The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
I would love to do 1 marathon as an achievement. Thinking about doing the IOM in august. Would be nice to take the car over and have a blast as well, we are on PistonHeads!
Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!
The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.
Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!
The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.
keo said:
Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
My experience is that there is a big step up in difficulty between half and full distance. You may get away with it with just running, but the cumulative volume of training needed and the long run distances will expose any underlying weaknesses that you may have - typically hips and glutes weakness so your knee tends to track not quite straight causing pain, but could be anythingSo it's possible, but it's highly likely that you'll get injured if you don't work on strength as well.
In terms of fuelling, I find it's not really needed up to half marathon distance, but I'll take a couple of gels for anything longer and space them out during the run
Edited by smn159 on Monday 13th March 08:10
Local half marathon on Sunday, and I was watching near the finish.
Lead guy did 1:00:53, with second place in 1:00:54, and they passed me at a pace I doubt I'd be able to sprint a few yards at. The professionals are impressive to watch, even more so that they're wandering around quite happily 5 minute's later. I'd be lead on the floor for a hour if I managed it in double that time
Course record is apparently 58:33 which is insane.
Lead guy did 1:00:53, with second place in 1:00:54, and they passed me at a pace I doubt I'd be able to sprint a few yards at. The professionals are impressive to watch, even more so that they're wandering around quite happily 5 minute's later. I'd be lead on the floor for a hour if I managed it in double that time
Course record is apparently 58:33 which is insane.
keo said:
Thanks smn pretty much confirmed I need to stop being daft and be serious if I want to really do a marathon!
Age is a factor also, the older you are the greater the benefit of strength training!I think you can do a marathon without specific workouts and sessions, building fatigue and running on tired legs is important imo! Racing a marathon and completing one are 2 completely different things!
keo said:
I would love to do 1 marathon as an achievement. Thinking about doing the IOM in august. Would be nice to take the car over and have a blast as well, we are on PistonHeads!
Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!
The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.
For some reason loads of my club got entries into London this year, the thing a lot of them say they find hardest is to juggle the sheer amount of time running with all the other things they have to do in their lives - most plans seem to have four 45+ minute midweek runs then a long run on a Sunday which can be hard to squeeze in.Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!
The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.
keo said:
Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?
Most of it would be slow to just get miles in
You're describing "junk miles" there. A phrase to mean doing miles just for the sake of doing miles. Most of it would be slow to just get miles in
A long run is a staple in most running plans and that's fine. Where the "sessions" are valuable, those quicker ones, or intervals are that they acheive a lot in a short space of time. They also get you running quicker and fitter due to the fluctuating heart rate and tempo.
You don't have to be serious, but instead of just looking at miles, maybe look more at what the point of a particular run is. So rather than just doing 5 miles on a Wednesday because you want to get your mileage up, do:
1 mile warm up.
1 mile at a faster pace
1 mile slow
1 mile fast
1 mile slow/cool down
You then achieve a similar thing there
As for fuelling, that is critical really. Running vests (the hydration ones I mean) are great. Decathlon have them for £30.
Get yourself some gels and electrolyte tablets and you'll feel way stronger over a prolonged period.
redrabbit29 said:
You're describing "junk miles" there. A phrase to mean doing miles just for the sake of doing miles.
A long run is a staple in most running plans and that's fine. Where the "sessions" are valuable, those quicker ones, or intervals are that they acheive a lot in a short space of time. They also get you running quicker and fitter due to the fluctuating heart rate and tempo.
You don't have to be serious, but instead of just looking at miles, maybe look more at what the point of a particular run is. So rather than just doing 5 miles on a Wednesday because you want to get your mileage up, do:
1 mile warm up.
1 mile at a faster pace
1 mile slow
1 mile fast
1 mile slow/cool down
You then achieve a similar thing there
As for fuelling, that is critical really. Running vests (the hydration ones I mean) are great. Decathlon have them for £30.
Get yourself some gels and electrolyte tablets and you'll feel way stronger over a prolonged period.
