The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW
Discussion
onedsla said:
Highway Star - in the 20 x 100 session you describe, would you swim the reps at about 400m race pace?
Yes, I was going around 72-74, so pretty much what I'd be aiming for on the 2nd 200 of a 400 or hitting during an 800.Just so you are aware in terms of the qualifying time, that is the 'tier 1' time for the British Champs (LC), which is new for this year. British Swimming introduced tougher tier 1 standards for the LC champs as the number of swimmers that can swim in the single LC pool is a lot lower than at the Nationals (SC) in October, where two 25m pools are run at Sheffield. Swimmers achieving the tier 1 times had a few weeks to enter the British Champs in March before entries were opened for those with the slower tier 2 times.
The times for the SC Nationals aren't anywhere near as fast as the LC tier 1 times.
Highway Star said:
The times for the SC Nationals aren't anywhere near as fast as the LC tier 1 times.
Thanks. 20 sounds extreme for now, but have to keep reminding myself that I was doing nothing a month ago. I hadn't spotted the SC champs. It's difficult to justify travelling so far for such a short race, but then I could tick off the 50/100 times to make the travel worthwhile (though not much different to doubling up in the British Athletics League, I guess).
I had very little opportunity to swim LC in my youth, being in North West UK and prior to Liverpool / Manchester pools. I often used my school 12.5m pool in the mornings, so turns were once my forte. In a schools race I almost made 50m BS only a single surface stroke. This made LC at regional / national champs was quite a shock - felt the length would never end.
onedsla said:
Thanks. 20 sounds extreme for now, but have to keep reminding myself that I was doing nothing a month ago. I hadn't spotted the SC champs.
It's difficult to justify travelling so far for such a short race, but then I could tick off the 50/100 times to make the travel worthwhile (though not much different to doubling up in the British Athletics League, I guess).
I had very little opportunity to swim LC in my youth, being in North West UK and prior to Liverpool / Manchester pools. I often used my school 12.5m pool in the mornings, so turns were once my forte. In a schools race I almost made 50m BS only a single surface stroke. This made LC at regional / national champs was quite a shock - felt the length would never end.
The SC champs at Sheffield are the bigger of the two, they are the flagship event in Masters swimming pretty much and the event everyone targets. Its over 3 days at the end of October, so swimming multiple events is no problem really and much easier than doubling up in an afternoon's athletics match.It's difficult to justify travelling so far for such a short race, but then I could tick off the 50/100 times to make the travel worthwhile (though not much different to doubling up in the British Athletics League, I guess).
I had very little opportunity to swim LC in my youth, being in North West UK and prior to Liverpool / Manchester pools. I often used my school 12.5m pool in the mornings, so turns were once my forte. In a schools race I almost made 50m BS only a single surface stroke. This made LC at regional / national champs was quite a shock - felt the length would never end.
Likewise, I trained in either 25yd or 25 pools and in the late 80s and early-mid 90s there were no 50m pools in the South West where I grew up, so we needed to go to meets in London or Coventry to get LC practice. Regionals were either the old pools in Gloucester or Plymouth which were both 25m so it was only Nationals that were LC. I hated it and still do, especially on backstroke.
Jambo85 said:
My times are embarrassing anyway compared to most of you lot but it's amazing the difference LC/SC makes - in a 25m pool I can do 50m in 45s almost comfortably, but in the grown up pool I am struggling to get under 50s.
Yep, that little rest (and little underwater) at the turn makes a big difference!Otispunkmeyer said:
Jambo85 said:
My times are embarrassing anyway compared to most of you lot but it's amazing the difference LC/SC makes - in a 25m pool I can do 50m in 45s almost comfortably, but in the grown up pool I am struggling to get under 50s.
Yep, that little rest (and little underwater) at the turn makes a big difference!I think I f
k my breathing up on turns and then it just knackers me out trying to stay under and get past 5m, so in a 50m pool I have more time to get into a rythym and recover.Perhaps I need to work on my turns?
lol!dirty boy said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Jambo85 said:
My times are embarrassing anyway compared to most of you lot but it's amazing the difference LC/SC makes - in a 25m pool I can do 50m in 45s almost comfortably, but in the grown up pool I am struggling to get under 50s.
Yep, that little rest (and little underwater) at the turn makes a big difference!I think I f
k my breathing up on turns and then it just knackers me out trying to stay under and get past 5m, so in a 50m pool I have more time to get into a rythym and recover.Perhaps I need to work on my turns?
lol!Really the major difference in times is due to the turns. If you can do a quick flip, strong push, tight streamline and have good underwater (5th stroke) then it swimming 25m vs 50m will be faster. For some, there is an element of having to swim continuously for longer amount of time tiring you out a bit, but you sorta get used to that fairly quickly. You only have to watch the Olympics and the likes of Phelps/Caleb Dressel to see how much difference good turns and good underwaters can make.
I can't remember the conversions now, but as our club used to train in a 25m pool and compete mostly in 25m pools, when we went to the odd 50m pool or for Nationals (always 50m unless specifically short-course) then I think converting a 100m freestyle from SC to LC was adding like 1.4 seconds? something like that.
Having said that, I used to buck the trend on backstroke. I never used to have very good turns in terms of underwater as I couldn't ever get my fly kick to work (different now though). It didn't matter on freestyle as its the fastest stroke and most people don't do UW faster than their max freestyle so it makes more sense to be up on the surface. But backstroke is like the 3rd fastest stroke, so good UW can be faster than on the surface. My LC backstroke was always faster because crap turns and weirdly I never used to tire quite so fast as I did on freestyle.
Wondering if I can get a bit of guidance if someone wouldn’t mind.
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
supraboy said:
Wondering if I can get a bit of guidance if someone wouldn’t mind.
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
Erm yes that is pretty quick! I’m crap by the standards on this thread but a rough rule of thumb is 1 m/s is better than your average plodder and 2 m/s is properly shifting. I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
You’re above 2 m/s, in the context of the rest of your post you’re either weirdly gifted, a wind up merchant, or your pool isn’t as big as you think it is!
Jambo85 said:
supraboy said:
Wondering if I can get a bit of guidance if someone wouldn’t mind.
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
Erm yes that is pretty quick! I’m crap by the standards on this thread but a rough rule of thumb is 1 m/s is better than your average plodder and 2 m/s is properly shifting. I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
You’re above 2 m/s, in the context of the rest of your post you’re either weirdly gifted, a wind up merchant, or your pool isn’t as big as you think it is!
I cant get anywhere near 24 for a 50 in a 25m pool The world record is 20.91. There is no way someone new to the sport is within 3-5 of the WR.
I think your pool is 25m. 24 secs for a 25m is still a decent effort for someone new.
Scabutz said:
Jambo85 said:
supraboy said:
Wondering if I can get a bit of guidance if someone wouldn’t mind.
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
Erm yes that is pretty quick! I’m crap by the standards on this thread but a rough rule of thumb is 1 m/s is better than your average plodder and 2 m/s is properly shifting. I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
You’re above 2 m/s, in the context of the rest of your post you’re either weirdly gifted, a wind up merchant, or your pool isn’t as big as you think it is!
I cant get anywhere near 24 for a 50 in a 25m pool The world record is 20.91. There is no way someone new to the sport is within 3-5 of the WR.
I think your pool is 25m. 24 secs for a 25m is still a decent effort for someone new.
Unless the clocks aren’t synced together at either side of the pool, it’s a possibility. I’ll get timed, I have a lesson next weekend.
Any insight on having a habit of holding my breath in the middle of breathing out? So I am basically breathing out, pausing and then breathing out again on the way up for intake.
Cheers
supraboy said:
Scabutz said:
Jambo85 said:
supraboy said:
Wondering if I can get a bit of guidance if someone wouldn’t mind.
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
Erm yes that is pretty quick! I’m crap by the standards on this thread but a rough rule of thumb is 1 m/s is better than your average plodder and 2 m/s is properly shifting. I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I am really struggling to get my breathing right, not hindering me on 50m but can begin to struggle on 100m+. I tend to stage my breath out instead of one continuous blow, is that OK?
Cheers
You’re above 2 m/s, in the context of the rest of your post you’re either weirdly gifted, a wind up merchant, or your pool isn’t as big as you think it is!
I cant get anywhere near 24 for a 50 in a 25m pool The world record is 20.91. There is no way someone new to the sport is within 3-5 of the WR.
I think your pool is 25m. 24 secs for a 25m is still a decent effort for someone new.
Unless the clocks aren’t synced together at either side of the pool, it’s a possibility. I’ll get timed, I have a lesson next weekend.
Any insight on having a habit of holding my breath in the middle of breathing out? So I am basically breathing out, pausing and then breathing out again on the way up for intake.
Cheers
Anyway, for breathing, it is tricky, so don't get down about it. It can make the world of difference to get it right too.... for me, I think the main point is that you should be pretty much fully exhaled by the time you come to breath again. It makes the inhale pretty much automatic (i.e. not expending energy to inhale, just relaxing the chest brings the air in).
How you get there is up to you. Best to do what feels comfortable.
For sprints.... head down and breathe when you absolutely have to only. Blow it all out in one go.
For distance.... perhaps better to have a more controlled exhale over a longer time, but if blowing a bit out, holding, then blowing the rest works. Don't worry about it! Just be sure to be fully exhaled before turning to breathe.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 6th May 15:46
Swam at the masters intercounties yesterday.... that was a shock to the system. Haven't competed for over a year now because of a bad shoulder injury but as its better, I thought now was the time to get back racing.
I think my main problem was I hadn't had lunch. I should have had a big brunch as the warm up was 1pm and it was an hours drive. So kinda awkward. I had poached eggs for breakie and then faffed around in the garden all morning. After my first race I was in trouble. I managed to feel just about OK again for the next one but it wasn't my finest swim ever and after that I seriously felt wrong. I was so glad that my last race was in a relay and that I was too far behind to catch the leaders and too far in front for the next guy to catch me. So I could coast. If I'd have had to have gone full bore on that I think they'd be calling the lifeguard.
My legs ached, I felt sick, I felt light headed...about ready to collapse. I am unfit, but not that unfit!
50 back was first though and was about a second off best. Then 2 50's freestyle where I just felt worse and worse.
Young lad I raced in the backstroke was amazing. His actual stroke could have done with some work, but it didn't matter, his UW was so good, he seemed to just accelerate! skinny guy as well, totally unassuming! but he beat me by nearly 4 seconds! just with UW work. So thats my focus for this year!
Freestyle was a mixed bag. Half feeling like I was about to faint, but also my injured arm just had no control, it was washing out too much on the pull so some strength work to address that is needed I think.
I think my main problem was I hadn't had lunch. I should have had a big brunch as the warm up was 1pm and it was an hours drive. So kinda awkward. I had poached eggs for breakie and then faffed around in the garden all morning. After my first race I was in trouble. I managed to feel just about OK again for the next one but it wasn't my finest swim ever and after that I seriously felt wrong. I was so glad that my last race was in a relay and that I was too far behind to catch the leaders and too far in front for the next guy to catch me. So I could coast. If I'd have had to have gone full bore on that I think they'd be calling the lifeguard.
My legs ached, I felt sick, I felt light headed...about ready to collapse. I am unfit, but not that unfit!
50 back was first though and was about a second off best. Then 2 50's freestyle where I just felt worse and worse.
Young lad I raced in the backstroke was amazing. His actual stroke could have done with some work, but it didn't matter, his UW was so good, he seemed to just accelerate! skinny guy as well, totally unassuming! but he beat me by nearly 4 seconds! just with UW work. So thats my focus for this year!
Freestyle was a mixed bag. Half feeling like I was about to faint, but also my injured arm just had no control, it was washing out too much on the pull so some strength work to address that is needed I think.
supraboy said:
I have recently started taking this up, and am going to the pool 4-5 times a week. Increasing lengths each time. 30 lengths in a 50m pool today is my max so far.
I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
That's seriously rapid!!! Even at 26secs, with a dive, you'll be under 25secs which would get you a Regional qualifying time in the East..I feel like I’m pretty fast so timed myself today on a 50m sprint, with a push off the wall. By the timing clocks on the side I am doing it in about 24-26 seconds. From what I’m reading that’s pretty fast! Is that correct?
I'd like to do a timed 50m sprint in a 50m pool (which would negate my awful turns) and would love to break 30seconds....I think it's doable, but 25 seconds just is not going to be possible at my age now! (flexibility f
ks me up too)I'm into week 5 of my return to swimming and felt a big improvement after a couple of days off over the long weekend. I inadvertently improved on my 2 week old 400m TT 'best' in today's warm-up in a time which comfortably qualifies me for various masters champs events.
Quick question on that - do I have to be affiliated to a club (as a swimmer) in order to get an official time in a licenced gala, or can I compete as unattached in an open meet? Envisage it would only be on 1-2 occasions per year.
I've also given up on spectating at my daughter's swimming club and joined the coaching staff (so am now tied to a club, but not as a swimmer). I avoid my girl's lane (she'd never listen to me) and so far have been coaching U9s and U11s. The 60-75mins sessions really fly by - beats watching, keeps me current, and nice to give something back to my old sport.
Quick question on that - do I have to be affiliated to a club (as a swimmer) in order to get an official time in a licenced gala, or can I compete as unattached in an open meet? Envisage it would only be on 1-2 occasions per year.
I've also given up on spectating at my daughter's swimming club and joined the coaching staff (so am now tied to a club, but not as a swimmer). I avoid my girl's lane (she'd never listen to me) and so far have been coaching U9s and U11s. The 60-75mins sessions really fly by - beats watching, keeps me current, and nice to give something back to my old sport.
onedsla said:
I'm into week 5 of my return to swimming and felt a big improvement after a couple of days off over the long weekend. I inadvertently improved on my 2 week old 400m TT 'best' in today's warm-up in a time which comfortably qualifies me for various masters champs events.
Quick question on that - do I have to be affiliated to a club (as a swimmer) in order to get an official time in a licenced gala, or can I compete as unattached in an open meet? Envisage it would only be on 1-2 occasions per year.
I've also given up on spectating at my daughter's swimming club and joined the coaching staff (so am now tied to a club, but not as a swimmer). I avoid my girl's lane (she'd never listen to me) and so far have been coaching U9s and U11s. The 60-75mins sessions really fly by - beats watching, keeps me current, and nice to give something back to my old sport.
You do have to be affiliated to a club as a swimmer to compete. If you're helping at your club, then you'll likely already have an ASA number as a helper/coach, so the secretary will easily be able to upgrade you and likely only charge the £13? (I think) to become a Cat2 member and compete https://www.swimmingresults.org/membershipcheck/Quick question on that - do I have to be affiliated to a club (as a swimmer) in order to get an official time in a licenced gala, or can I compete as unattached in an open meet? Envisage it would only be on 1-2 occasions per year.
I've also given up on spectating at my daughter's swimming club and joined the coaching staff (so am now tied to a club, but not as a swimmer). I avoid my girl's lane (she'd never listen to me) and so far have been coaching U9s and U11s. The 60-75mins sessions really fly by - beats watching, keeps me current, and nice to give something back to my old sport.
I only took up swimming two years ago...late thirties...half heartedly at first, but since March I've been pushing on a bit, and am competing at the East Region Open Water Champs in July, i'll probably come last, but i'm having a go at the 3000m.
Reason I took it up is because I wanted to get a feel for what my kids were doing and again, in March this year, I started helping out on deck and am doing L1 coaching assistant later this month, I love it.
dirty boy said:
You do have to be affiliated to a club as a swimmer to compete.
Thanks. Thought that may be the case and hopefully not to difficult in my situation. Strange meaning of 'open' in open meets.dirty boy said:
Open Water Champs in July, i'll probably come last, but i'm having a go at the 3000m.
Good luck with that. I'll be spending a chunk of July in Bermuda where the water temps are probably more pool-like! I will have access to a lap pool, but the sea is usually super-calm in summer so seems pointless going elsewhere with that on my doorstep.dirty boy said:
Reason I took it up is because I wanted to get a feel for what my kids were doing and again, in March this year, I started helping out on deck and am doing L1 coaching assistant later this month, I love it.
Very similar situation to me. It does give a whole new type of 'buzz' that I haven't experienced before. Was up half the night after my first session, writing notes as the memories from my competitive days flooded back. Highway Star said:
Are you swimming the Midlands in Rugby in a couple of weeks? I need to do some training!
No I do t think I am.To be honest whilst I love a good relay, individual racing hasn’t held my interest well recently. I think I’ve got more shoulder work to do. Having said that I also want to have a dabble at bouldering/climbing (indoor). I think it will be a nice change.
I’ve got more work to do so perhaps I’ll look for local masters events (or even just the club events) in a few months.
At the end of the day, whilst I’ve swum for 25 years, most of that competitive, and it would be a shame to just drop it. Sometimes it does feel like I am doing comps because that’s what you do right? At the moment I just have fun at training and I’m happy leaving it there.
I understand what you are saying, my two breaks of 15 years and 5 years have helped me to keep wanting to compete. A lady I train with is an awesome swimmer, she's 52 and is a former European record holder in the 40-44 age group, but she's just totally fallen out of love with competing and only trains now. She just likes being in the water and with the friends she has at the club, some of whom go back 35 years or more.
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