Discussion
I've done a couple of evenings of "Mindful running" recently, basically a slowish jog in the dunes with some focus on improving technique, plus some yoga stretches etc.
It appears my technique was pretty poor as last week, after one of these sessions, I did my quickest time in several months, although still 50 seconds slower than my PB, and then on Saturday, after 2 sessions, I knocked 20 seconds off my PB, which has stood since April 2015! Although 26:02 is slightly frustrating as I now I feel I really need to get it under 26.
It appears my technique was pretty poor as last week, after one of these sessions, I did my quickest time in several months, although still 50 seconds slower than my PB, and then on Saturday, after 2 sessions, I knocked 20 seconds off my PB, which has stood since April 2015! Although 26:02 is slightly frustrating as I now I feel I really need to get it under 26.
Getting close to my goal time of sub 20!!!!
Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Tiggsy said:
Getting close to my goal time of sub 20!!!!
Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Great job! Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Getting to sub-20 from weighing 23 stone is quite an achievement. Sub-20 has been my goal since starting running two years ago. It interrupts my training, so I haven't been too many times, but my PB is currently 20min12s for 5k and a bit more than that for my Parkrun PB (5.1km). I entered a 4.2km race in April and managed 15min48s, so I know I can go sub 20 for 5k easily; I just need to find the right day and go for it It's surprised me a bit how much effort it's taking actually. My VO2 max of 56 is pretty high for my age, I've had my gait analysed in great detail (a full analysis with pages of graphs and numbers) and with coaching that's now pretty optimal, I'm running my shorter intervals at sub 3min/km pace and my long runs are 15km+ every week. I'd expect with those stats I'd be well under 20min, but I suspect even on a good day it'd be 19.something. Makes me respect the 15 minute guys all the more!
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 29th July 14:57
How are useful did you find having the gait analysed? It’s something that I am now considering given that I am running reasonably quick for an average Joe. I considered analysis when I was running 25 minute 5K is to be a bit pointless.
My issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total the week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground my issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total a week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground. At 6ft6 I need to avoid getting too running shaped as that’s not anaesthetic I like-which means keeping up with the weights-which conflicts with the running!
My issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total the week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground my issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total a week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground. At 6ft6 I need to avoid getting too running shaped as that’s not anaesthetic I like-which means keeping up with the weights-which conflicts with the running!
Tiggsy said:
How are useful did you find having the gait analysed? It’s something that I am now considering given that I am running reasonably quick for an average Joe. I considered analysis when I was running 25 minute 5K is to be a bit pointless.
My issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total the week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground my issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total a week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground. At 6ft6 I need to avoid getting too running shaped as that’s not anaesthetic I like-which means keeping up with the weights-which conflicts with the running!
My initial reason for gait analysis was injury prevention. Every time in my life I'd taken up running I'd lasted two or three months before getting horrific knee pain, leaving me barely able to walk up stairs. I'd tried podiatrists, physios, basic gait analysis at running shoe shop treadmills etc, but to no avail. When I turned 40, I wanted to start running again (yes, I'm a persistent bugger!), so I found a really decent gait analysis place that was a cut above anything I'd had before. They totally fixed me, and now 2 years later I'm in the longest stretch of running ever in my life with no knee pain at all. I'm super happy with it.My issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total the week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground my issue is that my other training conflicts with getting enough miles in for running. I try to aim for 50 km in total a week but it has to fit around strength training, mobility training and obstacle course training. That means lots of weights, H I IT, taking over the kids playground. At 6ft6 I need to avoid getting too running shaped as that’s not anaesthetic I like-which means keeping up with the weights-which conflicts with the running!
The other reasons for gait analysis are of course in terms of running efficiency. With my new injury-free running style I'm going about the same pace as my fastest and most serious stretch of running (6 months of hard training for a half marathon when I turned 30), but I don't think comparisons can be made because I was 10 years younger back then and 7kg lighter, plus I only had 3 months of training, compared to the 2 years I've had now. Mind you, if I can go as fast now despite being 7kg heavier and 12 years older, I must be doing something right! The main problem with my old style was I had a very large stride and a pronounced heel strike, which was where the knee pain was coming from. I also bobbed up and doing a lot, which is wasted energy. I now mid/fore strike with a shorter stride, but a higher cadence. One important thing that gait analysis has taught me is that everything is interlinked; so taking advice from magazines or You Tube can be really dodgy, because in trying to achieve one thing you may well unknowingly negatively impact another.
PM me if you'd like details of the gait analysis place I've been to. I had VO2 Max testing there last week as well, which will help get my zones correct for training.
50km a week running? sounds like a lot. Do you do lots of long slow runs? I'd focus on quality sessions.
