The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

[joshcowin]

Gargamel said:

Swim a bit, Bike a lot, Run some.

Get a heart rate monitor, and work out your training zones, and try and get a handle on what is my stand alone race pace vs what is my Triathlon pace.

Eg I can run a 5:20 km, and I can hold that for a half marathon. But for a Marathon I am probably 5:45 ish. But in a Triathlon I might only be able to hold 6:00

Takes a while and some experience to get there. (Though I would suggest in a sprint you are at standalone pace for each event).

So whats your 10k training time, 10k race time and then your 10k Tri time ? There are online calculators that will give you a theoretical.

Good to understand where your HR is on these and guide your training with that.

That's some great info thanks!

I enjoy swimming so that wont be an issue, I actually went this morning!

Currently just getting some mileage logged on all 3 sports tbh, need to get weight and fitness where I need it to be, before I can drill down into the details.

What do you use to track your workouts? Been looking at the decent watches but £300+ seems quite steep (I've just bought a bike & turbo trainer)

[joshcowin]

FredClogs said:

I don't think I'm overly qualified to give advice having only done 2 sprints before. The only thing I would say is don't neglect the swimming, which I did mostly because of time pressures and do a couple of brick runs (get legs pumped on bike for 20mins or so and then try to run) it's a strange sensation at first.

Oh and enjoy yourself.

I am looking forward to the challenge, ask me how its going in Feb at 6am pre run it may be different!!

Heard about the brick sessions, will give it a go tomorrow as I have the turbo trainer set up so will get 20 mins in before my run. Will report back.

[joshcowin]

joshcowin said:

That's some great info thanks!

I enjoy swimming so that wont be an issue, I actually went this morning!

Currently just getting some mileage logged on all 3 sports tbh, need to get weight and fitness where I need it to be, before I can drill down into the details.

What do you use to track your workouts? Been looking at the decent watches but £300+ seems quite steep (I've just bought a bike & turbo trainer)

Also how do you track your swims?

[Scabutz]

joshcowin said:

joshcowin said:

That's some great info thanks!

I enjoy swimming so that wont be an issue, I actually went this morning!

Currently just getting some mileage logged on all 3 sports tbh, need to get weight and fitness where I need it to be, before I can drill down into the details.

What do you use to track your workouts? Been looking at the decent watches but £300+ seems quite steep (I've just bought a bike & turbo trainer)

Also how do you track your swims?

If you are just starting out then look at a 2nd hand or old refurbished watch. Something like a Garmin 910 XT will do all you need. Its a couple of generations out of date so you could probably pick one up from eBay for less than 50 notes. I would say that the whilst the watch does everything its main benefit will be on running and cycling, especially with a HR strap. Login in swimming is fine for keeping track of what you have done but I dont think there is much value to be got from it (I do log all my swims myself though).

I wouldn't go mad on brick runs at the min. A few are helpful before your main event but they are not really necessary months out. They have an increased injury risk as well. I hardly eve do any brick runs other than the few weeks leading into my main event. Some people do loads, part of the fun of triathlon training is working out what works best for you.

Garmin has an app and website where you can view all your workouts. That's free, it will be more than enough. Also strava is free.

For now you just want to be getting is some easy kms/meters in each discipline. Once you have built your base you can look at speed and power work.

Some good books to look for at:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/80-Triathlon-Breakthrough...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triathletes-Training-Bibl...

The 2nd book is called a bible and it really is. Its a great resource but it needs quite an investment of time to read, understand, digest and implement it. Its aimed t people taking it pretty seriously who don't want to pay for a coach.

Swimming is all technique when starting out. Getting someone who knows what they are doing to correct your stroke is money well spent, and doesn't have to cost a fortune. If you are going to do one with OW swim then get some practice in first. In this country you will almost always need a wetsuit. You can hire them or again get one 2nd hand of fleabay. My first wetsuit cost me £48 and lasted me 3 years. You mention sea swim, my advice would be start with a lake swim.

Some slightly less serious advice:

Be prepared for it to take over your life. Everyone starts with I just want to do a sprint/Oly, I'll never do Ironman and ends up spending every spare penny of money on kit and every waking hour training or eating. Soon you'll find yourself lying in bed with compression gear on drinking chocolate milk wondering where it all went wrong :-)

Stay out of the Ironman Journey Facebook group. Its full of morons who know nothing, but act like they do.

A useful resource is the Slowtwitch forum. But be warned, it can be like a bear pit. Its US focused and some of the people on their are mental. There is amongst the detritus though some very useful and knowledgeable people.

