probably didnt make any on that date Clive, it had already gone tits up and they were awaiting the results of the sealed bid takeover.
www.darkforce.com/royce/w.o.b.htm
Those definitions were formulated by the old car movement in general, they were not formulated by Bentley Owners (there wasn't even a BDC back then either).
A Vintage car (of any marque) is a Vintage car by accident of birth date, just like a Veteran car is a Veteran car by birth date, and a post was car is a post war car simply by dent of being produced after the war. This is not marque specific, it applies to all cars, not just Bentley. What's not to understand?
I really dont get the comment about being snobby towards Derby cars either, it's got nothing to do with it. If you have ever been to any BDC meets, you will see that all the cars of all eras are understood and appreciated. A Vintage Bentley is called a Vintage Bentley, not because coincidentally it is solely a W.O. car, but because its production fits the dates, that is why it is called a Vintage Bentley. A Derby Bentley isn't a Vintage Bentley simply because it doesnt fit the dates, in exactly the same way that a Derby Bentley isn't a post war Crewe Bentley either, it just isnt. Rolls Royce didnt start to build Derby Bentleys until 1933 and they stopped in 1941 for the war then moved to Crewe. Is a 1925 Aston Martin owner being snobby because his car happens to be a Vintage car, and the 1935 Aston Martin owners car isn't?
I really dont get where you're coming from.
See the paragraph to the right of the 'search' button here...
www.beaulieu.co.uk/motormuseum/collection.cfm
Of course, if you have a grand conspiracy theory, or evidence to show that the dates were actually exclusively formulated by WO Bentley owners specifically to be able to sneer at later Derby cars, and nothing to do with an era classification system that was bought in by the old car movement as a generic cover all, then lets have it?
A Vintage car (of any marque) is a Vintage car by accident of birth date, just like a Veteran car is a Veteran car by birth date, and a post was car is a post war car simply by dent of being produced after the war. This is not marque specific, it applies to all cars, not just Bentley. What's not to understand?
I really dont get the comment about being snobby towards Derby cars either, it's got nothing to do with it. If you have ever been to any BDC meets, you will see that all the cars of all eras are understood and appreciated. A Vintage Bentley is called a Vintage Bentley, not because coincidentally it is solely a W.O. car, but because its production fits the dates, that is why it is called a Vintage Bentley. A Derby Bentley isn't a Vintage Bentley simply because it doesnt fit the dates, in exactly the same way that a Derby Bentley isn't a post war Crewe Bentley either, it just isnt. Rolls Royce didnt start to build Derby Bentleys until 1933 and they stopped in 1941 for the war then moved to Crewe. Is a 1925 Aston Martin owner being snobby because his car happens to be a Vintage car, and the 1935 Aston Martin owners car isn't?
I really dont get where you're coming from.
See the paragraph to the right of the 'search' button here...
www.beaulieu.co.uk/motormuseum/collection.cfm
Of course, if you have a grand conspiracy theory, or evidence to show that the dates were actually exclusively formulated by WO Bentley owners specifically to be able to sneer at later Derby cars, and nothing to do with an era classification system that was bought in by the old car movement as a generic cover all, then lets have it?
Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 12th April 17:03
The answer's out there somewhere and given time I'll find it.
The terms Veteran and Vintage, unlike the term Post-war, don't have any intrinsic meaning, unless it is 'antiquated' and 'from the best era' respectively. So, with the perspective of another 75 years, who exactly is saying that pre-1931 cars are of the best era, and why? OK, someone has set out a date, but why, what's the big difference between Dec 30 and Jan 31. Or is it meaningless, as I am suggesting. The expression Veteran doesnt seem to get aired as much as Vintage, and that's because there is snob value attached to the latter and none attached to calling your car an old crock. And the words Vintage and Bentley go together so naturally that most of the public have never seen them separately.
The terms Veteran and Vintage, unlike the term Post-war, don't have any intrinsic meaning, unless it is 'antiquated' and 'from the best era' respectively. So, with the perspective of another 75 years, who exactly is saying that pre-1931 cars are of the best era, and why? OK, someone has set out a date, but why, what's the big difference between Dec 30 and Jan 31. Or is it meaningless, as I am suggesting. The expression Veteran doesnt seem to get aired as much as Vintage, and that's because there is snob value attached to the latter and none attached to calling your car an old crock. And the words Vintage and Bentley go together so naturally that most of the public have never seen them separately.
NDA said:
I think the GTC is definitely a bargain.
And with leggy early Conti GT's now down to the same money as an early Continental R, they are set to be a used car bargain too.
£40K for a 1993 Conti R that will need a shedload of money spending on it for ever more, or £40K for the ten year newer Volkswagen thingy? If your finances are screwed down tight, the latter probably won't break the bank.
