Rolls Royce/ Bentley owners - why??

Rolls Royce/ Bentley owners - why??

Author
Discussion

robbri

264 posts

210 months

Friday 8th October 2010
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SilverPhantom said:
2woody said:
it's a bit like "if you need to ask, you'll never understand".".
He is spot on.

Let you heart rule your head once in a while, throw away the magazines, forget the 0-60, mpg etc buy one because you need one, what ever it is.
I totally agree i am thinking about selling my 4 litre sport x300 for a jag v12 or daimler double six because i want to experience the v12, fuel comsumption will be high but what the hell.

2 5HAN

696 posts

232 months

Sunday 10th October 2010
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Bluebottle911 said:
2 5HAN said:
I have to say for pure visual impact and dominance on the road i think that the Arnarge takes some beating.
Try the new Mulsanne!smilesmilesmile
Haven't seen one in the flesh yet, it does look impressive though

cardigankid

8,849 posts

213 months

Thursday 14th October 2010
quotequote all
derestrictor said:
What?

Prefer an unpretentious uber Kraut to some posturing facsimile of something once worthy, now ruined c/o ubiquity and the grasping hordes that delivers none of the majesty of an RT, say?

Every day and every night.
I will tell you something that you may not wish to hear. I would prefer a nice Shadow 2 to any kind of Spirit/Mulsanne, and I would prefer an S1/S2 Continental to that. It might also be noted that from the perspective of most of the public, an RT would seem a lot more pretentious than a new Mulsanne. None of the above are ubiquitous, unlike a Mercedes saloon, which to all intents and purposes is a non-car. I grant you its not pretentious, but so what?

Had a look at a Mulsanne last night by the way and it is impressive in just about every way. I am just not 100% sure that when you are inside it SMELLS right. Maybe its me and maybe I am used to the smell of the older ones.

derestrictor

18,764 posts

262 months

Thursday 14th October 2010
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
derestrictor said:
What?

Prefer an unpretentious uber Kraut to some posturing facsimile of something once worthy, now ruined c/o ubiquity and the grasping hordes that delivers none of the majesty of an RT, say?

Every day and every night.
I will tell you something that you may not wish to hear. I would prefer a nice Shadow 2 to any kind of Spirit/Mulsanne, and I would prefer an S1/S2 Continental to that. It might also be noted that from the perspective of most of the public, an RT would seem a lot more pretentious than a new Mulsanne. None of the above are ubiquitous, unlike a Mercedes saloon, which to all intents and purposes is a non-car. I grant you its not pretentious, but so what?

Had a look at a Mulsanne last night by the way and it is impressive in just about every way. I am just not 100% sure that when you are inside it SMELLS right. Maybe its me and maybe I am used to the smell of the older ones.
I concede the new Mulsanne is still magical; I meant the CGT and the saloon off shoot; great cars but afaic, not what Bentley should represent, namely, cobwebs.

Balmoral Green

41,024 posts

249 months

Thursday 14th October 2010
quotequote all
Thing is though, whilst the great TPS/Poka-yoke/Yazaki line at Crewe is churning out GT's and Spurs like a sausage machine, it pays for a few blokes in brown overalls with an HB tucked behind one ear and a woodbine tucked behind the other to make proper Bentley branded Rolls Royce's like the Mulsanne.

cardigankid

8,849 posts

213 months

Friday 15th October 2010
quotequote all
Yes, that's true, but I still don't think that they produce a bad product.

I understand that there is now a plan to put the 6.75 litre V8 into the CGT, which will be interesting. I would also be very interested to see what happens at Crewe and just how different the CGT line is to the Mulsanne line. After all, a high end CGT, say a GTC Supersports, must be north of £160k, which is 'only' £60k short of what would buy you a Mulsanne.

MJK 24

5,648 posts

237 months

Saturday 16th October 2010
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
Yes, that's true, but I still don't think that they produce a bad product.

I understand that there is now a plan to put the 6.75 litre V8 into the CGT, which will be interesting. I would also be very interested to see what happens at Crewe and just how different the CGT line is to the Mulsanne line. After all, a high end CGT, say a GTC Supersports, must be north of £160k, which is 'only' £60k short of what would buy you a Mulsanne.
I don't think that the 6.75 will be fitted to the Continental GT. They are doing a V8, but a twin turbo of smaller capacity. Circa 4,000cc I think.

