The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint
Discussion
Gargamel said:
Alll of which is true, but the swim is relatively short, and the difference between say a 2:00minute for 100M vs and 1:30minute for 100m, really isn’t that big in a half or full distance.
Hence most people put effort into the cycle and run. Also with cycling to some extent you can buy speed. Not so much in a swim !
True, true. I wonder what the average swim times are for 100m in 70.3. I am somewhere around 2min-2m20. That feels comfortable and I don't feel tired when I get out, just glad the swim is over. Hence most people put effort into the cycle and run. Also with cycling to some extent you can buy speed. Not so much in a swim !
It would be nice to gain a little at the swim to avoid the initial rush at T1. Overall, my transition times are woeful, 25 minutes in total for the Lakesman. I need to get organised.
redback911 said:
Gargamel said:
Alll of which is true, but the swim is relatively short, and the difference between say a 2:00minute for 100M vs and 1:30minute for 100m, really isn’t that big in a half or full distance.
Hence most people put effort into the cycle and run. Also with cycling to some extent you can buy speed. Not so much in a swim !
True, true. I wonder what the average swim times are for 100m in 70.3. I am somewhere around 2min-2m20. That feels comfortable and I don't feel tired when I get out, just glad the swim is over. Hence most people put effort into the cycle and run. Also with cycling to some extent you can buy speed. Not so much in a swim !
It would be nice to gain a little at the swim to avoid the initial rush at T1. Overall, my transition times are woeful, 25 minutes in total for the Lakesman. I need to get organised.
Anyone do Ironman UK in Bolton this year? I was there in a support crew capacity (!). The Mrs did it and said the bike course was ridiculous - there were certainly a lot more who missed the cut off this year than previous years. It promoted an interesting debate in our household. Ironman claim they are keen to encourage female participation (it is still <20%) but making the bike course harder while maintaining the cut off is hardly the way to do this - most of the female ironman athletes I know are better runners than cyclists. I suspect they will get a lot of "feedback" after this year!
williaa68 said:
Anyone do Ironman UK in Bolton this year? I was there in a support crew capacity (!). The Mrs did it and said the bike course was ridiculous - there were certainly a lot more who missed the cut off this year than previous years. It promoted an interesting debate in our household. Ironman claim they are keen to encourage female participation (it is still <20%) but making the bike course harder while maintaining the cut off is hardly the way to do this - most of the female ironman athletes I know are better runners than cyclists. I suspect they will get a lot of "feedback" after this year!
I live locally and know the bike route, it is very tough, especially for anyone who's not used to the terrain of East Lancashire. I've heard some sad tales of people missing the bike cut of by literal seconds, in understand a cut off is a cut off but bring the barrier down in someone's face seems harsh.Apparently 14% DNF or timed out on the bike course. Normally around 5%.
17% overall DNF normally around 8%.
Bike course obviously sucked. I heard a few people who know the area day that if it had been raining it would have been quite dangerous because of the descent.
Cant see the appeal of a crap bike course in Bolton. Want a tough course do Lanza, at least the weather and scenery is good.
17% overall DNF normally around 8%.
Bike course obviously sucked. I heard a few people who know the area day that if it had been raining it would have been quite dangerous because of the descent.
Cant see the appeal of a crap bike course in Bolton. Want a tough course do Lanza, at least the weather and scenery is good.
FredClogs said:
10 hours was my understanding. I wouldn't contemplate an iron man and have great respect for those that take it on, I know 10 hours might seem reasonable but seems a real shame for those who wanted to carry on.
Yes if you are an 1:30 in the swim and 15 in transition then 8:15 on a tough bike course might be a challenge too far. Zurich is 16 maximum time allowed, which I think is down on previous years where it is has been 18 hours. I know this is the last year at Zurich as they have been fighting for a while about roads/access etc. It’s moving to Interlaken (Thun). Which will certainly make for a chillier swim, as thats much higher are mostly snow melt !
Cut offs are never easy particularly if you are strong but slow. In other events cutoffs are literally just culling folks who aren’t going to make the finish, but at ten hours you are for sure cutting folks who can make it .
A little race report for you, Zurich Ironman - Sunday 21st.
My first Ironman and only my second ever Triathlon
I live in Switzerland, so stayed at my apartment over night, a terrible nights ‘sleep’, tortured myself with all kinds of scenarios where things go wrong, everything from missing the start to crashing the bike or being unable to run once off the bike.
Swim start is sorted by expected time and you are set of in groups of 8 swimmers about 10 seconds apart, there were still a few stray legs and arms for the first two turns, but then it evened out. Not the stramash of a group start. Swim had me a little worried as whilst I am strong, I am not that quick, but I put in a decent shift, didn’t break stroke apart from right near the end, when it was raining so hard that navigation became a little awkward. Pulled out the water onto the ramp and did a few little staggers before getting my legs/ear balance back. I had no idea on my time (until after the race). 1:17 for 3.8k
Onto the bike, I ate a cheese roll in transition, stripped and into race suit, it was still raining a little so I took a few extra moments to prepare. Could find my cycle socks, so went barefoot. Got to the cycle start line, realized there was no way I could pedal off and then put my feet in the shoes, so did some rather awkward half pedal shoe clipping.