I've been slowly getting back into running and have been doing about 11 miles a week for the last couple of months, along with about 50 "miles" a week of cycling (couple of 60-90 min turbo trainer sessions) and did an 18:40 5k a couple of weeks ago. Longest runs have been about 8 miles. I don't think a decent 5k needs anywhere near the quantity that a lot of people aim for.
I'm 6'1" and 170lbs so not a lightweight xc runner build either.
I've been slowly getting back into running and have been doing about 11 miles a week for the last couple of months, along with about 50 "miles" a week of cycling (couple of 60-90 min turbo trainer sessions) and did an 18:40 5k a couple of weeks ago. Longest runs have been about 8 miles. I don't think a decent 5k needs anywhere near the quantity that a lot of people aim for.
I'm 6'1" and 170lbs so not a lightweight xc runner build either.
RobM77 said:
Tiggsy said:
Getting close to my goal time of sub 20!!!!
Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Great job! Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Getting to sub-20 from weighing 23 stone is quite an achievement. Sub-20 has been my goal since starting running two years ago. It interrupts my training, so I haven't been too many times, but my PB is currently 20min12s for 5k and a bit more than that for my Parkrun PB (5.1km). I entered a 4.2km race in April and managed 15min48s, so I know I can go sub 20 for 5k easily; I just need to find the right day and go for it It's surprised me a bit how much effort it's taking actually. My VO2 max of 56 is pretty high for my age, I've had my gait analysed in great detail (a full analysis with pages of graphs and numbers) and with coaching that's now pretty optimal, I'm running my shorter intervals at sub 3min/km pace and my long runs are 15km+ every week. I'd expect with those stats I'd be well under 20min, but I suspect even on a good day it'd be 19.something. Makes me respect the 15 minute guys all the more!
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 29th July 14:57
lufbramatt said:
50km a week running? sounds like a lot. Do you do lots of long slow runs? I'd focus on quality sessions.
I've been slowly getting back into running and have been doing about 11 miles a week for the last couple of months, along with about 50 "miles" a week of cycling (couple of 60-90 min turbo trainer sessions) and did an 18:40 5k a couple of weeks ago. Longest runs have been about 8 miles. I don't think a decent 5k needs anywhere near the quantity that a lot of people aim for.
I'm 6'1" and 170lbs so not a lightweight xc runner build either.
That makes sense but I am not really training for 5K runs-I just do the park run events for a laugh. My main focus is on obstacle course racing. These vary in length but my next one is a 20 K and the one after that is a Spartan beast in Scotland. They deliberately use extreme terrain/hills/obstacles to slow your path through the run so it’s the equivalent of covering a far greater amount of ground. Not very scientific but a 5K obstacle course run feels much more like a 10 K run in terms of the endurance required. In a similar way a 10 K event takes far more out of me than any 20 K jog. In the past I have run into trouble with leg cramps towards the end of longer events due to lack of exposure to such sustained hard work in training- upping my mileage has helped solve that (quicker park runs has just been a side-effect )I've been slowly getting back into running and have been doing about 11 miles a week for the last couple of months, along with about 50 "miles" a week of cycling (couple of 60-90 min turbo trainer sessions) and did an 18:40 5k a couple of weeks ago. Longest runs have been about 8 miles. I don't think a decent 5k needs anywhere near the quantity that a lot of people aim for.
I'm 6'1" and 170lbs so not a lightweight xc runner build either.
I have the added issue of weighing around 220 so really do have to get my body used to the sustained pounding. In the past I have only ever run into injuries when my race distance was significant compare to my training milage (I expect) a lighter Runner might get away with stuff I can’t.
Edited by Tiggsy on Monday 29th July 19:09
irish boy said:
RobM77 said:
Tiggsy said:
Getting close to my goal time of sub 20!!!!
Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Great job! Started running few years ago to get down from 23 stone...First park run was LONG way over 30 mins!!!!
Did a 20.16 on Saturday (21st park run) Came 17th overall and certainly the only bloke over 200lbs in that group!! - got too many things on for the summer now but hoping my next one (sep time) will see 19 something!!!!
Getting to sub-20 from weighing 23 stone is quite an achievement. Sub-20 has been my goal since starting running two years ago. It interrupts my training, so I haven't been too many times, but my PB is currently 20min12s for 5k and a bit more than that for my Parkrun PB (5.1km). I entered a 4.2km race in April and managed 15min48s, so I know I can go sub 20 for 5k easily; I just need to find the right day and go for it It's surprised me a bit how much effort it's taking actually. My VO2 max of 56 is pretty high for my age, I've had my gait analysed in great detail (a full analysis with pages of graphs and numbers) and with coaching that's now pretty optimal, I'm running my shorter intervals at sub 3min/km pace and my long runs are 15km+ every week. I'd expect with those stats I'd be well under 20min, but I suspect even on a good day it'd be 19.something. Makes me respect the 15 minute guys all the more!
