modded cooper s R53 vs clio sport for track car

[CarsOrBikes]

Scarface1 said:

Hi All.

After some advice. preferably from people with track /fast rd experience of the above cars.

Me and a few mates regularly do track days and we are getting a little more serious now.

I currently run a 172 Clio for my track car.

Its spec is:
some minor lightening.
Pipercross air filter.
De cat system.
polybushes.
Lowered suspension.
Bluestuff pads
R888 tyres.

Its handling is spot on and the brakes are cracking.

Its served well for several years and round tight tracks like Castle Coombe not much sticks with it despite its lowish power, however I am after something a little quicker as I have reached its limits, needing more power and on the longer racks such as Spa and the Ring its top end gearing lets it down.

I would stick with it for another year or two but 2 of the guys that are normally about equal with me have just upgraded their cars to a Clio 182 with turbo conversion running 245 bhp and an MR2 mk3 with the vvti engine fitted running 200 bhp.

I am going to be left behind so looking for something quicker than my clio but on a budget.

My budget is £3000 give or take so cars like focus st etc are too much.

SO.....

I have been offered a cooper S with a few mods for a decent price and am toying with giving it a go.

Its running around 220bhp with the following mods:
coilovers
17% pulley
Ind kit.
Miltek exhaust
Uprated intercooler.
remap.

not sure on injectors etc and I will be lightening a little and uprating the brakes and fitting R888 tyres.

I know the mini will handle well but does anyone have any idea roughly how quick the mini will be in comparison to my 172 or the clio turbo/MR2

Thanks all.

Steve

I thought I'd chime in, I've gone to write something a couple of times then bailed haha,

It sounds like a great idea but I suspect you 'could' also get what you want with work on the devil you know?

MT can be a bit samey in some respects, other than that it's the better Mini forum at the moment for U.K. activity, tuning or general 'stuff' haha. I used to like Mini2 but the site is so 'busy' with junk it's actually hard to read now. With either you have to filter out stuff/opinion I guess for what you're looking for. I'm on MT as CarsOrBikes, or Mini2 as ExclusiveWorkshops, can't remember what others, similar for bikes haha.

What do 'you' want your car to do? The Cooper S will pull well obviously with it's supercharger, but you sound like you want 'the edge' haha.

You say your Renault gearing lets it down, why? Too high or low? I believe they're revvy but don't know them otherwise, other than some are pretty hard to stay in front of haha. Is it revving out in top?

Your mates cars don't seem 'that' powerful considering the cost they must have had put in? Turbo 182 @ 245? Is that whp or chp? I have little experience of them so just curious. Turbo Mini's (R53) are at a conservative 300 - 350whp people say, but of course the differences in spec may be huge I know.

The R53 needs 'some' budget, at first you say you don't have/want much of one but then talk of considerations with turbo etc. on your current car so it isn't clear now haha. If you can do stuff yourself obviously it'll help, if you're any good at it haha ;O)

Someone above quoted 270/280 as the ceiling for an M45 R53 which about close, and is what a few have. There are a few choices of cam and head to get there, and pulley, or I/C to help etc. and other bits. Advice on MT regarding mapping can be bizarre imo, so fwiw my own opinion is map at every change where feasible, and I use 1320 for that only, due to ByteTroniK. I'll do everything else myself, in fact I could map it myself but it means learning!

The Miltek with a manifold and decat can put you over a noise limit some say, but a good manifold you'll need imo. Also the 17% may be too hot without a GP I/C, Chargecooler, or front mount, in your application. I don't think others will stop it clipping at 56 degrees which will defeat the point of your top end tuning so that's an important consideration some ignore, they also measure it while on motorways etc which is dumb, measure it at repeated WOT.

Maybe use a 15% and get more from it? Something I'm on the verge of doing myself, even having a GP I/C. (eg: peak IAT 53.97 @7396 131mph in Feb!)

I have a Lohen BV head for sale on MT (bigger inlet and exhaust) When removing the plugs during head removal for sale (I'd only fitted it to test it and get the fuelling set), I found No.2 plug had been helicoiled. That's fine but whoever did it only used a short coil which unwound when removing the plug so I'm having that sorted with a timesert. Anyway, things like this are going to gain you you're advantage. It's a 2k head for 1.2k. Just tested for 500 miles. Check it out on their website, pick the big valve inlet and exhaust option. Schrick valves etc. Only a thought.............