My supporters had arrived and that was a great boost, the first 40k is flat along the lake and basically a TT, I saw three riders down having fallen and smashed some rather fabulous looking carbon, wet and greasy road mostly to blame.
Bike course is two laps with around 1500m, ascent total, two short sharp climbs and two long grinds. Bike was my most trained leg, and I was hoping for an easy 6:30 for the 175km Zurich course. Got into my stride, overtook a load of people (and had a few folks glide past me too). I knew I was going a bit quicker than plan, but also knew climbs were coming. Never really slowed and finished in 6:06 - ahead of my plan but feeling pretty strong. The best moment of the bike course is the mini climb Heartbreak Hill, supporters crowd both sides, chalk signs on the road, cow bells, hopp hopps being shouted, flags, signs whistles, alpenhorns the whole nine yards, you get a couple of minutes insight into a mini col du tourmalet experience from the crowd ! Fantastic.
On to the ‘run’ well the first few steps off the bike were pure guesswork as to where my legs would land, but it does go away. I ate another cheese roll in transition, and by now the weather was sunny and clear and around 27 28 deg it was around 3pm. Four laps of 10k through Zurich Oldtown, onto the riverside, down to the lake and back to base. Well I knew I would finish after the first lap, but it was tough, I ran/shuffle - walked every drinks station, and generally suffered. Mentally I was fine, legs were OK too, stiff but nothing killer - but my heart rate ! Felt close to passing out a few times, couldn’t keep it down tried every kind of drink, water, cola, Red Bull, the ISO they had, a gel - all were making me feel a little worse. Then I was handed some salt ! That did the trick, started to recover so just gritted my teeth and ground it out.
Marathon 5:30 (I would usually be a 4:05 Marathoner) it was brutal in the heat.
Made the line, all my supporters were there, Son, Father, Brother, Girlfriend and my Nephew. Zurich looks fabulous and the event is excellent (last time in Zurich - they move to Thun in the mountains next year)
Great support/organization and something I have wanted to do for a long long time off my list.
(I am 48 years old btw)
[url]
13 hours 14 minutes. Bit stiff and sore as you would expect, and a slightly grated toe from the bike, but all things considered I am out the other side in decent shape and with a lovely shiny medal and a heap of great memories (both training and racing)
My first Ironman and only my second ever Triathlon
I live in Switzerland, so stayed at my apartment over night, a terrible nights ‘sleep’, tortured myself with all kinds of scenarios where things go wrong, everything from missing the start to crashing the bike or being unable to run once off the bike.
Swim start is sorted by expected time and you are set of in groups of 8 swimmers about 10 seconds apart, there were still a few stray legs and arms for the first two turns, but then it evened out. Not the stramash of a group start. Swim had me a little worried as whilst I am strong, I am not that quick, but I put in a decent shift, didn’t break stroke apart from right near the end, when it was raining so hard that navigation became a little awkward. Pulled out the water onto the ramp and did a few little staggers before getting my legs/ear balance back. I had no idea on my time (until after the race). 1:17 for 3.8k
Onto the bike, I ate a cheese roll in transition, stripped and into race suit, it was still raining a little so I took a few extra moments to prepare. Could find my cycle socks, so went barefoot. Got to the cycle start line, realized there was no way I could pedal off and then put my feet in the shoes, so did some rather awkward half pedal shoe clipping.
My supporters had arrived and that was a great boost, the first 40k is flat along the lake and basically a TT, I saw three riders down having fallen and smashed some rather fabulous looking carbon, wet and greasy road mostly to blame.
Bike course is two laps with around 1500m, ascent total, two short sharp climbs and two long grinds. Bike was my most trained leg, and I was hoping for an easy 6:30 for the 175km Zurich course. Got into my stride, overtook a load of people (and had a few folks glide past me too). I knew I was going a bit quicker than plan, but also knew climbs were coming. Never really slowed and finished in 6:06 - ahead of my plan but feeling pretty strong. The best moment of the bike course is the mini climb Heartbreak Hill, supporters crowd both sides, chalk signs on the road, cow bells, hopp hopps being shouted, flags, signs whistles, alpenhorns the whole nine yards, you get a couple of minutes insight into a mini col du tourmalet experience from the crowd ! Fantastic.
On to the ‘run’ well the first few steps off the bike were pure guesswork as to where my legs would land, but it does go away. I ate another cheese roll in transition, and by now the weather was sunny and clear and around 27 28 deg it was around 3pm. Four laps of 10k through Zurich Oldtown, onto the riverside, down to the lake and back to base. Well I knew I would finish after the first lap, but it was tough, I ran/shuffle - walked every drinks station, and generally suffered. Mentally I was fine, legs were OK too, stiff but nothing killer - but my heart rate ! Felt close to passing out a few times, couldn’t keep it down tried every kind of drink, water, cola, Red Bull, the ISO they had, a gel - all were making me feel a little worse. Then I was handed some salt ! That did the trick, started to recover so just gritted my teeth and ground it out.