[dangerousB]

joshcowin said:

What do you use to track your workouts? Been looking at the decent watches but £300+ seems quite steep (I've just bought a bike & turbo trainer)

joshcowin said:

Also how do you track your swims?

Personally I use a Garmin 920XT - you should be able to pick one up for about 200 quid on ebay now if they're still available new. The newer models (935/945) are more than double that with the HR strap which has convinced me not to upgrade, but at 200 quid, I'd say a GPS watch is a bargain.

The 920 though is still incredibly good though - it's helped transform the way I train. It syncs with Garmin Connect which helps you track your sessions/review all your metrics and also works in the pool/open water so swimming data is tracked also.

You can also set your Connect portal up to communicate/interact with Strava/Trainerroad/Zwift/VDot as well which is really handy.

Invaluable tool and it's free!

[joshcowin]

Scabutz said:

GREAT INFO

Thanks for the tips on watches, there are so many to choose from its a bit of a minefield, that isnt a priority at the moment anyway! So will pick one up over the next few months.

Logging swimming just for distance tbh! Using Strava for the first time this week, seems fine and looks like I can log all 3 sports easily!

I probably have a few wet suits to choose from as I used to sail, so will try and dig them out! I will get an instructor to give me some guidance soonish them as I don't want to get into bad habits!

As for taking over my life, lets hope not a few hours every morning is fine, I can run with the dog and turbo in the winter which means some time spent at home (read shed), apart from that I am determined to keep it as a hobby and not let it take over!

Will check the forums out thanks!

[joshcowin]

dangerousB said:

Personally I use a Garmin 920XT - you should be able to pick one up for about 200 quid on ebay now if they're still available new. The newer models (935/945) are more than double that with the HR strap which has convinced me not to upgrade, but at 200 quid, I'd say a GPS watch is a bargain.

The 920 though is still incredibly good though - it's helped transform the way I train. It syncs with Garmin Connect which helps you track your sessions/review all your metrics and also works in the pool/open water so swimming data is tracked also.

You can also set your Connect portal up to communicate/interact with Strava/Trainerroad/Zwift/VDot as well which is really handy.

Invaluable tool and it's free!

I will be on the lookout for one thanks!

Helpful to know people are using a watch that actually works well!

[Scabutz]

joshcowin said:

I probably have a few wet suits to choose from as I used to sail, so will try and dig them out! I will get an instructor to give me some guidance soonish them as I don't want to get into bad habits!

Are sailing wetsuits anything like surfing wetsuits? In which case you are going to have hard time swimming in one as they are too thick and restrictive. Swimming wetsuits are usually 2-4mm thickness. Thinning in the shoulders for flexibility. 5mm is the max for most competitions but I doubt anyone is ever going to check.

[joshcowin]

Scabutz said:

joshcowin said:

I probably have a few wet suits to choose from as I used to sail, so will try and dig them out! I will get an instructor to give me some guidance soonish them as I don't want to get into bad habits!

Are sailing wetsuits anything like surfing wetsuits? In which case you are going to have hard time swimming in one as they are too thick and restrictive. Swimming wetsuits are usually 2-4mm thickness. Thinning in the shoulders for flexibility. 5mm is the max for most competitions but I doubt anyone is ever going to check.

Good point! Maybe a decathlon spree is needed!

[Randy Winkman]

joshcowin said:

Scabutz said:

joshcowin said:

I probably have a few wet suits to choose from as I used to sail, so will try and dig them out! I will get an instructor to give me some guidance soonish them as I don't want to get into bad habits!

Are sailing wetsuits anything like surfing wetsuits? In which case you are going to have hard time swimming in one as they are too thick and restrictive. Swimming wetsuits are usually 2-4mm thickness. Thinning in the shoulders for flexibility. 5mm is the max for most competitions but I doubt anyone is ever going to check.

Good point! Maybe a decathlon spree is needed!

My advice is to get some proper swim tuition. You say you enjoy it, which is great. But are you actually any good at it? I think I had the benefit of starting to train for triathlon as a complete non-swimmer. Which gave me a bit of an inferiority complex and meant I got proper tuition. Swimming is largely a technical discipline and not about fitness. Good technique turns triathlon into an event where the swim is a fun warm-up followed by 2 "fitness" events which are much easier to do if you are not already tired. You can also enjoy the argy-bargy of the swim start.

[joshcowin]

Randy Winkman said:

My advice is to get some proper swim tuition. You say you enjoy it, which is great. But are you actually any good at it? I think I had the benefit of starting to train for triathlon as a complete non-swimmer. Which gave me a bit of an inferiority complex and meant I got proper tuition. Swimming is largely a technical discipline and not about fitness. Good technique turns triathlon into an event where the swim is a fun warm-up followed by 2 "fitness" events which are much easier to do if you are not already tired. You can also enjoy the argy-bargy of the swim start.

