The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
madbadger said:
944fan said:
madbadger said:
Last weekend.
1.5 degrees.
Mentalist.1.5 degrees.
I had a panic attack in the Thames when it was 16 degrees. :-) Must MTFU for this season
They are the real mentalists.
944fan said:
boyse7en said:
Hi guys,
Sorry to butt in, but I've dropped back on my running training recently, and I am thinking about doing a bit of swimming so I don't completely lose my fitness.
Can anyone recommend a plan for a beginner to follow? I can swim OK, but don't have much upper-body stamina so need to build up. Not going to be doing any races/competitions or record attempts
There are a few on the web and there is usually some in Triathlon magazines. However, I think these plans are too messy and focus far too much on kicking and pulling. There is also the Speedo/British Gas website which has some plans on. Not looked at those.Sorry to butt in, but I've dropped back on my running training recently, and I am thinking about doing a bit of swimming so I don't completely lose my fitness.
Can anyone recommend a plan for a beginner to follow? I can swim OK, but don't have much upper-body stamina so need to build up. Not going to be doing any races/competitions or record attempts
I have a swim coach whom I see every couple of months, he checks my technique and gives me a plan. Sessions vary between endurance, speed, technique, and threshold.
Some of my workouts will look like this:
5 x 400m with 30-40 seconds rest. Aiming for 6:40.
18 x 100m with 10 seconds rest
4 x 100m 30 seconds rest @ 70%, 6 x 75m with 20 seconds rest @ 80%, 8 x 50m with 15 seconds rest @ 90%
The key with any workout is to know what the appropriate pace is. So for example when I am doing 18 x 100m I go off every 1:50. I am aiming to complete the 100 meters I between 1:35-1:40. You need to find a pace where you can complete the full set with the allocated rests.
I've been swimming 5 times a week for sometime now so those workouts might be a bit much for you. Start with maybe 10/12 x 100m with 20 seconds rest. and 3/4 x 400m with 40-50 seconds rest in between.
You can do something called a Critical Swim Speed test (CSS). You CSS is your threshold pace, which is suppose to indicate how fast you could swim each 100m of a 1500m. Checkout the swim smooth website for details on that. Basically you do a 400m time trial and then a 200m time trial and do some maths with the results of those.
If 400's are a little monotonous we used to do broken 400's as 125 continunous medium pace, 2 x 75s at a higher pace and 5 x 25 fast. All this is split by 5 seconds. 10 if you feel you need it.
One of the worst sets I used to do was 21 x 100's in blocks of 7 on 1.45 ... 10 BBM (or 10 beats below max HR, or in other words, as hard as you could go in training).
Do similar now but in a descending pattern of 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 x 75m on 1.45 but at 100 PB - 15%.
Sarkmeister said:
I'm currently training for an Ironman as well (Outlaw in July), so will be spending a fair amount of time in the pool over the next few months.
I learnt to swim "properly" a couple of years ago when I fancied doing triathlons. I went from never having done any front crawl/freestyle to being able to "get round" the swim stage of triathlons by having a few sessions with a coach. Sadly, I never really trained enough, or continued the coaching so I'm still pretty slow (a 1500m OW swim takes around 33mins).
I'm pretty sure my technique is awful, so I've got a 90min session in a continuous pool (with cameras etc) with a coach at the end of next week. Hopefully doing that a couple of times, and actually swimming more regularly will make it all a bit easier/quicker.
I'll report back on how the session goes.
All you can do is swim more. Its the only way. A big part is simply feel for the water which you can only get through lots of swimming. Even after 20+ years, if I am out of the pool for a week, the feeling on the hand becomes alien. Takes a session to feel right again.I learnt to swim "properly" a couple of years ago when I fancied doing triathlons. I went from never having done any front crawl/freestyle to being able to "get round" the swim stage of triathlons by having a few sessions with a coach. Sadly, I never really trained enough, or continued the coaching so I'm still pretty slow (a 1500m OW swim takes around 33mins).
I'm pretty sure my technique is awful, so I've got a 90min session in a continuous pool (with cameras etc) with a coach at the end of next week. Hopefully doing that a couple of times, and actually swimming more regularly will make it all a bit easier/quicker.