Marathon 5:30 (I would usually be a 4:05 Marathoner) it was brutal in the heat.
Made the line, all my supporters were there, Son, Father, Brother, Girlfriend and my Nephew. Zurich looks fabulous and the event is excellent (last time in Zurich - they move to Thun in the mountains next year)
Great support/organization and something I have wanted to do for a long long time off my list.
(I am 48 years old btw)
[url]
13 hours 14 minutes. Bit stiff and sore as you would expect, and a slightly grated toe from the bike, but all things considered I am out the other side in decent shape and with a lovely shiny medal and a heap of great memories (both training and racing)
Gargamel said:
Yes if you are an 1:30 in the swim and 15 in transition then 8:15 on a tough bike course might be a challenge too far.
Zurich is 16 maximum time allowed, which I think is down on previous years where it is has been 18 hours. I know this is the last year at Zurich as they have been fighting for a while about roads/access etc.
Was 16hrs when I did it in '15. But they have to turn the music down at 11pm Zurich is 16 maximum time allowed, which I think is down on previous years where it is has been 18 hours. I know this is the last year at Zurich as they have been fighting for a while about roads/access etc.
Just read your race report. Good job! Was there a guy at Heartbreak with an enormous cowbell ( a metre high!) over this shoulders. He was there all day when I raced.
have to say I enjoyed Zurich far more than Roth! Shame its moving, but such is life.Though I stay away from the Salt sachets they offer! Risk of vomiting too high for my liking!
S1KRR said:
Was 16hrs when I did it in '15. But they have to turn the music down at 11pm
Just read your race report. Good job! Was there a guy at Heartbreak with an enormous cowbell ( a metre high!) over this shoulders. He was there all day when I raced. have to say I enjoyed Zurich far more than Roth! Shame its moving, but such is life.
Though I stay away from the Salt sachets they offer! Risk of vomiting too high for my liking!
Yes cowbell guy was there (or at least the cowbell was) Just read your race report. Good job! Was there a guy at Heartbreak with an enormous cowbell ( a metre high!) over this shoulders. He was there all day when I raced.
have to say I enjoyed Zurich far more than Roth! Shame its moving, but such is life.Though I stay away from the Salt sachets they offer! Risk of vomiting too high for my liking!
I think the IM guys and Zurich Canton have fallen out, which is a shame. 21 years they have been there and there was a chap in this years that has finished all 21 !
It’s a fantastic backdrop for the race, but Thun is basically Interlaken which is really home to sports in Switzerland it’s at the foot of the Alps and the gateway to the Eiger and Jungfrau. Beautiful lakes and valley floor. I expect the bike course to get a whole lot more hilly !
Just started training for triathlon , I would like to do an Olympic distance race, when I am ready!
I have run a little in the past (marathon 4 years ago 3hr time on a trail course) not run much since then! So a very hard 5k this morning in 29 minutes which is embarrassing!
Swim in the morning (pool based), should manage half hour of swimming with little problem, just the technique will need sorting, open water should be fun never swam seriously in the sea!!
Bought a second hand entry level Giant road bike today, sorting a turbo trainer tomorrow.
So I have all the gear, I have a target, now the hard part training. Looking forward to the challenge and getting fit again!
I have run a little in the past (marathon 4 years ago 3hr time on a trail course) not run much since then! So a very hard 5k this morning in 29 minutes which is embarrassing!
Swim in the morning (pool based), should manage half hour of swimming with little problem, just the technique will need sorting, open water should be fun never swam seriously in the sea!!
Bought a second hand entry level Giant road bike today, sorting a turbo trainer tomorrow.
So I have all the gear, I have a target, now the hard part training. Looking forward to the challenge and getting fit again!
joshcowin said:
FredClogs said:
I've got a sprint triathlon (3rd one) in spetember then I'll be looking to step up to the longer Olympic distance, anyone know of any in the North in the autumn?
Any tips for a beginner?Get a heart rate monitor, and work out your training zones, and try and get a handle on what is my stand alone race pace vs what is my Triathlon pace.
Eg I can run a 5:20 km, and I can hold that for a half marathon. But for a Marathon I am probably 5:45 ish. But in a Triathlon I might only be able to hold 6:00
Takes a while and some experience to get there. (Though I would suggest in a sprint you are at standalone pace for each event).
So whats your 10k training time, 10k race time and then your 10k Tri time ? There are online calculators that will give you a theoretical.
Good to understand where your HR is on these and guide your training with that.
joshcowin said:
FredClogs said:
I've got a sprint triathlon (3rd one) in spetember then I'll be looking to step up to the longer Olympic distance, anyone know of any in the North in the autumn?
Any tips for a beginner?Oh and enjoy yourself.
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