Yeah I would say I was a decent swimmer tbh, but far from perfect! so will be getting someone to look at my technique! I stay relaxed in the water, think that is always something people neglect.

So 5km run this morning follewed by 20 mins on the turbo trainer, felt bad at the time, felt good after. Hope to get 30mins out on the road after work tonight on the bike!

Just a gym session Saturday and complete rest Sunday, ready to increase everything by 10% next week!

[Gargamel]

Nonsense. Sunday is the long session training and Monday is recovery/ rest day.

Everyone knows that

[joshcowin]

Gargamel said:

Nonsense. Sunday is the long session training and Monday is recovery/ rest day.

Everyone knows that

Haha

When I was marathon training I would be running for hours on a Sunday, that made me realise I've got to have a balance! I was completely obsessed with pace and times that I ran 7+ miles everyday for a year, Sundays often being a 15-22 mile run. Never again!

Few longer sessions will be scheduled in when the wife is busy or baking!

[Randy Winkman]

Gargamel said:

Nonsense. Sunday is the long session training and Monday is recovery/ rest day.

Everyone knows that

Rest day? What's that?

[joshcowin]

What are your guys training weeks looking like?

[Scabutz]

joshcowin said:

What are your guys training weeks looking like?

I am in a massive lack of motivation phase at the min so not a lot.

When I am on it I usually follow a fairly standard 3x3x3 routine of 3 swims, 3 bikes, 3 runs. For bike and run 1 will be easy, 1 will be long and easy, 1 will be tempo / power work (a quality session). Swims will be much more focused around threshold (CSS) work, with the odd speed session thrown in. Run tempo work would be temop curise intervals for IM or for shorter classic fast repeats, pyramids etc. Bike is usually focused around your tradition 2x20min style work. As I get closer to an event I will do some slightly easier intervals focussing on leg speed.

When training for IM I peaked at 18.5 hours a week.

[joshcowin]

Scabutz said:

I am in a massive lack of motivation phase at the min so not a lot.

When I am on it I usually follow a fairly standard 3x3x3 routine of 3 swims, 3 bikes, 3 runs. For bike and run 1 will be easy, 1 will be long and easy, 1 will be tempo / power work (a quality session). Swims will be much more focused around threshold (CSS) work, with the odd speed session thrown in. Run tempo work would be temop curise intervals for IM or for shorter classic fast repeats, pyramids etc. Bike is usually focused around your tradition 2x20min style work. As I get closer to an event I will do some slightly easier intervals focussing on leg speed.

When training for IM I peaked at 18.5 hours a week.

Interesting, I have no idea what any of that means, I've clearly got a lot to learn! Thanks for the insight though!

Seriously impressive you have raced in ironman, what one/s have you done? The iron cowboy documentary on netflix is a good watch amazing what he put his body through!

[Scabutz]

joshcowin said:

Seriously impressive you have raced in ironman, what one/s have you done?

Get ready to be slightly less impressed. I never actually raced. Ended up is hospital a week before with an out of control skin infection. Was supposed to do Ironman Lanzarote.

Thinking of returning to it next year for redemption though

[craig r]

joshcowin said:

What are your guys training weeks looking like?

The plan looks like:

Monday - 5k run before work / SL 5x5 after work
Tuesday - 10 mile TT on the bike before work / interval run for 30ish minutes after work
Wednesay - SL 5x5 after work and then whatever the coach says at swim session with the tri club
Thursday - group run with the tri club in the evening, again whatever the coach says
Friday - rest day or SL 5x5 and a yoga session (depends if the wife is working a late shift)
Saturday - OW swim followed by a ride out with the club
Sunday - Long run or ride depending on what I feel like

What I actually do frequently does not look like the above! But when things go right and I do manage it all I feel really good!

[Randy Winkman]

Scabutz said:

joshcowin said:

Seriously impressive you have raced in ironman, what one/s have you done?

Get ready to be slightly less impressed. I never actually raced. Ended up is hospital a week before with an out of control skin infection. Was supposed to do Ironman Lanzarote.

Thinking of returning to it next year for redemption though

That's a real shame. I hope you have some success next time. I did an Ironman distance race back in 1996. It wasn't an official Ironman, it was the Longest Day triathlon in/around Wolverhampton. My main memory to pass on was that it was enjoyable in a way that shorter distance races simply aren't. Participants were pleased to have got there and spectators were encouraging and supportive of everyone. The fact that the race takes place at a slower tempo means that everyone has time to encourage everyone else. Though that was 1996, no idea if it's the same now. I really hope so.