It will work best with a lumpy cam (or turbo) but for your use I wonder if that 'extra' the Newman PH3/4 has, may be a solution. I haven't yet run one but have one in my other car which isn't complete. (Mounted on a Cosworth head so could be nice).

Perhaps advise what it is you specifically want to achieve. Spa is very different to U.K. tracks isn't it? Wanting to get the best out of long straights for that circuit in particular will result in a different spec to Oulton Park I'd guess, I haven't driven there (pals have) but have done around 46 laps of the ring in three different cars. I would like to go back in my R53 but not fast enough yet. It's quick enough, but not fast enough haha.

For info, my own car is ~270 hp but only the pistons, crank, plus block and gearbox casings at the moment are original, although I have a billet crank and Wossner pistons to fit, they'll be for the next bit of messing if I keep it haha. My top speed was lower at ~144, and for now ~131 apparently @ 7,396rpm haha ;O) Actually it's a hoot.

Whether you build your car to get there or stay there, I think you're going to have to accept a compromise like with your current car, or choose the type of circuit you'd like to build for factoring in the long Spa and Ring options, the latter so far away from the 2+ mile loops we have.

My Mini's ;O) Just because!

Edited by CarsOrBikes on Monday 26th February 14:23

[Scarface1]

Carsorbikes - Thanks for taking the time to post above.

Some great advice there and may I say, nice motors. the silver one looks like it will be epic.

I have chatted to 1320 and Sussex road and race as well as joining a few mini forums and I eventually bit the bullet and am now the owner of a MCS.

80K FSH no faults and drives great for the princly sum of £1000 which gives me a couple of grand to spend on it.

Various bits have been ordered.

I will be doing some of the work myself but SRR are going to do some bits inc remap.

Spec for now will be:

Decoke engine.
Alta Cold Air Induction.
Milltek cat back (see how I get on with noise regs before going further)
15% pulley and belt.
Colder plugs.
uprated Camshaft.
440 GTT injectors.
Airtec intercooler.
Remap.
AP racing coilovers.
strut braces.
R56 'S' calipers and carriers.
EBC Bluestuff pads.
295 Brembo or EBC disks.
braided lines.
Lightweight buckets on OMP brackets.
Stripping weight.
lightweight rims with R888 tyres.

Have to see how it goes.

If nothing else I do like a good project to get stuck into

Thanks all for your help.

[CarsOrBikes]

That's good, you're on your way haha

Why 440's? I don't believe they have the right spray pattern for the pent roof design of the Tritec engine.............

I'd without hesitation, add ARP head studs and rod bolts to the list, maybe throw some standard new shells in, can be done easily with the sump off at anytime, or if you're decoking it which on an R53 probably will only involve a tiny bit of cleaning of the exhaust valve stem, you could pull the pistons and clean all around which is something I just did, even at 49k it released the rings some. It costs nothing, bolts ~60 and gasket ~30. It will give you a chance to check the oil strainer isn't blocked with anything.

You're going to like it. If you already have the Miltek fine, if not it's worth trying to find a JCW catback, they are about and with manifold and decat will pass.

Lower arm rear bushes you want for sure, and R56S front brakes as a minimum. Personally I wouldn't use EBC on anything, but you know what you know.

Definitely don't fit any aftermarket bushes the trailing arms. In fact you can get R56 trailing arms for £100 and you only need an adapter washer for the lower damper mount, the damper bolt and the top control arm bolt which are both longer, and R56 links. R56 brake calipers are also cheap ebay things, and the handbrake cables are a doddle. When to feel the weight difference of old/new you'll want to do it haha. Easy job,

There are spherical bearings you can buy to fit the trailing arm front mount. Takes the load off the bush and allows the suspension to move properly.

Light alloy flywheel on the list? Massive weight saving!

Is the clutch heavy in operation?

All good stuff, I could do these all day haha, such a rewarding feeling these give when the right bits have been added ;O)