04-05 JCW wanted

[Russdogg]

Very much a newbie to the world of Mini's.

I am after a weekend car to have some fun in and am seriously after a JCW mini Cooper S. Have decent budget but refuse to go over it (9k max)

My dilemma is the JCW seriously that much better fun than a Cooper S ( has to be 2004 due to the change in engine of cooper S). I could save some cash in going for a cooper S, but the JCW just seems more appealling. Is it worth getting a good Cooper S and having an upgrade ?

It must have the sunroof, and leather seats and prefer the car to have the racing stripes but other than that I'm not bothered on teh spec

There is nothing decent in my price range within a 60 mile radius but am prepared to travel to get a real good example.

[DrainTheSpuds]

Russdogg said:

My dilemma is the JCW seriously that much better fun than a Cooper S ( has to be 2004 due to the change in engine of cooper S).

Obvious answer, but you need to try them both, then make the decision as to whether the Works being a little bit quicker equates to it being more fun - you might be surprised. There was some discussion about this the other day on this thread.

Russdogg said:

I could save some cash in going for a cooper S, but the JCW just seems more appealling. Is it worth getting a good Cooper S and having an upgrade ?

You could do this, but by the time you've bought a 2004> Cooper S, adding the Works kit would put you over your budget, IIRC it's the best part of £4000 for the Works upgrade. Of course, you could always use one of the many other tuning companies to get similar gains in power for less money. Also, there was no new engine for the Cooper S in 2004, just a power upgrade from 163BHP to 170BHP and changes to the gearing. It is possible to get the Works 210 BHP output from a pre-2004 car.

Russdogg said:

It must have the sunroof, and leather seats and prefer the car to have the racing stripes but other than that I'm not bothered on teh spec

Don't get too hung up on having the stripes; these can be added later for very little money. Half-leather was part of the Chilli pack which most Ss will have, quite a few will have had the full-leather upgrade. The panoramic roof looks great but add quite a bit of weight.

[hyperblue]

A standard Cooper S can be modified to be more powerful than a JCW for a few hundred quid, I wouldn't get too hung up on the badge. That said if you find a JCW and Cooper S of similar spec and mileage at the same price, go for the JCW.

[Russdogg]

Great help so far, thanks guys.

Should every JCW have a certificate ?

Another point of clarification, the 2004 Cooper S would naturally be quicker than 2003 cos of the upgrade to the engine right ?

[DrainTheSpuds]

Russdogg said:

Another point of clarification, the 2004 Cooper S would naturally be quicker than 2003 cos of the upgrade to the engine right ?

Again, don't get too hung up on this, they were minor changes. The post July '04 Cooper S had 7bhp more than pre-July '04, is 0.2 seconds quicker to 62mph and gains 3mph on its top speed, along with minor cosmetic revisions.

[nottyash]

The JCW is a more desirable car than the standard S.
If you buy an S and tweek it up in power, its a modified S and insurance will go up.
The JCW is a genuine Mini upgrade, so for resale and insurance purposes, get a JCW.

Oh..........I have one for sale!!

No sunroof though!!

No links to ads in the forums.

Edited by Big Al. on Friday 29th January 01:01

[Russdogg]

Thanks Notty, that helps me, but they are like rocking horse Sh*t round my way, or else I'd be round to see urs, don't fancy 150 mile drive tho !
Like the look of teh car very much, but seen a post of urs on here complaining bout the brakes - u cured that yet ?

[nottyash]

Russdogg said:

Thanks Notty, that helps me, but they are like rocking horse Sh*t round my way, or else I'd be round to see urs, don't fancy 150 mile drive tho !
Like the look of teh car very much, but seen a post of urs on here complaining bout the brakes - u cured that yet ?

No mate,
Brakes are not part of the standard JCW upgrade. They are not as good as the car is.
Its the wifes car and they are fine for her, Ive mentioned upgrading and she wasnt bothered, so i saved my money.
I have changed to Ferrodo pads and they are marginally better than standard.
Sold mine anyway, but dont be too put off by the brakes as 98% of the time they are fine

Edited by nottyash on Saturday 30th January 19:37

[BigShow]

Are the JCW's worth it? IMO... No, and here's why.

Most JCW's don't make their power out the box, in fact I've not seen a Cooper S yet that makes the same power as one that rolled off the line in the same month. I've seen a stock Cooper S make 205 bhp and one make 165 bhp, it really is a lottery as to what you'll get.

So the smart money buys a low mileage faclift Cooper S with the spec you want, then does a health check and dyno run to see if everything is performing nicely, then adds an 11% KMT pulley (same size as a JCW pulley), Dave.F CAI (which looks like stock but half the price of the JCW cai and performs better)NGK plugs and a custom remap (which is MILES better than a JCW map).

This lot will cost you no more than £750 and will probably net you the same as the Works conversion in terms of power, if not more. It will also cost you less to buy the car in the first place thanks to it not being a Works, leaving you more money to add things like stripes and maybe get the front wishbone bushes changed as they commonly need changing after a few years/miles.

And don't worry about the fact you've 'modified' the car, companies like Adrain Flux will still cover all your mods and not pull your pants down on the price, in fact it will probably end up a similar price to a JCW.

So in short you can buy a car modded by JCW which will cost four times the amount to mod than going the aftermarket route and you'll probably get more power the aftermarket route too.

Here's a great guide to show you how:

http://www.minitorque.com/forum/f24/1320mini-com-g...

Edited by BigShow on Tuesday 2nd February 21:36

Edited by BigShow on Tuesday 2nd February 21:38

[Eviltad]

Nice Info BigShow!

Might start thinking about tinkering my my internals.

[BigShow]

Eviltad said:

Nice Info BigShow!

Might start thinking about tinkering my my internals.

Good skills, you won't regret it but be careful, it's a slippery slope to an empty wallet as its totally addictive :-)

If you want some inspiration, here are some extreme examples showing whats possible:

Road and Track MINI running 260bhp:

http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_garage.php?do=...

Time Attack MINI running 280bhp:

http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_garage.php?do=...

Ultimate Road MINI running 370bhp!!!:

http://www.minitorque.com/forum/dto_garage.php?do=...

Edited by BigShow on Wednesday 3rd February 00:16

[Russdogg]

Thanks a lot, I think its logical. Get an S and slowly mod it !

[nottyash]

Russdogg said:

Thanks a lot, I think its logical. Get an S and slowly mod it !

Just remember insurance on a modded car will probably be a lot more than a standard JCW. Wy wife was paying about £240 fully comp for her JCW. Mention mods and most cheap companys wont even entertain you.
Also modded cars will be harder to sell on.
If you dont care about spending money on insurance or depeciation please ignore this post

Edited by nottyash on Sunday 7th February 19:40