Mini Cooper S vs Clio RS 200 Cup?
Discussion
I'm looking to downsize to something more suitable for the city but still a drivers car; and am being tempted by the New Clio RS 200 Cup.
It has had great reviews on Autocar, but was wondring how it compares to the Cooper S as I have some experience drivng one.
Otherwise the more expensive Scirocco is tempting, but maybe not as fun...
Any views would be very welcome!
It has had great reviews on Autocar, but was wondring how it compares to the Cooper S as I have some experience drivng one.
Otherwise the more expensive Scirocco is tempting, but maybe not as fun...
Any views would be very welcome!
Depends on what your looking for also which mini? the new one (r56) or the older new one (r53)?
Go test drive them all. When I was looking the supercharger sold it for me on the R53 also owning a clio 1.2 as a second car I know how badly they are built, I decided for the mini which I find more fun.
I find the cup to be a good A-B car and friends who own them like them but I do not feel safe in them. this is my opinion
Go test drive them all. When I was looking the supercharger sold it for me on the R53 also owning a clio 1.2 as a second car I know how badly they are built, I decided for the mini which I find more fun.
I find the cup to be a good A-B car and friends who own them like them but I do not feel safe in them. this is my opinion
I was torn between the exact same two cars.
In the end i choose the mini and not really regretting it so far.
I should point out that i've had 197's previously one of the early ones and the R27 F1 (company cars). I had a lot of fun in them and never had any problem with build quality etc. Brilliant at 10/10ths but here's the catch, they're not much cop unless you are driving them like you stole them.
The mini's engine is pretty amazing whilst it lack the top end fizz of the 197 it makes up for it with mid range punch and as a consequence will leave a 200 standing in most scenarios. Unless the driver just happens to be at 5500 revs when you floor the mini.
Add in a lot better fuel economy (i struggled to get more than 25mpg out of the clio) its more like mid thirties in mini, mainly as a result of not having to wring every last rev out of the engine to get going. Cheaper tax and TLC pack means running costs are a lot better.
Handling isn't as good as the clio and it can torque steer like a b!tch in the wet but i would say its 90% as good as the clio when on the limit.
So although i liked the 200 i chose the mini a) because it was a change, already done the clio thing b) a better day to day proposition c) the interior on the Cup is horrible.
So i don't think anyone would disagree that a purist would chose the 200cup however i have to live in the real world with the luxury of only one car. Which means 90% motorway and town slog. 10% open B road hooning therefore the mini is better car for me more of the time.
P.s. it is small tho and doesn't swallow up a mountain bike or snowboard very easily.
In the end i choose the mini and not really regretting it so far.
I should point out that i've had 197's previously one of the early ones and the R27 F1 (company cars). I had a lot of fun in them and never had any problem with build quality etc. Brilliant at 10/10ths but here's the catch, they're not much cop unless you are driving them like you stole them.
The mini's engine is pretty amazing whilst it lack the top end fizz of the 197 it makes up for it with mid range punch and as a consequence will leave a 200 standing in most scenarios. Unless the driver just happens to be at 5500 revs when you floor the mini.
Add in a lot better fuel economy (i struggled to get more than 25mpg out of the clio) its more like mid thirties in mini, mainly as a result of not having to wring every last rev out of the engine to get going. Cheaper tax and TLC pack means running costs are a lot better.
Handling isn't as good as the clio and it can torque steer like a b!tch in the wet but i would say its 90% as good as the clio when on the limit.
So although i liked the 200 i chose the mini a) because it was a change, already done the clio thing b) a better day to day proposition c) the interior on the Cup is horrible.
So i don't think anyone would disagree that a purist would chose the 200cup however i have to live in the real world with the luxury of only one car. Which means 90% motorway and town slog. 10% open B road hooning therefore the mini is better car for me more of the time.
P.s. it is small tho and doesn't swallow up a mountain bike or snowboard very easily.