Very late into the debate :
A second hand car dealer will no longer pay you list price for a used car - my heart bleeds for you, really it does. There was a day, many years ago when folks who could afford cars walked into a dealership and ordered one up. They used it and when it came time to move the old girl on they knew it was going to have lost a few quid. If you were struggling with the finances your dealership had a blue oval badge over the door, if times were treating you a little better it had a 3 pointed star and if you didn`t need to ask the price you walked into a Bentley dealership.
Times have changed it seems and now people who can`t afford a Bentley are drinking their coffee, eating their biscuits, enjoying champagne and canapes at launch parties then ordering up a car in the hope they can drive it for a while, sell it on and they`ve either lost no money, or the same money they would have lost on a car with a blue oval on the bonnet and who`s dealers serve tap water in plastic cups and charge for a can of pop or a hot beverage.
Cars selling for a premium does no one any favours, it means scum bags order up loads of production only to run off asking a premium, when genuine enthusiasts with a passion for their preferred marque are left out in the cold unable to acquire the company`s latest offering. It isn`t just Bentley, the problem is right across the board. I think on the whole Bentleys fare remarkably well in their sector of the market place. The cheapest Continental GT for sale in the UK today on the auto trader is £65k, somewhat higher than the figure of £40k suggested in a previous post.
Yes the old cars were made in a different way, I have a Continental S in the collection and it`s a different car to the Spur a friend has, and the GTC he`ll be getting any day now, (incidentally you said the car arrived 3 months early almost as though it was a bad thing - my mate has been counting the days ever since he ordered one at the launch !). But one isn`t better than the other. The old car may have more of a presence than it`s newer cousin and may even be more of a sense of occasion to drive but point A to point B there is no comparison. If you fancy chasing me down for a couple of laps round Donnington Park I know which incarnation I`ll be driving !
In relative terms the new car is a lot cheaper than the old one and I think that`s a good thing, it brings it into the scope of a larger target audience. Yes that means there will be more on the road, it also means the company can remain healthy and put more money into R & D.
Anyway what do I know, most of my cars have the engine in the boot !
What a long post for my first foray into the Bentley forum
Keep smiling
Henry
A second hand car dealer will no longer pay you list price for a used car - my heart bleeds for you, really it does. There was a day, many years ago when folks who could afford cars walked into a dealership and ordered one up. They used it and when it came time to move the old girl on they knew it was going to have lost a few quid. If you were struggling with the finances your dealership had a blue oval badge over the door, if times were treating you a little better it had a 3 pointed star and if you didn`t need to ask the price you walked into a Bentley dealership.
Times have changed it seems and now people who can`t afford a Bentley are drinking their coffee, eating their biscuits, enjoying champagne and canapes at launch parties then ordering up a car in the hope they can drive it for a while, sell it on and they`ve either lost no money, or the same money they would have lost on a car with a blue oval on the bonnet and who`s dealers serve tap water in plastic cups and charge for a can of pop or a hot beverage.
Cars selling for a premium does no one any favours, it means scum bags order up loads of production only to run off asking a premium, when genuine enthusiasts with a passion for their preferred marque are left out in the cold unable to acquire the company`s latest offering. It isn`t just Bentley, the problem is right across the board. I think on the whole Bentleys fare remarkably well in their sector of the market place. The cheapest Continental GT for sale in the UK today on the auto trader is £65k, somewhat higher than the figure of £40k suggested in a previous post.
Yes the old cars were made in a different way, I have a Continental S in the collection and it`s a different car to the Spur a friend has, and the GTC he`ll be getting any day now, (incidentally you said the car arrived 3 months early almost as though it was a bad thing - my mate has been counting the days ever since he ordered one at the launch !). But one isn`t better than the other. The old car may have more of a presence than it`s newer cousin and may even be more of a sense of occasion to drive but point A to point B there is no comparison. If you fancy chasing me down for a couple of laps round Donnington Park I know which incarnation I`ll be driving !
In relative terms the new car is a lot cheaper than the old one and I think that`s a good thing, it brings it into the scope of a larger target audience. Yes that means there will be more on the road, it also means the company can remain healthy and put more money into R & D.
Anyway what do I know, most of my cars have the engine in the boot !
What a long post for my first foray into the Bentley forum
Keep smiling
Henry
[quote=Henry-F]Very late into the debate :
In relative terms the new car is a lot cheaper than the old one and I think that`s a good thing, it brings it into the scope of a larger target audience. Yes that means there will be more on the road, it also means the company can remain healthy and put more money into R & D.
Good lord, did you get a special pass from the Prorker forum to enter here??? Its a more refined forum than the brash, opinionated one you are used to
The cars are cheaper in relative terms to what they were, and for the survival of the company perhaps that was what was needed, but there is no doubt for some it has taken away "something".......