I'll report back on how the session goes.
If any of you guys want to see some good videos on particularly freestyle technique I have found Gary Hall snr of The Race Club on YT to have very thorough and well explained videos on what your hands and arms and body should be doing.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 16th February 17:22
944fan said:
madbadger said:
Last weekend.
1.5 degrees.
Mentalist.1.5 degrees.
I had a panic attack in the Thames when it was 16 degrees. :-) Must MTFU for this season
944fan said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Did anyone here do the ASA T30 challenge?
How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
Not heard of that. Hardest part I imagine is knowing how to pace yourself. I am so used to having a set distance and target time and pacing myself accordingly. Not knowing what distance to aim for will make that hard.How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
Still going to try it though :-)
Doing backstroke meant I could check the clock, obsviously the first 50 is way too fast... always is. But by the 3rd or 4th, get into the rhythm and then just forget about the clock for a while.
On freestyle I am normally pretty good pace wise, can normally hit the asked for TT first go. Its actually harder to do the slower times because like when driving, you have a natural speed that feels good. This is the result of many years of training though. We used to have end of session competitions where if you hit the target time asked for, you could get out...if you didn't you were staying in!
Also, doing sets like:
18 x 50 on 50 with the following TT: 40,32,38,32,36,32 x 3
The 32's were quite challenging at the time, and the short rest meant there was no way you were gonna be swimming any faster on the slower ones than you had to.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Hardest part is counting! I was sure I was way above 2000 m but when I got out I was glad I put the little spurt in during the last 2 minutes to bag another 150 m otherwise it would have been very tight!
Hopefully the Garmin Swim will take care of the counting. I checked my current training plan and every 4th week I am suppose to have a recovery week and one of my swims is dropped for a 30 min TT. I had been ignoring that for a while!Will try that next week
Went swimming this morning after having last Thursday off due to illness. Managed 98 lengths in 46 minutes which was good considering it came off the back of a 17k run last night. I need to try and slip in another swimming session some time during the week as I am getting the feeling that one is not enough!
Otispunkmeyer said:
Did anyone here do the ASA T30 challenge?
How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
Not this year, but a couple back, I won the 30-34 age group in the T30. Must be a few years ago now as I'm 37 this year, but have the medal and certificate in a box somewhere.How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
My last competition was National Masters at Ponds Forge back in 2013 which I hadn't really trained for - was much better back in 2011/12. I'm not swimming at all at the moment due to my old club changing their training times which makes it impossible for me to get to training with my current job and there is no other club with a decent Masters section within 30 miles of where I live. Notwithstanding that, a new baby boy means that I wouldn't go much even if I were able. So I've shelved any hopes of any proper swimming until at least 40, possibly make another comeback to competition in when I hit the 45-49 age group. That's the great thing about swimming to a high level as a kid - once you get the technique you don't lose it so much, its just a case of getting swim fit.
Anyone wanting a great OW race, try the Brownsea Island swim in Poole Harbour - beautiful location and a real challenge - entries must open for it soon.
Highway Star said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Did anyone here do the ASA T30 challenge?
How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
Not this year, but a couple back, I won the 30-34 age group in the T30. Must be a few years ago now as I'm 37 this year, but have the medal and certificate in a box somewhere.How far you could swim in 30 minutes. None of us are really that fast where I train, but one guy managed 2400m. I decided it might be fun to see how far I could do if I did backstroke. Managed 2100m. No it wasn't fun.
When I was younger I'd have been able to do closer to 3000 m (freestyle). I remember a training session once that had 3 x1500m in it. We had them done and dusted within the hour no problem. It'd be cool to see how far people like Sun Yang could go in 30 minutes. I am guessing he'd be well beyond 3km.
My last competition was National Masters at Ponds Forge back in 2013 which I hadn't really trained for - was much better back in 2011/12. I'm not swimming at all at the moment due to my old club changing their training times which makes it impossible for me to get to training with my current job and there is no other club with a decent Masters section within 30 miles of where I live. Notwithstanding that, a new baby boy means that I wouldn't go much even if I were able. So I've shelved any hopes of any proper swimming until at least 40, possibly make another comeback to competition in when I hit the 45-49 age group. That's the great thing about swimming to a high level as a kid - once you get the technique you don't lose it so much, its just a case of getting swim fit.