I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run? A long run is a staple in most running plans and that's fine. Where the "sessions" are valuable, those quicker ones, or intervals are that they acheive a lot in a short space of time. They also get you running quicker and fitter due to the fluctuating heart rate and tempo.
You don't have to be serious, but instead of just looking at miles, maybe look more at what the point of a particular run is. So rather than just doing 5 miles on a Wednesday because you want to get your mileage up, do:
1 mile warm up.
1 mile at a faster pace
1 mile slow
1 mile fast
1 mile slow/cool down
You then achieve a similar thing there
As for fuelling, that is critical really. Running vests (the hydration ones I mean) are great. Decathlon have them for £30.
Get yourself some gels and electrolyte tablets and you'll feel way stronger over a prolonged period.
I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to
joshcowin said:
I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run?
I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to
It took me a while too. Junk miles usually means: miles that could be run better, i.e. with a strategy or goal in hand. The vast majority of club runners/joggers run all their runs in 6-8/10 effort pace meaning the slow runs are too fast and the faster runs suffer as you have fatigue you would be better off without. This applies more so to the runner trying to get from 4hr marathon to 3hr 30 or 3hrs, but of course, every runner would benefit from dedicated slower days, leaving energy for the 'reps'/'fartlek'. I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to
jm8403 said:
joshcowin said:
I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run?
I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to
It took me a while too. Junk miles usually means: miles that could be run better, i.e. with a strategy or goal in hand. The vast majority of club runners/joggers run all their runs in 6-8/10 effort pace meaning the slow runs are too fast and the faster runs suffer as you have fatigue you would be better off without. This applies more so to the runner trying to get from 4hr marathon to 3hr 30 or 3hrs, but of course, every runner would benefit from dedicated slower days, leaving energy for the 'reps'/'fartlek'. I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to
Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.
smn159 said:
Exclusively slow running tends to promote poor form as well, shuffling rather than picking your knees up and a tendency to heel strike, landing ahead of your centre of gravity on a straight leg, which puts excessive loading through the knee and hips. Doing all of your runs at the same slow pace means little variety in the loadings, making overuse injuries more likely.
Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.
That usually depends on the easy pace of the runner in question. A top club runner will do easy pace 7-8min per mile, much easier to have proper 170-180 cadence than 11-12min mile. Indeed, id add strides to many of my tempo runs in marathon blocks (well, the coach would)Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.
jm8403 said:
smn159 said:
Exclusively slow running tends to promote poor form as well, shuffling rather than picking your knees up and a tendency to heel strike, landing ahead of your centre of gravity on a straight leg, which puts excessive loading through the knee and hips. Doing all of your runs at the same slow pace means little variety in the loadings, making overuse injuries more likely.
Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.
That usually depends on the easy pace of the runner in question. A top club runner will do easy pace 7-8min per mile, much easier to have proper 170-180 cadence than 11-12min mile. Indeed, id add strides to many of my tempo runs in marathon blocks (well, the coach would)Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.
smn159 said:
Yes, spot on - although I suspect that anyone with an easy pace of 7 mins / mile already understand the need for variation!
Indeed, I don't know anyone even with an easy pace of 8/8:30 (truly easy), who doesn't follow a structure. They do exist, I just dont know them. Back to the question, the word 'junk' - usually refers to the middle ground pace, rather than 'what a waste of effort that was'. I know people on 20-25 miles week who have times way ahead of a couple doing 40-50 mostly at same pace. Some of that is talent but some, I am sure, is about structure of training.keo said:
Thanks for the advice everyone. Most of my miles are steady but I blast a 5k (for me!) or hill sprints every now and again as well.
You say you're 'not that serious', but every group can benefit from this varying pace. I know a jogging group who have hill days and fartlek sessions, indeed they do it in big jog groups too. If you have a running/movement school near you, they teach you drills to help you keep your cadence high even at easier paces, mainly heel kicking on treadmill, this was money well spent as really reduces impact on joints.Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff