The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
The whole incident is awful.
As a responsible gun owner, I do sense that the media narrative is now shifting to look at why the police withdrew/returned his certificate rather than whether people should be allowed to own guns in the first place.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-582097...
If that’s the case, it’s probably no bad thing…if the Police are encouraged to enforce the current rules properly rather than there being just blanket calls to ban guns outright, that’s probably a sensible outcome.
As a responsible gun owner, I do sense that the media narrative is now shifting to look at why the police withdrew/returned his certificate rather than whether people should be allowed to own guns in the first place.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-582097...
If that’s the case, it’s probably no bad thing…if the Police are encouraged to enforce the current rules properly rather than there being just blanket calls to ban guns outright, that’s probably a sensible outcome.
aeropilot said:
Love Labradors said:
after the tragic shooting spree in Plymouth i am concerned to see several news outlets especially the BBC are starting to question 'gun ownership and licencing'
whoever wrote the BBC article knows nothing
Sadly the BBC know exactly what they are doing. They did exactly the same post Hungerford and post Dunblane, and are whipping up their own agenda.whoever wrote the BBC article knows nothing
Sadly the BBC stopped being an impartial, only reporting the facts news organisation decades ago, and is purely a political tool........with its own agenda, which we are all forced to pay for.
However, the BBC's agenda is hugely annoying. There are 586,000 people with either a shotgun certificate or a firearms licence in the UK. How many instances do we have a decade of someone with a SGC or FAL going postal? One or two? Versus the number of shootings with illegal firearms?
The "something has to be done" mantra is just an excuse to persecute those who enjoy shooting.
Focus really should be on what was the alleged assault that caused his guns to be removed and what checks were done at the time/after into his mental state etc. Evidence apparently of various rants on social media etc. It's likely to be a very freak one off type incident, as someone said the certificate system appears to work very well compared to the number of firearm offences annually by unlicensed or illegal guns.
The lack of understanding and sheer antipathy towards guns is blatant on socials at the moment.
People not knowing there were such things as pump actions, no need for anyone to have any type of gun (not even farmers) and using the three year old as an emotional battering ram to lead the charge on making all guns illegal.
Forget the fact that over the last 32 years there have been c.52 deaths from mass shootings compared to c. 128,000 deaths or serious injuries resulting from drink driving.
Let’s jump on the bandwagon and make 1.4 million shotguns illegal, rather than address the real issues around licensing and the impact that budget cuts has on FLO workload and reluctance to get involved in revocations.
People not knowing there were such things as pump actions, no need for anyone to have any type of gun (not even farmers) and using the three year old as an emotional battering ram to lead the charge on making all guns illegal.
Forget the fact that over the last 32 years there have been c.52 deaths from mass shootings compared to c. 128,000 deaths or serious injuries resulting from drink driving.
Let’s jump on the bandwagon and make 1.4 million shotguns illegal, rather than address the real issues around licensing and the impact that budget cuts has on FLO workload and reluctance to get involved in revocations.
its unfortunate it was a pump shotgun
these are too often shown in gangster movies etc - its seen as sexy when they rack the slide - the click/clack
even glamorised more when done single handed by the likes of Willis/Stalone etc
i was given a Winchester pump by a guy who stopped shooting - i had a certificate and this was pre limits on rounds
at the time i was doing a lot of goose flighting and it was perfect
it was chambered for 3" and despite being heavy i found it reduced recoil with these heavy loads
sadly it was old and when i took it to the gunsmith for a check-up it failed proof and needed resleeving - far too expensive
so it went to gun heaven
overnight there has been more s
t from the papers and news channels
you would think a journalist earning say £100K would do a bit of research and learn the difference between a shotgun certificate and a firearms licence?
but facts don't stir up public hysteria and anti gun lobbies
some are saying the Police should monitor the social media of licence holders? -wtf
liberals in all other matters would call that a surveillance society
i have no social media presence so slip through the net whilst planning a killing spree?
these are too often shown in gangster movies etc - its seen as sexy when they rack the slide - the click/clack
even glamorised more when done single handed by the likes of Willis/Stalone etc
i was given a Winchester pump by a guy who stopped shooting - i had a certificate and this was pre limits on rounds
at the time i was doing a lot of goose flighting and it was perfect
it was chambered for 3" and despite being heavy i found it reduced recoil with these heavy loads
sadly it was old and when i took it to the gunsmith for a check-up it failed proof and needed resleeving - far too expensive
so it went to gun heaven
overnight there has been more s
t from the papers and news channelsyou would think a journalist earning say £100K would do a bit of research and learn the difference between a shotgun certificate and a firearms licence?
but facts don't stir up public hysteria and anti gun lobbies
some are saying the Police should monitor the social media of licence holders? -wtf
liberals in all other matters would call that a surveillance society
i have no social media presence so slip through the net whilst planning a killing spree?
FurtiveFreddy said:
Another token gesture might be to make all pumps and semi-autos S1.
They have to be seen to be doing something of course.
They have to be seen to be doing something of course.
Really hope not, and I hope BASC and the other shooting organisations have the stones to jump all over it if they do try. Many clay shooters use semis these days, and many rough shooters for pest control use S2 semis and pumps.
Common sense needs to apply here, and the action of the gun has no relevance as to the outcome of this incident. An O/U would have had exactly the same effect.
This should all be about applying licensing checks properly and perhaps introducing a small "good reason" check for a SGC may be appropriate. I'd like to believe this guy would never have got a FAC as he'd never have been approved for a club membership nor got permission to shoot on land. So perhaps something similar but less restrictive for an SGC would be appropriate, I.e. prove you have a clay club membership (but no restrictions on where you can shoot) or prove you have permission to shoot on land (but again no restrictions once granted). Would maybe weed out the "get a shotgun because I can" crew.
jan8p said:
perhaps introducing a small "good reason" check for a SGC may be appropriate.
It would have no effect; the perpetrator (and anyone else) would just say they wanted to go clay shooting. We already have some of the tightest gun laws in the world and this recent tragedy is thankfully something that is extremely rare. Tighter gun laws, even just adding ‘good reason’, are a slippery slope to an outright ban.
As a grown up society we have to accept that in return for our freedoms, occasionally people will abuse those abs do harm to others. Tighter gun controls or bans won’t stop crazy people going on rampages. We’ll end up in a situation where nobody is allowed knives, axes, hockey sticks…or even to leave home ‘without good reason’ in case they strangle someone.
It’s a tragedy, but I hope common sense prevails and the laws remain unchanged.
chemistry said:
It would have no effect; the perpetrator (and anyone else) would just say they wanted to go clay shooting.
We already have some of the tightest gun laws in the world and this recent tragedy is thankfully something that is extremely rare. Tighter gun laws, even just adding ‘good reason’, are a slippery slope to an outright ban.
As a grown up society we have to accept that in return for our freedoms, occasionally people will abuse those abs do harm to others. Tighter gun controls or bans won’t stop crazy people going on rampages. We’ll end up in a situation where nobody is allowed knives, axes, hockey sticks…or even to leave home ‘without good reason’ in case they strangle someone.
It’s a tragedy, but I hope common sense prevails and the laws remain unchanged.
Don't get me wrong, I agree. But surely adding a bit of "peer review" by means of having to go to a club and actually engage on a social level with responsible gun owners would weed out a few people, and hardly onerous for people with a valid desire to get an SGC.We already have some of the tightest gun laws in the world and this recent tragedy is thankfully something that is extremely rare. Tighter gun laws, even just adding ‘good reason’, are a slippery slope to an outright ban.
As a grown up society we have to accept that in return for our freedoms, occasionally people will abuse those abs do harm to others. Tighter gun controls or bans won’t stop crazy people going on rampages. We’ll end up in a situation where nobody is allowed knives, axes, hockey sticks…or even to leave home ‘without good reason’ in case they strangle someone.
It’s a tragedy, but I hope common sense prevails and the laws remain unchanged.
None.
I'm on the fence, I can see the benefits of the SGC process as it is, and I don't disagree with it. I can also see how a couple of small changes may help ensure guns only end up with people who want them for a valid purpose without inconveniencing too much or removing too much freedom.
I'm on the fence, I can see the benefits of the SGC process as it is, and I don't disagree with it. I can also see how a couple of small changes may help ensure guns only end up with people who want them for a valid purpose without inconveniencing too much or removing too much freedom.
jan8p said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree. But surely adding a bit of "peer review" by means of having to go to a club and actually engage on a social level with responsible gun owners would weed out a few people, and hardly onerous for people with a valid desire to get an SGC.
I've no intention of stepping foot in a club to be vetted or reviewed annually etc. I don't shoot clays very often. Fully law abiding and responsible plus open ticket fac. a colleague who wants his shotgun license will be granted shortly hopefully and come with me on odd days out, why should he have to do further additional checks because of this sad but rare incident? jan8p said:
None.
I'm on the fence, I can see the benefits of the SGC process as it is, and I don't disagree with it. I can also see how a couple of small changes may help ensure guns only end up with people who want them for a valid purpose without inconveniencing too much or removing too much freedom.
It's too soon to say for sure, but it seems to me that the rules are about right, they just need to be applied better. I'm on the fence, I can see the benefits of the SGC process as it is, and I don't disagree with it. I can also see how a couple of small changes may help ensure guns only end up with people who want them for a valid purpose without inconveniencing too much or removing too much freedom.
I have a full cabinet of FAC rimfire, centrefire, air and shotgun PLUS a SGC O/U and S/S.
I am astonished that an FEO green lit this guys application. He is living in an urban city, in a flat, in a rough area, he looks a freak, he has no land to shoot over and no history or membership with a clay club, His only purchase was immediately a pump action. Within a very short space of time there is a police allegation of assault.
Without even glancing at his social media history (where would you start and finish looking?) I would have thought the SGC request would be denied.
I think it might be a sensible requirement for SGC to implement a reasonable use with some evidence. IF they say they want to shoot clays then they'd need a years membership of a clay club first, a letter from the club Chairman saying they attended half a dozen times and seem safe handling the club guns. Then until the first renewal no option of storing the gun at home overnight.
I think the days of some random 21 year old having a pump action because he wants a pump action in the house have now sadly gone. When 3yr old little girls are being blown away in broad daylight it is inevitable that the public enquiry and politics will demand change.
Frankly the way society is going that may be no bad thing.
I am astonished that an FEO green lit this guys application. He is living in an urban city, in a flat, in a rough area, he looks a freak, he has no land to shoot over and no history or membership with a clay club, His only purchase was immediately a pump action. Within a very short space of time there is a police allegation of assault.
Without even glancing at his social media history (where would you start and finish looking?) I would have thought the SGC request would be denied.
I think it might be a sensible requirement for SGC to implement a reasonable use with some evidence. IF they say they want to shoot clays then they'd need a years membership of a clay club first, a letter from the club Chairman saying they attended half a dozen times and seem safe handling the club guns. Then until the first renewal no option of storing the gun at home overnight.
I think the days of some random 21 year old having a pump action because he wants a pump action in the house have now sadly gone. When 3yr old little girls are being blown away in broad daylight it is inevitable that the public enquiry and politics will demand change.
Frankly the way society is going that may be no bad thing.
correct me if i'm wrong but to obtain a shotgun certificate you do not have to prove membership of a clay ground or shooting rights over a section of land?
also you make hugely derogatory comments about the guys appearance as a reason to deny a certificate - please post a photograph of yourself
i may be a bit out of date since my certificate was a long time ago
basically as the law stood at my time - you are allowed to own a shotgun unless the Police can prove why you should not own one?
now Firearms are totally different in which you have to prove to the Police that you 'need' to own said firearm
so, yes you need a landowner who consents to you use a firearm on his/her land
as i said my comments are based over thirty years ago
i would question why you are so anti pump guns?
people go on about a three year old child - is that childs life worth more than say a fifty year old - strange logic?
all life is precious
also as you seem to be so well informed you may recall a paper done by the Home Office about storage of shoguns/firearms at clubs etc
after full consultation with the Police and Military this was a non viable option because you create effectively 'arsenals' for the mass storage of weapons likely to become terrorist targets
also you make hugely derogatory comments about the guys appearance as a reason to deny a certificate - please post a photograph of yourself
i may be a bit out of date since my certificate was a long time ago
basically as the law stood at my time - you are allowed to own a shotgun unless the Police can prove why you should not own one?
now Firearms are totally different in which you have to prove to the Police that you 'need' to own said firearm
so, yes you need a landowner who consents to you use a firearm on his/her land
as i said my comments are based over thirty years ago
i would question why you are so anti pump guns?
people go on about a three year old child - is that childs life worth more than say a fifty year old - strange logic?
all life is precious
also as you seem to be so well informed you may recall a paper done by the Home Office about storage of shoguns/firearms at clubs etc
after full consultation with the Police and Military this was a non viable option because you create effectively 'arsenals' for the mass storage of weapons likely to become terrorist targets
Edited by Love Labradors on Sunday 15th August 11:08
Edited by Love Labradors on Sunday 15th August 11:11
Edited by Love Labradors on Sunday 15th August 11:12
Edited by Love Labradors on Sunday 15th August 11:14
Edited by Love Labradors on Sunday 15th August 11:16
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