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 29th July 14:57
RobM77 said:
I've never run with a pacer, but I'd really like to. I find pacing really hard, especially at the start of a run. I find whether I'm in a race or on my very slowest long runs, the first km is always too fast, and it always feels like I'm going so, so slowly. If it's anything above a short tempo run, then by the end I get the opposite: I'm usually going too slowly, and always find it really hard! I have a decent running watch, but I can imagine that having an actual person to follow in real time is far more effective.
It depends how good the pacer is!Our parkrun pacers are just people who offer - we don't / can't check that they are up to the job and even though they might finish at exactly the right time they might have been all over the place on the way round, but it is easier to just concentrate on running and hanging on to them rather than working it out for yourself.
Going off too fast is always a temptation! You have to let people get away from you and not worry about it then reel them in later.
irish boy said:
If I’m pacing at parkrun I just google what speed I need to do to set that time, then monitor the watch carefully. Usually pretty accurate.
I do the same, but often find the start too busy to really check, at least for the first 500m or so. What tends to happen is I first look at about 800m-1km and notice I've just run way too fast 
I also find my watch accurate over stretches of a few hundred metres or more, but I don't really trust the immediate pace readout too much.I find the Virtual Pacer function on Garmin really useful, it tells me how far ahead or behind of my target pace I am, so it averages out changes in speed quite nicely. The trouble, and I think Rob has mentioned this one before on here, the distance the watch measures on a parkrun is usually somewhere between 4.9 and 5.1km so you can still be a bit out.
People I know who pace regularly have specific marker points they know, ie need to pass this tree at specific time, which is more accurate but harder to adjust.
People I know who pace regularly have specific marker points they know, ie need to pass this tree at specific time, which is more accurate but harder to adjust.
RizzoTheRat said:
I find the Virtual Pacer function on Garmin really useful, it tells me how far ahead or behind of my target pace I am, so it averages out changes in speed quite nicely. The trouble, and I think Rob has mentioned this one before on here, the distance the watch measures on a parkrun is usually somewhere between 4.9 and 5.1km so you can still be a bit out.
People I know who pace regularly have specific marker points they know, ie need to pass this tree at specific time, which is more accurate but harder to adjust.
For my Parkrun, my watch and the watches of other runners I've checked are always consistent in measuring the distance as 5.1km. I've not seen much variation in my regular training routes either. My post earlier was purely about the fact the Parkrun is clearly 100m longer than it should be People I know who pace regularly have specific marker points they know, ie need to pass this tree at specific time, which is more accurate but harder to adjust.
RobM77 said:
I do the same, but often find the start too busy to really check, at least for the first 500m or so. What tends to happen is I first look at about 800m-1km and notice I've just run way too fast I also find my watch accurate over stretches of a few hundred metres or more, but I don't really trust the immediate pace readout too much.
You're better off using "Lap Pace" on your Garmin or equivalent device. It's basically average pace for that current km/mile you're in, so smoothes out some of the jumpiness that can happen at the start or when you go under trees etc. I also find my watch accurate over stretches of a few hundred metres or more, but I don't really trust the immediate pace readout too much.Cybertronian said:
RobM77 said:
I do the same, but often find the start too busy to really check, at least for the first 500m or so. What tends to happen is I first look at about 800m-1km and notice I've just run way too fast I also find my watch accurate over stretches of a few hundred metres or more, but I don't really trust the immediate pace readout too much.
You're better off using "Lap Pace" on your Garmin or equivalent device. It's basically average pace for that current km/mile you're in, so smoothes out some of the jumpiness that can happen at the start or when you go under trees etc. I also find my watch accurate over stretches of a few hundred metres or more, but I don't really trust the immediate pace readout too much.PB's 2 weeks in a row 
First time in to the 25's. All due to improved technique not increased fitness, but helping inspire me to run more and hopefully gain fitness.
And did my good deed for the day and rescued a dog from the river afterwards (dog would have been fine but owner was getting very panicky)
First time in to the 25's. All due to improved technique not increased fitness, but helping inspire me to run more and hopefully gain fitness.And did my good deed for the day and rescued a dog from the river afterwards (dog would have been fine but owner was getting very panicky)
I did my 29th parkrun and finally made it through the 30 minute barrier, taking almost 90 seconds off my PB to record 29:09
Delightfully knackered when i got my barcode scanned, and well chuffed once i'd fully recovered enough to view my Strava stats
Even more chuffed when i realized my age-related grading moved over the 50% mark too.
I've been slowly upping my weekly running, so put this down to fitness and bloody-minded determination. My technique is still a little ragged so i know there is scope for improvement there too.
Delightfully knackered when i got my barcode scanned, and well chuffed once i'd fully recovered enough to view my Strava stats
Even more chuffed when i realized my age-related grading moved over the 50% mark too.
I've been slowly upping my weekly running, so put this down to fitness and bloody-minded determination. My technique is still a little ragged so i know there is scope for improvement there too.
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