Anyone wanting a great OW race, try the Brownsea Island swim in Poole Harbour - beautiful location and a real challenge - entries must open for it soon.
I've only been swimming once a week for the past 2 weeks. I felt terrible in the pool yesterday so that has to stop! Normal service this week I hope!
Also I acquired a new training tool.... sponge on a rope!
944fan said:
Pretty good week in the pool. Clocked my biggest ever volume at 12.7km and also squeezed out at a PB in the 400m at 6:18.6. 3 and a bit seconds off. Feel like I can go faster still.
Really hopping I can break 6 mins by the end of the year
Good target, you should be able to do that by the years end!Really hopping I can break 6 mins by the end of the year
I does make me laugh though swimming, I mean no slight on you by this either, but whilst you, like my triathlon friends are targeting a 6 minute time for the 400. I know if I did a set of 400's tomorrow that I could comfortably do them on a 5:40 repeat.
Now that might seem like an impossible yawning chasm and it sounds like I'm being all smug, but its the same for me too! A few weeks ago I raced a guy over 100 IM who well and truly trounced everyone, myself included. Young lad as well, probably not even in his 20's. Turns out he is on Scotland's common wealth team and his 400 PB is in the 3.40's somewhere.
Likewise raced other young lads in the Leicester leagues who once in the water, you don't see which way they went! I remember one race where I thought I'd done quite well, maybe even won it. Nope, the other guy was so fast he was out of my sight by the end of the first length and had been finished about 4 seconds before I came in!
The mind boggles! It really does, and they're no taller or more built than I am.... its just some innate ability. Even when I was doing the kind of training and meters they're doing now, I was no where near that kind of speed!
I am helping some friends to get better at swimming for their triathlons and they shake their heads in bemusement at how I can move through the water with so little apparent effort. They don't realise that I look up to the next tier of swimmers with the same wonderment!
I've swam in a lane next to people like Ross Davenport before whilst he's doing repeat 50's coming in on 25-26 (from a push) as some kind of post competition recovery swim. Meanwhile I'm all out of ideas trying to keep up! I've seen Liam Tancock do 23 seconds for a 50... all underwater dolphin kick. I'll be lucky if I can even do a 50 underwater just dolphin kicking!
That kind of level, for me, seems unattainable and always has! without some kind of genuine natural ability! or magic.
I'd actually bet you could be doing 5:40's for 400's within the next 2 years whereas me improving my times to the next level is about as likely as getting to mars. Once you hit 6 minutes and dip under, you'll just keep going!
I know what you mean. I'm 6'5'', with 6'8'' arm span, quite well built with good strength. I am probably faster than most "recreational swimmers/triathletes" in the pool but then sometimes the local clubs have some lanes as well and there are tiny girls in their late teams who aren't just faster than me but absolutely shoot past me and probably lap me over the course of 100m. It amazes me because I think my stroke is pretty good but how can theirs be so much better than mine. How can they be that much fitter, especially when they probably haven't finished growing.
18 months ago I was trying to go under 7 mins and now I am doing 5 x 400 repeats at 6:40 with 30 secs rest. I have seen some pretty good improvements. Only started swimming just under two years ago and couldn't even swim 400m at all back then.
18 months ago I was trying to go under 7 mins and now I am doing 5 x 400 repeats at 6:40 with 30 secs rest. I have seen some pretty good improvements. Only started swimming just under two years ago and couldn't even swim 400m at all back then.
Oh at that age the younguns, if in decent training, are rather gobsmacking. Their outright pace often isn't quick which is purely down to physical strength and power, but their rate of improvement is mega.
At my old club, we had 11-13 year olds who'd do a full programme of swims for a weekend, 100's and 200's of each stroke, 200's IM, 400's FC etc. Heats, finals, sometimes semi finals and they'd PB each and every time they got in the pool. A friends son, who's a bit of a late bloomer has just started to grow out a bit and within the space of 4 months his 100 backstroke time dropped from 66 seconds to 62 seconds. He's gone from being slower than me, to faster than me in 4 months and backstroke is my favorite stroke!
