The Swimming Thread - Pool/OW

[Slowboathome]

triggerhappy21 said:

Might not be relevant but the above bold stood out to me. I've read somewhere a long time ago that for some breathing out constantly works for some people, for others it works better to breath out sharply or in stages.

I know that I really struggle with a constant exhale, and find myself gasping for breath pretty quickly. Instead i do two sharp exhales, the last just before the inhale.

FYI I'm a fairly competent swimmer, doing about 3.2km in an hour 2 or 3 times a week.

Thanks mate, I'll try that. I'd be over the moon with 3.2k per hour.

[dirty boy]

Slowboathome said:

triggerhappy21 said:

Might not be relevant but the above bold stood out to me. I've read somewhere a long time ago that for some breathing out constantly works for some people, for others it works better to breath out sharply or in stages.

I know that I really struggle with a constant exhale, and find myself gasping for breath pretty quickly. Instead i do two sharp exhales, the last just before the inhale.

FYI I'm a fairly competent swimmer, doing about 3.2km in an hour 2 or 3 times a week.

Thanks mate, I'll try that. I'd be over the moon with 3.2k per hour.

We look at things in this order

Body postiion
Legs
Arms
Breathing
Timing

If the body, legs and arms are in place, that's a large chunk of doing things right.

As TH says, some will find a short 'blow out' and inhale easier than the trickle and whilst we like alternate breathing as coaches (to both sides) i've found most later arrivals to swimming cope better with breathing every stroke on a more dominant arm (just an obvservation, no data to back up lol!)

Also, once the speed comes more naturally from more training, the head creates a better bow wave which creates more space for a shallower breath and that in turn also brings the legs up.

It's why swimming takes such a long time to get really good at as there's so much to put in place.

Keep at it though and make sure someone records you swimming so you can see eactly what you're doing.

[David_M]

dirty boy said:

I've found most later arrivals to swimming cope better with breathing every stroke on a more dominant arm (just an observation, no data to back up lol!)

I was going to add this, but dirty boy beat me to it. If you are breathing alternate sides, try breathing the same side every stroke - makes a huge difference to how much air you are getting.

I have been swimming for a long time, but have always found breathing on my left "better". Can swim breathing each side and do for a while each session but left is just more natural and therefore easier.

[Antony Moxey]

David_M said:

I was going to add this, but dirty boy beat me to it. If you are breathing alternate sides, try breathing the same side every stroke - makes a huge difference to how much air you are getting.

I have been swimming for a long time, but have always found breathing on my left "better". Can swim breathing each side and do for a while each session but left is just more natural and therefore easier.

Agree with this. I breathe left side, just can't get on with right side breathing. My old coach used to try and get me breathing bilaterally as a balance thing but it didn't work. Anything other than breathing left side is completely alien to me, and has been for about 40 years.

[Salted_Peanut]

Does anyone else feel their club focuses on “fast children” to the extent that masters are second-class citizens? The two groups need different types of coaches – not easy for a club to find – and my club suffers from a drip-drip loss of masters. Is my club unique?

[Highway Star]

I'd agree this is the case in many clubs, especially the larger ones. It was certainly the case at my old club - I was a member of the Masters squad for 12 years there until last year. The club was the biggest and most successful in the County and a regular National finalist in Arena League. The Masters squad was definitely the poor relation- given the fewest number of sessions, taking place at the least sociable times in late evening, not finishing until gone 10 in some cases. Achievements of the Masters squad, including National and European records were never communicated to the wider club, Masters weren't represented on the Committee, weren't allowed to contribute to the club website, never consulted on coaching or session changes.

I don't think it is any coincidence that most of the most successful clubs at Masters Nationals are standalone Masters clubs or have a heavy Masters bias. I'm now at another smaller club, but one where the Masters squad is the most successful in the club. Most of the Committee roles for the wider club are held by Masters swimmers, the Head Coach is a Masters swimmer. The Masters squad is not marginalised, we train alongside the kids in a number of sessions.

[V-spec]

Exactly the same here (Belgium) unfortunately

Masters get less training hours, usually late at night (annoyingly not synchronised with the kids in any way which means drop-off and pickup requires two parents/cars, or I skip training)and there is no focus on us.

We don’t even have a real coach, just someone who is there as a lifeguard (as a legal requirement I guess) We do get a training plan for each session but it is set to accommodate all levels and therefore is rarely very interesting or challenging. There will always be and unspecified 800m warmup (do what you want….) and always be a lengthy element of both Pull and Kick which doesn’t leave time for much else. Deviating from the plan is not appreciated if there are a lot of swimmers, and Diving from the blocks is forbidden (too dangerous!) so it is hard to prepare for competitions.

We have asked for a proper coach on multiple occasions but are told that Masters should already know how to swim Even offering to pay for one ourselves was met with rejection (what if some people don’t want to pay, we can’t give you a separate lane, people like things as they are etc etc)

Our pool is currently closed for maintenance since April and there was a full schedule organised for the kids : swimming at various different pools for 5 months. Masters were just told to train wherever we can and come back in September

Unfortunately there are no other clubs with Masters sections nearby, and the kids section is one of the best in the country so it would be even worse if the kids stayed here and I moved somewhere else

[Salted_Peanut]

V-spec said:

We have asked for a proper coach on multiple occasions but are told that Masters should already know how to swim Even offering to pay for one ourselves was met with rejection

It’s disappointing and baffling

The biggest gains can often come from improved technique, yet technical instruction is rare in my (Masters) experience. I don’t understand it.

[R Mutt]

Jambo85 said:

Antony Moxey said:

Well, when you turn at one end and see they're half a length behind, then turn at the other end and see they're right behind you is maybe a good indication they're faster than you!

Quite. R Mutt I’m a bit lost in what you have described but I think you should seriously consider if you might be the issue!

Overtaking people safely in a 25m pool requires a considerable speed differential particularly if there are more than two people using the lane, so the lady cutting her length short to turn before you is quite reasonable IMO (though sounds like she didn’t give you enough space!) particularly if you’re unaware that people are gaining on you, and therefore not letting them by.

Apologies if I’m wide of the mark here but my local pool is full of people who won’t let others by and it’s very frustrating.

She was coming towards me on my side of the lane and then waved me down, as I was passing her, to tell me she was trying to overtake me. She didn't stop to turn round mid lap, which would've been the sensible solution, along with changing stroke or slowing down, and all the other things I end up doing when it's crowded.

The previous lap she'd done the same thing and I also just turned at the wall and went round her. I can't remember whether there were 3 or 4 in the lane, but 1 was stood in the shallow end during the first encounter so if there were only 3 then it's nobody's fault but her own if she was unable to overtake. At no point did perform any of the etiquette described e.g. edging ahead or overtaking on the turn, else she wouldn't have been ahead of me facing the right direction. I can't explain the issue with the 2nd woman as she was the one stood at the end but she was another trying to overtake on the last 2m then same rules apply, you have 23 other metres to attempt to overtake or turn round or adjust stroke or speed. When someone coming towards me is on the other side of the flags I generally don't have to worry. Either the gap stays the same or they manage to overtake me. I've never had a guy in my face coming out of a turn.

Edited by R Mutt on Sunday 24th July 17:49

[R Mutt]

Why are goggles always let down by the bit that holds the strap to the frame? Simple clips don't have the friction and complex ones with some sort of one way ratchet mechanism also fail.

I've taken to tieing mine but again the silicone lacks the friction so the knot doesn't stay tied. Are there any other hacks?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Salted_Peanut said:

Does anyone else feel their club focuses on “fast children” to the extent that masters are second-class citizens? The two groups need different types of coaches – not easy for a club to find – and my club suffers from a drip-drip loss of masters. Is my club unique?

Sorta similar at ours. We have our own masters sessions (except one session where we have a couple of lanes next to the age groupers), but no coach, the worst times and least sessions. We also pay significantly more per session i think. Also found out that a large majority of the age groupers don't actually compete, so what they're all training for I don't know!

Our session with them, because it's at such a rubbish time, means nearly no masters can make it, so they just take over our lanes. Which is OK whilst it's just me and one or two others, because we can do their set and keep up. But at the end of the day we're paying for those lanes and that time and they're essentially taking over it. We get pushed to lane 6, which I hate because the high pool sides make it very choppy. By rights I should demand they get out of lane 5 as its not theirs... even if the are only two of us turning up!

[Otispunkmeyer]

David_M said:

dirty boy said:

I've found most later arrivals to swimming cope better with breathing every stroke on a more dominant arm (just an observation, no data to back up lol!)

I was going to add this, but dirty boy beat me to it. If you are breathing alternate sides, try breathing the same side every stroke - makes a huge difference to how much air you are getting.

I have been swimming for a long time, but have always found breathing on my left "better". Can swim breathing each side and do for a while each session but left is just more natural and therefore easier.

For the longest time I always tried to keep to breathing 3 or if doing 2, switching sides each length. But I would always struggle for pace on longer sets. Sprints are a different kettle of fish, never had issue there, but generally you're looking to breathe a little as possible. For distance you want more air and breathing 2s should have been OK for me, but it just wasn't working.

Decided a few weeks ago to just change it... breathe 4 or 2, always to the right. I've then been able to really hone in on timing the beats of my kick with the pull and it's been like night and day. Gone from having to miss lengths on 400s and 800s to being able to hold 1.20-1.25 pace without blowing through my arse. And that is as someone who only gets chance to swim twice a week. 200s I could do, but they'd be a slog. Now it's fairly comfortable to hit 230, 235 ish on sets.

I don't know why I resisted for so long. One day I just sat at the end of the lane and watched the fast lads in the age group lanes and saw all of them swimming like this. 2s,4s, same side. Thought I'd try it!


As an aside, watching the commonwealths , the women in their 200 spent quite a bit of time breathing 4s. But then noted the guys doing 2s, even in the 100s on the relays. Would be interesting to hear about why they go like that.

[Otispunkmeyer]

R Mutt said:

Why are goggles always let down by the bit that holds the strap to the frame? Simple clips don't have the friction and complex ones with some sort of one way ratchet mechanism also fail.

I've taken to tieing mine but again the silicone lacks the friction so the knot doesn't stay tied. Are there any other hacks?

What goggles?

I've used speedo speedsockets (v1 and now v2) since I was about 15! Never had any issues with them apart from, eventually, the silicon rims breakdown over time and start disintegrating. But by then I've had more than fair value from them!

I've never even had a strap fail.

[Highway Star]

Merp said:

Ill probably swim the 50/100free, 50/100back, 50fly & 100IM at the masters meet in the summer.

Did you swim at Gloucester this weekend? Me and another club mate came over for it. Was pleased with my swims. Always enjoy swimming there, shame the timing system didn’t play ball, but can’t be helped.

Edited by Highway Star on Monday 8th August 22:26

[Merp]

Highway Star said:

Merp said:

Ill probably swim the 50/100free, 50/100back, 50fly & 100IM at the masters meet in the summer.

Did you swim at Gloucester this weekend? Me and another club mate came over for it. Was pleased with my swims. Always enjoy swimming there, shame the timing system didn’t play ball, but can’t be helped.

Edited by Highway Star on Monday 8th August 22:26

I did! How did you get on?

I swam the 50bk, 100IM, 100Fr & 50Fr. I bottled entering the 100Fly, just as i wasnt confident that my fitness would be there.

That was my first individual event since 2008ish, but the nerves came flooding back.
I went 54.2 in the 100free, which i was happy with. Id set a target in my head to go sub55.
I didnt have much left off of the last turn, my quads were dead and i just had to bury my head for the last 25,
Im now thinking about Nationals in Oct, perhaps sub 54... lets see!

We have been frustrated with the timing system there for a while. As much as we try and work with the leisure centre to improve the reliability, it seems they dont see it as important as we do! Thankfully we were able to hold the open meet atleast.

[Antony Moxey]

Seriously Merp, hats off for the freestyle time, that’s properly quick. What age are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Merp]

34

I swam until i was 19, had 14yrs off, then got back into the pool last year.

My HR was sat >120bpm for over 45mins after that 100Fr
So there is still work to do on fitness (or maybe its just an age thing now)

[Antony Moxey]

So what sort of times were you doing at 19? You must have been not far off the national squad?

[Merp]

Times are below, it looked like i stopped in 2007 after nationals.
I made a couple of national finals when i was 15 onwards, then never really improved much.
I started an apprenticeship/working/other things in my late teens, so the attention went elsewhere.
So i never went to uni with a swim team into my 20s.

Ive had the realisation this year, that i wish id started masters swimming in my mid-late 20s.

[Antony Moxey]

It’s mad that you’re only a second off your 100fs time! I guess the thing with training now is not to get faster but not get any slower as the years progress! Please keep us updated though