Edited by waterwonder on Sunday 25th October 12:16
I may be going out on a limb here but I see them as 2 very different cars. I don't meant offensively it just my opinion. As good as the Clio maybe I see it as a small hatch, a some what budget
motor car and would group it with Fiesta's and Corsa's. Where as I see the MINI as something much more special. I know it's still technically a hatch, but it truly looks unique with nothing else even remotley similar. It's also cool and a statement, for this reason I would tend to groupif with much more sexy and expensive cars.
You see a MINI and think cool. You see a hot Clio and think " they couldn't afford to buy/insure something better".
This means you could turn up anywhere in a MINI CS and park up next to anything, top end Beemers even a Ferrari and still not feel stupid or out of place. Whereas in the Clio you'd want to park it out of sight.
motor car and would group it with Fiesta's and Corsa's. Where as I see the MINI as something much more special. I know it's still technically a hatch, but it truly looks unique with nothing else even remotley similar. It's also cool and a statement, for this reason I would tend to groupif with much more sexy and expensive cars.
You see a MINI and think cool. You see a hot Clio and think " they couldn't afford to buy/insure something better".
This means you could turn up anywhere in a MINI CS and park up next to anything, top end Beemers even a Ferrari and still not feel stupid or out of place. Whereas in the Clio you'd want to park it out of sight.
300bhp/ton said:
You see a MINI and think cool. You see a hot Clio and think " they couldn't afford to buy/insure something better".
This means you could turn up anywhere in a MINI CS and park up next to anything, top end Beemers even a Ferrari and still not feel stupid or out of place. Whereas in the Clio you'd want to park it out of sight.
Lol i couldn't disagree more. For me the worst thing about the Mini is it's image. I.e. wannabe, poser, hairdresser etc. I don't think many people would look at MCS and say yep he's bought a proper hot hatch he must be a bit of an enthusiast. This means you could turn up anywhere in a MINI CS and park up next to anything, top end Beemers even a Ferrari and still not feel stupid or out of place. Whereas in the Clio you'd want to park it out of sight.
For that reason I'd rather be pulling up in a clio next to the cars you've mentioned. If the other people are purely badge snobs your going to look like a poor relation in a Mini or Renault.
Lol but I think it says more about you than the MINI if you stereotype them
like that. I don't think the Clio is a bad car, but it's ordinary, a "Jo Bloggs" car. The MINI is classless and appeals to the rich, famous, enthuiast and fan alike. It's so unique in it's positioning that it isn't even often referred to as a hatch. It's a MINI.
And what I mean is, you could get a wealthy petrol head or someone rich and famous and they'd still be a likely person to buy a MINI CS whereas none of them would likely consider a Clio anymore than they would consider a Corsa.
And someone elses insecurities thinking all MINI owners are hairdresser cars certainly wouldn't stop
me getting one.
like that. I don't think the Clio is a bad car, but it's ordinary, a "Jo Bloggs" car. The MINI is classless and appeals to the rich, famous, enthuiast and fan alike. It's so unique in it's positioning that it isn't even often referred to as a hatch. It's a MINI.
And what I mean is, you could get a wealthy petrol head or someone rich and famous and they'd still be a likely person to buy a MINI CS whereas none of them would likely consider a Clio anymore than they would consider a Corsa.
And someone elses insecurities thinking all MINI owners are hairdresser cars certainly wouldn't stop
me getting one.
I think we could probably argue about this all day haha.
They aren't my stereo-types per se, just what in my experience the common perception is. Same sort of image as the old Audi TT.
I bought one afterall and i certainly didn't buy it cos i wanted to look like a hairdresser.
I do agree with the classless thing i.e they appeal to a wide demographic.
However i don't think it would make much difference between parking up at posh do in a clio or a Mini. Badge snobs will be badge snobs i don't think the mini badge would hold much more cache than a renault with those types. Everyone else that has got better things to worry about wouldn't care anyway.
As for wealthy petrol heads not buying clio sports and buying Mini's instead, i know several people that go against that and have heard of many more. If you read EVO you will know of one to.... Zonda and a trophy??.
They aren't my stereo-types per se, just what in my experience the common perception is. Same sort of image as the old Audi TT.
I bought one afterall and i certainly didn't buy it cos i wanted to look like a hairdresser.
I do agree with the classless thing i.e they appeal to a wide demographic.
However i don't think it would make much difference between parking up at posh do in a clio or a Mini. Badge snobs will be badge snobs i don't think the mini badge would hold much more cache than a renault with those types. Everyone else that has got better things to worry about wouldn't care anyway.
As for wealthy petrol heads not buying clio sports and buying Mini's instead, i know several people that go against that and have heard of many more. If you read EVO you will know of one to.... Zonda and a trophy??.
As I said I'm not out to dis the Clio, I'm sure it's a fine car and a fine performer. And I'm not talking about badge snobs, quite the opposite. Some vehicles just have an appeal that transcends their pricing or Market place. Such as a Land Rover Defender, SMART Roadster, MINI and a few others. Doesn't matter how rich or poor you are or where you go they are all
accepted.
That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
accepted.
That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
300bhp/ton said:
As I said I'm not out to dis the Clio, I'm sure it's a fine car and a fine performer. And I'm not talking about badge snobs, quite the opposite. Some vehicles just have an appeal that transcends their pricing or Market place. Such as a Land Rover Defender, SMART Roadster, MINI and a few others. Doesn't matter how rich or poor you are or where you go they are all accepted. (this bit is badge snobbery imo)
That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
Agreed That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
Edited by waterwonder on Wednesday 28th October 12:54
Edited by waterwonder on Wednesday 28th October 12:56
waterwonder said:
300bhp/ton said:
As I said I'm not out to dis the Clio, I'm sure it's a fine car and a fine performer. And I'm not talking about badge snobs, quite the opposite. Some vehicles just have an appeal that transcends their pricing or Market place. Such as a Land Rover Defender, SMART Roadster, MINI and a few others. Doesn't matter how rich or poor you are or where you go they are all accepted. (this bit is badge snobbery imo)
That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
Agreed That said if you don't mind the image the Clio has then there's no reason not too consider it.
Edited by waterwonder on Wednesday 28th October 12:54
Edited by waterwonder on Wednesday 28th October 12:56
He does have a point, the MINI is a bit "girly"! And that's from someone who drives his wife's MCS on a regular basis!
Back to the MINI vs 197/200 question. I've not owned a Clio but have driven them quite a lot on road and track. To me, it's quite a clear choice. The MINI is far superior in build quality and the level of interior. It feels rather special to drive and is something you can go anywhere in without it feeling out of place. The drive is leagues behind the Clio though. Crashy, understeer-y just not good at all once above 7/10ths IMO.
The Clio is the other end of the spectrum IMO. Whilst is isn't badly put together, the interior is a lot cheaper than that of the MINI and it just doesn't have the 'special' feeling. The handling/drive is infinitely better than the MINI though. Well damped so is nice on road and track, bucket loads of grip and a real joy when pushing on. You wouldn't really want to drive it to a posh country house hotel for the weekend though.
Back to the MINI vs 197/200 question. I've not owned a Clio but have driven them quite a lot on road and track. To me, it's quite a clear choice. The MINI is far superior in build quality and the level of interior. It feels rather special to drive and is something you can go anywhere in without it feeling out of place. The drive is leagues behind the Clio though. Crashy, understeer-y just not good at all once above 7/10ths IMO.
The Clio is the other end of the spectrum IMO. Whilst is isn't badly put together, the interior is a lot cheaper than that of the MINI and it just doesn't have the 'special' feeling. The handling/drive is infinitely better than the MINI though. Well damped so is nice on road and track, bucket loads of grip and a real joy when pushing on. You wouldn't really want to drive it to a posh country house hotel for the weekend though.
My 2 penceworth.
I think Minis are a bit girly, I quite like driving them, but they really need a LSD. That traction is terrible, as are the standard brakes.
The torque from the supercharger make up for it though and the handling.
I test drove a Renaultsport 197 when they first came out, it felt very slow, in fact the wife told me to put my foot down, when i had it flat to the floor. Needs to be revved (No bad thing)like a Honda VTEC and handling is fantastic. Though I cant remember if its as good as the Mini(Probably I remember being impressed).
But.. Its French and will break down.
The Mini feels plasticky, like bits going to break (indicator stalks), although nothing has and there are no rattles.
Drive them both and buy the one that puts biggest smile on your face.
Reno will depriechiate faster.
I am Biast because I dont like French cars.
I think Minis are a bit girly, I quite like driving them, but they really need a LSD. That traction is terrible, as are the standard brakes.
The torque from the supercharger make up for it though and the handling.
I test drove a Renaultsport 197 when they first came out, it felt very slow, in fact the wife told me to put my foot down, when i had it flat to the floor. Needs to be revved (No bad thing)like a Honda VTEC and handling is fantastic. Though I cant remember if its as good as the Mini(Probably I remember being impressed).
But.. Its French and will break down.
The Mini feels plasticky, like bits going to break (indicator stalks), although nothing has and there are no rattles.
Drive them both and buy the one that puts biggest smile on your face.
Reno will depriechiate faster.
I am Biast because I dont like French cars.
nottyash said:
My 2 penceworth.
I think Minis are a bit girly, I quite like driving them, but they really need a LSD. That traction is terrible, as are the standard brakes.
The torque from the supercharger make up for it though and the handling.
I test drove a Renaultsport 197 when they first came out, it felt very slow, in fact the wife told me to put my foot down, when i had it flat to the floor. Needs to be revved (No bad thing)like a Honda VTEC and handling is fantastic. Though I cant remember if its as good as the Mini(Probably I remember being impressed).
But.. Its French and will break down.
The Mini feels plasticky, like bits going to break (indicator stalks), although nothing has and there are no rattles.
Drive them both and buy the one that puts biggest smile on your face.
Reno will depriechiate faster.
I am Biast because I dont like French cars.
Your loss with bypassing French cars I think Minis are a bit girly, I quite like driving them, but they really need a LSD. That traction is terrible, as are the standard brakes.
The torque from the supercharger make up for it though and the handling.
I test drove a Renaultsport 197 when they first came out, it felt very slow, in fact the wife told me to put my foot down, when i had it flat to the floor. Needs to be revved (No bad thing)like a Honda VTEC and handling is fantastic. Though I cant remember if its as good as the Mini(Probably I remember being impressed).
But.. Its French and will break down.
The Mini feels plasticky, like bits going to break (indicator stalks), although nothing has and there are no rattles.
Drive them both and buy the one that puts biggest smile on your face.
Reno will depriechiate faster.
I am Biast because I dont like French cars.
They are no where near as bad as they used to be (MINI's aren't perfect either!) Up until recently all Renaultsports were made at a different factory so the standards were higher.
I know what you mean about not "feeling" fast though, the thing is, when you look at the speedo you will be surprised.
If you're considering a Renault Cup stripped-out racer type experience, go try an old shape Mini (R53).
It compares well - the new one (R56) seemed more like a VW Golf or something from my limited experience.
No supercharger whine, nowhere near as 'darty' and responsive, just bigger, more grown-up, and kind of boring and ugly by comparison.
Plus you'll save a fortune compared to a new Clio
It compares well - the new one (R56) seemed more like a VW Golf or something from my limited experience.
No supercharger whine, nowhere near as 'darty' and responsive, just bigger, more grown-up, and kind of boring and ugly by comparison.
Plus you'll save a fortune compared to a new Clio
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