Still got him on the 50 sprint though... just! Only a matter of time. He's still a whippet by comparison, but swimming is all about managing and balancing drag with power. The young kids have tiny cross-sections in the water whilst at the same time see a rapid increase in strength so for a while improvements come thick and fast.
At my old club, we had 11-13 year olds who'd do a full programme of swims for a weekend, 100's and 200's of each stroke, 200's IM, 400's FC etc. Heats, finals, sometimes semi finals and they'd PB each and every time they got in the pool. A friends son, who's a bit of a late bloomer has just started to grow out a bit and within the space of 4 months his 100 backstroke time dropped from 66 seconds to 62 seconds. He's gone from being slower than me, to faster than me in 4 months and backstroke is my favorite stroke!
Still got him on the 50 sprint though... just! Only a matter of time. He's still a whippet by comparison, but swimming is all about managing and balancing drag with power. The young kids have tiny cross-sections in the water whilst at the same time see a rapid increase in strength so for a while improvements come thick and fast.
krallicious said:
Another good pool session this morning. 2.65km in 48 minutes coming off the back of a 24.4km run yesterday afternoon. I still think that I need to sneak in at least one other pool session in the week but I am struggling to find the time.
Start by not running 1000km a week? 
Running is boring too....I can post up some of the sets I've been doing with the masters club I swim for if people want?
To be honest I am not sure whether there is any rhythm or rhyme to the sets, its just a bunch of swimming. Not ideal, but then we don't have a coach and the guy who has the sets hasn't the time to be producing a proper yearly training plan.
Anyway, last nights: Pretty boring and was hard work because I went to the gym the night before and was doing shoulder press and weighted wide grip pull ups. Then neglected to stretch afterwards.
Warm up:
300m change stroke every 50
2 x 100 "something" can't remember
6 x 50 as 25 drill, 25 swim
Main:
2 x 400 as 1 steady, 2 first half steady, last half fast. These were on 6 minutes. Supposed to be all freestyle but I did the second one backstroke because my arms were burning! They hurt less doing backstroke.
4 x 200 with fins. 200 free, 200 no-free, concentrating on turns, at least 10 m off each wall. These were on 3.10
12 x 50 as 25 fast 25 easy, then 25 easy 25 fast. All choice but working the walls and the breakouts.
Some swim down (around 200 m).
Think that was prep for tonight which is long course and I think has "how many 200's can you do in 30 minutes".... should be fun. not.
To be honest I am not sure whether there is any rhythm or rhyme to the sets, its just a bunch of swimming. Not ideal, but then we don't have a coach and the guy who has the sets hasn't the time to be producing a proper yearly training plan.
Anyway, last nights: Pretty boring and was hard work because I went to the gym the night before and was doing shoulder press and weighted wide grip pull ups. Then neglected to stretch afterwards.
Warm up:
300m change stroke every 50
2 x 100 "something" can't remember
6 x 50 as 25 drill, 25 swim
Main:
2 x 400 as 1 steady, 2 first half steady, last half fast. These were on 6 minutes. Supposed to be all freestyle but I did the second one backstroke because my arms were burning! They hurt less doing backstroke.
4 x 200 with fins. 200 free, 200 no-free, concentrating on turns, at least 10 m off each wall. These were on 3.10
12 x 50 as 25 fast 25 easy, then 25 easy 25 fast. All choice but working the walls and the breakouts.
Some swim down (around 200 m).
Think that was prep for tonight which is long course and I think has "how many 200's can you do in 30 minutes".... should be fun. not.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 27th February 09:47
I do breast stoke (4km a week) as it gives the most exercise to my ankle and stops it freezing up (shatter leg and dislocated ankle) however Im a head above water guy as I can't see crap with my glasses off (-3 and -3.25).
Can someone recommend me a set of prescription googles and nose clips so I can move on and stop this not being able to put my head under?
Can someone recommend me a set of prescription googles and nose clips so I can move on and stop this not being able to put my head under?
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