2woody

919 posts

211 months

Saturday 16th October 2010
quotequote all
shame, there's lots of life left in the "six'n'three-quarter" yet

graemel

7,041 posts

218 months

Sunday 17th October 2010
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I admit I am very old fashioned. Nothing past a Bentley Turbo R or RT appeals. My father in law owns a very nice 1980 Shadow 11 that I have driven more recently in the past 2 years than in the past 20 years that he has owned it. I remember driving it some 14 years ago to a dinner dance and I hated it. Rolled like a boat and tyre scream at 30mph around roundabouts. Taste changes. Nowadays I really enjoy the sense of occasion. The ticking clock really is the only thing that annoys me.
I have owned a few uber Mercs. But none have that leather smell and that real luxury feel. In truth I used to feel the need to prove their performance prowess far to often, something that is so unecessary in the Shadow 11. They were quick cars in their day. 300 SEL 6.3, 450 SEL 6.9 and a W140 series Brabus 7.3S. 586 bhp but completely lethal.
A nice Bentley turbo R or RT would be my choice. It just has to wait a while. For me in the current nanny state world. Fun at sensible speed and a sense of occasion is the key. I was 49 last Monday so that could explain some of my reasoning.

derestrictor

18,764 posts

262 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
There's no doubting that age, to name but one, factor, seasons the old palate.

The only modern vehicle I've driven capable of reprising the RT's inexplicable but undoubted sense of occasion is/was the current Phantom and it was technically 'better,' albeit ghastly on every conceivable level that mattered.

And it is/was a sense of occasion born of sheer scale, wrong trousers and the bejewellment of strategically shaven simia.

That the RT has similar bulk and mass in its arsenal is obvious, indeed but as you crest the gawping ugnaughts and imbibe the swelling thrum of Elgin and all his questionably acquired marbles, the sense of pervasive primacy feels as natural as the rolling countryside and as justified as the massacre at Umberto Gorge.

A palleative, not panacea, as you survey the gory reality of our smashed Albion but in your cocoon of something now long gone, the pain subsides.

My God, what a motor...

BarnatosGhost

31,608 posts

254 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
Thing is though, whilst the great TPS/Poka-yoke/Yazaki line at Crewe is churning out GT's and Spurs like a sausage machine, it pays for a few blokes in brown overalls with an HB tucked behind one ear and a woodbine tucked behind the other to make proper Bentley branded Rolls Royce's like the Mulsanne.
same engineers, same designers, same bosses, same factory, two product lines, slightly different briefs. The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.

roadmap

278 posts

179 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
BarnatosGhost said:
Balmoral Green said:
Thing is though, whilst the great TPS/Poka-yoke/Yazaki line at Crewe is churning out GT's and Spurs like a sausage machine, it pays for a few blokes in brown overalls with an HB tucked behind one ear and a woodbine tucked behind the other to make proper Bentley branded Rolls Royce's like the Mulsanne.
same engineers, same designers, same bosses, same factory, two product lines, slightly different briefs. The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.



Designers are given idea briefs from their peers. The peers in turn relay the brief they have had from their masters in the fatherland and by the look of the current line up the influence does not appear to be disimilar to the range of teutonic designed boring looking autos being produced in Inglestad.

However in saying this, the engineering is not being compromised


.


Edited by roadmap on Monday 18th October 10:35

AndrewW-G

11,968 posts

218 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
BarnatosGhost said:
Balmoral Green said:
Thing is though, whilst the great TPS/Poka-yoke/Yazaki line at Crewe is churning out GT's and Spurs like a sausage machine, it pays for a few blokes in brown overalls with an HB tucked behind one ear and a woodbine tucked behind the other to make proper Bentley branded Rolls Royce's like the Mulsanne.
same engineers, same designers, same bosses, same factory, two product lines, slightly different briefs. The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.
Given the extent that the GT and Spur models are based on the VW Phaeton range, is it not more the case, that the VW Bentleys are simply assembled in Crewe from major component sub assemblies shipped in from Germany?

The major criticism I have of the VW cars, is that they are a little too like a top of the line Phaeton, whilst very successful and as BG has pointed out, good for production of “proper” Bentleys, I do wish they’d made them a little more Bentley boy and a lot less Footballers wife

BarnatosGhost

31,608 posts

254 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
AndrewW-G said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Balmoral Green said:
Thing is though, whilst the great TPS/Poka-yoke/Yazaki line at Crewe is churning out GT's and Spurs like a sausage machine, it pays for a few blokes in brown overalls with an HB tucked behind one ear and a woodbine tucked behind the other to make proper Bentley branded Rolls Royce's like the Mulsanne.
same engineers, same designers, same bosses, same factory, two product lines, slightly different briefs. The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.
Given the extent that the GT and Spur models are based on the VW Phaeton range, is it not more the case, that the VW Bentleys are simply assembled in Crewe from major component sub assemblies shipped in from Germany?

The major criticism I have of the VW cars, is that they are a little too like a top of the line Phaeton, whilst very successful and as BG has pointed out, good for production of “proper” Bentleys, I do wish they’d made them a little more Bentley boy and a lot less Footballers wife
no, a lot of the engineering for both ranges takes place in crewe, and many of the parts are made in the uk.