Rolls Royce are making fewer cars than ever, but have a long waiting list, so it can still be done, excluseivness (sic) and prosperity of the business.
In relative terms the new car is a lot cheaper than the old one and I think that`s a good thing, it brings it into the scope of a larger target audience. Yes that means there will be more on the road, it also means the company can remain healthy and put more money into R & D.
Good lord, did you get a special pass from the Prorker forum to enter here??? Its a more refined forum than the brash, opinionated one you are used to
The cars are cheaper in relative terms to what they were, and for the survival of the company perhaps that was what was needed, but there is no doubt for some it has taken away "something".......
Rolls Royce are making fewer cars than ever, but have a long waiting list, so it can still be done, excluseivness (sic) and prosperity of the business.
Henry-F said:
Cars selling for a premium does no one any favours, it means scum bags order up loads of production only to run off asking a premium, when genuine enthusiasts with a passion for their preferred marque are left out in the cold unable to acquire the company`s latest offering. It isn`t just Bentley, the problem is right across the board. I think on the whole Bentleys fare remarkably well in their sector of the market place. The cheapest Continental GT for sale in the UK today on the auto trader is £65k, somewhat higher than the figure of £40k suggested in a previous post.
Absolutely agree.... I paid a hefty premium to have an early Murcielago and regretted it, however I got lucky on my GTC as I put a deposit on one before it was even designed and Broughtons found me one at the end of last year. I'm not considering selling it (I might if I go with the 599), however I note they're selling for full price. Which is nice. 
I resist being a 'brand champion' for the GTC here as the car doesn't seem to be universally liked (see thread title!). But I love it, love the dealership experience with Broughtons and the ocassional dialogue with Bentley who look after their customers.
to those Bentley's detractors with the GTC I can only say to go and enjoy a drive in that car
the politics of envy in this country is reaching new highs: if subscribe to the Guardian and you do not like the Bentley you know what I mean!
this is a fantastic car indeed and if only Astons were built in the same way
The new Rolls Royce convertible is, instead, awful... it is like a Riva Aquarama has hit the back of the car...
RR
the politics of envy in this country is reaching new highs: if subscribe to the Guardian and you do not like the Bentley you know what I mean!
this is a fantastic car indeed and if only Astons were built in the same way
The new Rolls Royce convertible is, instead, awful... it is like a Riva Aquarama has hit the back of the car...
RR
a couple of months ago i was driving from birmingham to stoke. i noticed a black gtc driving erratically,silly bint was on the phone but the car looked great.a few minutes later an identical gtc was driving in the opposite direction.funnily enough the only two i have seen. quite a few gt's around the potteries though
POORCARDEALER said:
Good lord, did you get a special pass from the Prorker forum to enter here??? Its a more refined forum than the brash, opinionated one you are used to
The cars are cheaper in relative terms to what they were, and for the survival of the company perhaps that was what was needed, but there is no doubt for some it has taken away "something".......
Rolls Royce are making fewer cars than ever, but have a long waiting list, so it can still be done, excluseivness (sic) and prosperity of the business.
The problem with the Phantom is that at £260,000 there are many on here who wouldn`t be able to afford one. The Bentley, whilst not cheap is at least within reach to some.The cars are cheaper in relative terms to what they were, and for the survival of the company perhaps that was what was needed, but there is no doubt for some it has taken away "something".......
Rolls Royce are making fewer cars than ever, but have a long waiting list, so it can still be done, excluseivness (sic) and prosperity of the business.
As for helping to retain value the cheapest Phantom I`ve seen in the Auto Trader was £185k for a car that had done just 15k miles. Put another way a loss of over £75k, at least that cheap GT I quoted had been used a bit. So I`m not sure limiting numbers would help anyone. OK so the Phantom looks bloody ugly - and that from a bloke who runs Cayennes
so that won`t help things come re-sale time but hey I`m sure it`s a great ride. There`s a joke in there somewhere about the long suffering Mrs Henry !Glad to see I`m not the only Porsche man with a bit of culture
Henry
Micknall said:
Just a few points:
simon, a quick question that you might be able to clear up.a few years ago i saw some pictures of a (or THE) VW museum that had examples of all the brands owned by VW in it. it was in germany somewhere and had a lot of older cars.
there was a few older bentleys and what not on display, all in very nice condition
my question is does this collection still exist and do photos of the cars exist on a website?
my reason for asking is that my dad owned one of the cars that was possibly on display many years ago (when it was in bits and before someone else paid a lot of money to have it restored)
i have sort of half hearted searched the internet before, but just end up with pages of links and rubbish.
cheers
rich
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