GT could have been more 'bentley', but it would have been less capable and more expensive. You could argue for the sake of character that those are allowable losses. However, the shape of the car market is such that, when GT was conceived, the market at £100k was over 20 times larger than the market at £200k. To make the car viable it could dominate the market completely at the lower price level but not do much business at all at the higher price. If it did 300mph and had a blow job function it still wouldn't sell thousands and make crewe viable at £200k.

Arguably they built too many cars and engineered too much cost into each unit when the going was good, but the original concept for the car and its price was very well judged.

Balmoral Green

41,024 posts

249 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
BarnatosGhost said:
The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.
I think there's a world of difference between the cars built on the shared VAG W12 platform, and the cars built on the Rolls Royce V8 platform. The family lineage and DNA of each separate and disparate model range ought to be self evident. Certainly as different as night and day.

I have a copy of Karl Ludvigsen's 'Bentley's Great Eight'. The full story of the 'Bentley' V8 engine, a great read. Thing is though, it's the full story of the Rolls Royce V8 engine.

We don't really need the same airbrush in here do we?

BarnatosGhost

31,608 posts

254 months

Monday 18th October 2010
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
BarnatosGhost said:
The night and day you perceive isn't quite right.
I think there's a world of difference between the cars built on the shared VAG W12 platform, and the cars built on the Rolls R
oyce V8 platform. The family lineage and DNA of each separate and disparate model range ought to be self evident. Certainly as different as night and day.

I have a copy of Karl Ludvigsen's 'Bentley's Great Eight'. The full story of the 'Bentley' V8 engine, a great read. Thing is though, it's the full story of the Rolls Royce V8 engine.

We don't really need the same airbrush in here do we?
Quite agree when considering the arnage/seraph cars, but the mulsanne is much closer to being a 'typical' VAG bentley, if there is such a thing - engine is carry-over modified, but much has been lost of the brown-coat, true coachbuilt era, for better and worse.

2woody

919 posts

211 months

Tuesday 19th October 2010
quotequote all
it pays to look at it from the manufacturer's point of view.

Whilst there's a lot of enthusiasm at Crewe for cars built the proper way, they'll be switched-on enough to realise that this isn't going to pay the rent.

And, there's also the market to consider - they will have worked out that there is a large market for "footballer's wives" cars which, thankfully, they're able to produce and sell in large numbers.

cardigankid

8,849 posts

213 months

Friday 22nd October 2010
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While we may regret that things are not as they once were, you have to accept that everything changes in order to survive, and without the involvement of VAG what would Bentley be? A Phantom with a dodgy radiator grille, if you are lucky. Don't you think that what we have is better - and also that as much of the old ethos has been preserved as possibly could have been? God bless the Jerries.

Imagine some 'British' asset stripping operation like Alchemy or a Russian spiv had got them. Like when BL got Jaguar. What would be left? Nothing.

Edited by cardigankid on Friday 22 October 22:33

cardigankid

8,849 posts

213 months

Friday 22nd October 2010
quotequote all
MJK 24 said:
cardigankid said:
Yes, that's true, but I still don't think that they produce a bad product.

I understand that there is now a plan to put the 6.75 litre V8 into the CGT, which will be interesting. I would also be very interested to see what happens at Crewe and just how different the CGT line is to the Mulsanne line. After all, a high end CGT, say a GTC Supersports, must be north of £160k, which is 'only' £60k short of what would buy you a Mulsanne.
I don't think that the 6.75 will be fitted to the Continental GT. They are doing a V8, but a twin turbo of smaller capacity. Circa 4,000cc I think.
There is a 4.0 V8, what use that is to anyone I can't imagine. A real footballer's wives car. The CGT with a proper V8, though, that would be interesting.

AndrewW-G

11,968 posts

218 months

Friday 22nd October 2010
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
MJK 24 said:
cardigankid said:
Yes, that's true, but I still don't think that they produce a bad product.

I understand that there is now a plan to put the 6.75 litre V8 into the CGT, which will be interesting. I would also be very interested to see what happens at Crewe and just how different the CGT line is to the Mulsanne line. After all, a high end CGT, say a GTC Supersports, must be north of £160k, which is 'only' £60k short of what would buy you a Mulsanne.
I don't think that the 6.75 will be fitted to the Continental GT. They are doing a V8, but a twin turbo of smaller capacity. Circa 4,000cc I think.
There is a 4.0 V8, what use that is to anyone I can't imagine. A real footballer's wives car. The CGT with a proper V8, though, that would be interesting.
For me its not the oily bits that are the problem, but the generic VAG styling, almost as though the design brief was "OK we want to do a coupe and saloon Phaeton that has a few Bentley styling hints"

but you are right, VW running Crewe is a far better long term proposition than the Russians or Indians